http://dbd.game/killswitch
The "Toxicity" of DBD
I wrote this in response to someone's question about the game and it's definition of fun. They basically said that it seems for one side to be "fun," it has to be at the other sides expense, meaning that the killer or survivors have a miserable time. They then asked how things will get better if we always focus on the fun WE have without taking the other side into consideration. This is not really meant to be a debate on the comment I made, but more so to see if anyone has anything to add to it.
"There is no solution to this. I watched a YouTube video recently where someone analyzed why Dead by Daylight was considered a highly toxic community. They hopped on and played both killer and survivor, and at the end game chat, they were met with nothing but kind people. This confused them. Then they read online forums on reddit, posts on Twitter, and all things like that.
They deduced that things that are fun for survivor are deemed toxic by killers. The opposite is true in that what is fun for killers is toxic to survivors. Intense looping, consistent blinding, pallet stunning, gen rushing, etc. He deduced that some survivors may choose to get into chases, not to be toxic, but because as a survivor, you truly have zilch to do. You have to repair gens, save people, and heal people. That's really it and this may become very stale very quickly. What else is there except chases to make the game more thrilling for survivors?
As a killer, you have one objective. Stop the survivors from escaping and kill them. To secure these kills, sometimes there will be camping/face camping. Although this is more common among new players, this is still an occurrence in higher mmrs. Tunneling, or chasing a survivor thats just been unhooked, is another way to secure these kills. Bringing Moris is another way to kill survivors, and it adds flare to it with a more stylish animation.
Realize how both sides have things that make the game more fun that are called toxic by the opposing side. I play both killer and survivor decently equally, so I see the frustrations from both sides. Honestly I feel the only way to have a solid opinion on the state of the game IS to play both sides. For example, there was this YouTube video on ways to change underutilized survivor perks to make them more viable, but at the end of the day, they would be way too op, but the creator doesn't realize that because they don't play killer. However, that topic is a whole different conversation.
My point is that it's important to have an open mentality when playing this game and realizing that what's toxic to you may just be the opposite sides style of gameplay.
As a survivor, I've never really been good at chases. I'm a Gen jocky, meaning I repair gens heavily. I'm also super altruistic. My go to build is for the people, lithe, we'll make it, and borrowed time. I have countless times sacrificed myself inorder to help someone else escape. Does tunneling frustrate me? Absolutely. But do I recognize it as a valid strategy? Yes. Is camping dumb? Yes. But is it game breaking? No.
As a killer, I actively try to avoid doing things that I find frustrating as a survivor. I don't camp at all. I hook a survivor and run away, unless the endgame collapse is happening, then I'll proxy camp and try to trade hooks or something. Tunneling is something I also actively avoid. However if I'm walking around and I see someone that was just unhooked because they ran at me, I'm putting them down. I played a game once where a Feng was unhooked and ran at my face. I hit her and downed her. She messaged me saying that I tunneled and it was like "get real. You literally ran at me and I'm not supposed to hit you?" Some unwritten rules truly have no logic. But if I'm approaching a hook as someone is getting unhooked, I chase the savior as opposed to the one who was saved. There's also challenges in dbd that may require Tunneling, such as killing the obsession by any means. Like I just want my challenge done 💁 I also find myself more apt to tunnel if a lot of Gen rushing is going on. There has been several games where three gens have popped almost simultaneously, especially on bigger maps. Sometimes you need to kill a survivor as fast as possible to stop the momentum survivors have. All "toxic" things survivors do also frustrate me. Last night, I got so tilted at this one claudette who was disrespecting my drones as skull merchant. She was letting herself get exposed, but she was so good at looping, I couldn't catch her. So props to her honestly. Ggs to me.
At the end of the day, what people on both sides need to realize is that as killer, the only way to pip consistently is get your hooks and kills. As survivor, you can pip even if you die by doing gens, winning chases, and saving your teammates. You don't have to escape to double pip. (At least you didn't awhile ago. I took a decent hiatus from the game so thus may have changed since then.) If that remains true, killers win by killing. Survivors win by getting blood points.
If both sides were more open minded, this game would have a very chill community, but that's not how the world works. All we can do is be those people who see the big picture, and not say the other side is wrong when we have never been in their shoes."
Comments
-
and here is where things can get toxic: the problem aren't those actions that you mentioned (they are frustrating, especially if done from the beginning, i won't deny this, but they aren't toxic par se), but HOW people react to them (and even if you don't do those things), i lost the count for how many times i received insults, slurs and death threaths just because yes... and mind you, when i'm getting angry it's not because people want to play optimally, but because the LACK of respect that people have toward the others both in endchat (keyboard lions) and in game (tbags and flashlight spam) and the fact that usually those idiots aren't punished (i stopped sending screenshots of the endchat as proof to bhvr cause they essencially ignored those reports...)
i'll make a match more miserable as possible if i ever get those kind of people in my lobby since they are the cause of why dbd has a nasty community and it's generally becoming unfun
2 -
It's that lack of open-mindedness which is the biggest problem with DBD. A lot of finger-pointing is thrown at the devs, but the attitudes of a fair few players is the main problem with the game. Sort that out and people will be surprised how fun this game actually is.
I've been fortunate enough to have some games, both as killer and survivor, against some great players who have also had great attitudes. In one match where I was starting to try the Dredge out (love that killer!) I had one player compliment me and even apologise for a "gen-rush build" they were "experimenting with". I said they should never apologise for doing their objective and that I need to improve my early game, not them alter their style.
It's about accepting that if mistakes are made, the only thing a player can do is learn and improve. Not just rant at everything else being the problem.
5 -
The peak of toxicity of dbd for me is playing against comp teams. The supposed best survivors in the game always blaming their misplays on anything else has pushed me away from dbd just a bit. Even if none of them are the .1% god loopers I am looking for, they are great teams. Only for the end game chat to be follow up with how double speed blight with no gen regression carried me vs them on rotten fields, while they were running disgustingly meta builds. People over rate themselves in this game to extent I deem unacceptable. No game has every upset from the players including "top mmr" players being anything but amazing. There's probably 100 players who can play well vs blight, everyone else is satisfied with being able to loop a legion for 4 min. I've played league for 10 years and have probably never been better than grandmaster, on the flip side dbd is a cake walk filled with egotistical players who can never improve due to their mentality.
PS: Everyone who gives up on hook early is an adc main. If you know you know.
0 -
Killers win by killing, survivors win by getting bloodpoints ?
So... if the game had a 100% killrate it would still be worth playing as survivor ? Ok...
I get that you don't have to escape to have a fun game, but that sounds a little exaggerated. I also don't need to get 3-4k to have fun as killer.
I don't think survivors fun is inherently unfun to killer and vice versa. Toxicity comes from attitude and lack of respect.
Most games I play as killer, I don't use tunneling or camping because that would single out players and prevent them from playing, and I don't find that respectful to them. I do play the rest of the game normally (unless I'm on a silly mood) and nearly always get respect from survivors in response, even after 4ks.
Same as survivor. I don't bring busted things, don't taunt, don't try and make the killer mad, and same again, most times killers are super nice in endgame chat.
Attitude is at the center of the issue in my opinion.
3 -
I completely agree with most of you. The biggest problem is part of the community. Lack of respect and expecting to be overperforming and winning every game does ruin many matches in some way or another, while sweaty SWFs, while sometimes make for excellent moments of chase and thrill, often are or try to be abusive, while killers will try to go out of their way to make a miserable game for some survivors.
I, as others and OP have stated, have a mixed playtime between survies and killers -while I do enjoy more and play a bit more of killers- and whenever I play as any of them I try to be the more respectful I can and adapt my game style to how the match evolves so I can have a chance while also giving one to other players.
Sometimes I will find survivors complaining and ranting when they lose because of their teammates or whatever. Sometimes I won't be able to avoid ranting myself -usually as a survivor- when I find the killer has played in a very boring and cheap way.
Anyway, I can say that as a survivor, I can enjoy matches in which I die if the game has been interesting and we have been able to complete 3-4 gens while doing some wild chases. And as a killer, I might find a match in which 3 or even the 4 survivors escaped if I have been chasing and hooking people in a way I feel it was a tough battle rather than those matches in which I kill all 4 survivors easily when they have done 1 or 2 gens most.
In fact, yesteday I played a match against 2 very good survivors and 2 not that good ones. The good survivors gave excelent, even frustrating chases, while the toher 2 died very quickly, which led me to eventually hunt down the other 2 good ones when the others were already dead. So when one of them was on hook and I was going to hook the fourth, I decided to let them escape and farm points. I didn't find it fun to end it that way and certainly it wasn't fair to them since they played very well and would most likely have won if their teammates would have been a bit better.
I'm not saying with this that killers should do the same, but certainly I think it is more fun and respectful when all the players value how the others are trying, whether the result is good or bad.
1 -
Hey there!
I stand by what I said. I feel like the ultimate way to show how much you excel at this game is to pip and rank up. That being said, and like I previously stated, survivors can double pip even if they die because their objectives are simple and they have quite a few in comparison to killer. I know if i happen to escape and only get one pip, i dont feel ive done my best. Id rather die and dpuble pip. Killers are not so lucky and won't pip if everyone escapes with hardly any hooks.
That being said, the commenter after you mentioned how everyone has a different perception of what a "win" is. Some killers view only 4ks as a win. Some view 3ks as a win. Some view 2k with 2 escape in hatch as a win since keys are strong. (Again I took a decent hiatus so that last part could be different. I haven't even noticed the hatch spawn at all before the endgame, so I need to see if that was changed as well.) Some survivors view escaping as a win. Some survivors, like myself, view pipping as a win. Some survivors view not being downed as a win, or at least that's what all the dcs suggest lol
Again, this all goes back to having an open mind and looking at the bigger picture. 😊
0 -
Seems we all stand by our opinions, go us ! =)
Also, hatch no longer spawns before endgame. I joined a year ago, so I have no idea how far back multiple hatch escapes were a thing. Game sure changed a lot since then haha.
0 -
Hm. It's an interesting debate. Any adversarial multiplayer game is going to have some level of toxicity.
Asymmetric multiplayer more so. But I wouldn't say one side winning makes it unfun for the other side. I've had 4k games as surv that I've actually quite enjoyed. I think the issue is that so many games are totally one sided either gens are rushed or chases end super quick. And losing by a landslide is never fun and that will make people salty.
Depends on the attitudes of individual ppl. I tend to be pretty chill, as killer I often let 1 or 2 survivors go per game if I'm winning hard. And I'll usually gg who I can (xbox player) unless they were super toxic. And when I play surv I tend to be pretty tolerant of tunneling/facecamping, particularly during the late game if killer is struggling.
But some players just live to upset others or simply have little impulse control. For example a friend I play with, lovely person but she has a temper, and loses her ######### whenever she gets tunneled facecamped, (or after a bad day at work just whenever she gets downed 🤣), and has been comms banned before for calling someone a "see you next tuesday" in a message.
I tend to make a lot of friends on dbd, because I'll let ppl go, compliment players who play skillfully and never lord it over someone I've beaten. I also tend to apologise if I play "dirty" to finish a challenge like if I tunnel for an obsession kill or sweat hard for a 4k challenge. And ppl are often pretty understanding. You get out what you put in. I still get the odd toxic person who can't be calmed down but I'd say probably 90% of my interactions in dbd end up being positive.
Side note: I think end game chat is an awful idea. That's when people are at their most frustrated and salty. Boggles my mind that ppl think VC for survs is a bad idea but are fine with EGC.
1
