OhTofu's opinion on the Mid Chapter Update (BHVR is killing the game)
Quintessence of OhTofu's review on the upcoming changes starting here:
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1774914286?t=00h51m30s
Regardless the entitlement of biased killer mains all people who understand how this game works say that the healing change is just horrible for this game. If it come live killers will have to wait 30 minutes in their lobbies for the next easy mode 4k cuz noone will wanna play a boring m1 holding simulator anymore.
Comments
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Yep. All they had to do was change medkits and CoH. Nerfing base healing is unnecessary and overkill.
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I don't understand why Bhvr has not touched the actual healing and repairing "mechanic" or skill checks in years (ever?). Like you can't just keep making everything survivors do take longer... make them more interesting and rewarding. Do something with skill checks. They don't have to be simply missed, good and great. The closer or further away you get from a Perfect skill check could grant different positive and negative effects. Maybe occasionally instead of a skill check you have to perform a quick button combination like with the Skull Merchant's drones. Or other little mini games like that.
They don't have to reinvent the entire system, but simply having us hold buttons for longer times with the same occasional boring ass skill check is not the solution.
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i think at worst, they might increase healing speed to lesser value like 20 seconds instead of 24 to be less extreme. I think if their objective was to make healing slower then they could buffed mangled to higher degree like instead of -20% healing, they could went for -30%. That likely would been a bit less polarizing of a change.
I could see healing going from 24->20 but I do not see them removing it completely.
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Yeah, no one asked for healing itself to get increased, and they’re really screwing us over by nerfing all the good regression perks.
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You run botany and will have more things to do in the game than current dbd which is literally sit on a 3 gen and watch some dude go around kicking gens for 30 minutes. Botany is 16 second heals now which is literally what the currently is on live.
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No self healing means it takes 32 seconds, not 16, since you need a second person. That's true even if they don't change the base timing.
And a lot of people won't bother to heal at all. Resilience, adrenaline, BNP, and bang out gens as fast as physically possible.
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Tofu was always overdramatic but here he is just over overdramatic. I will slap on Inner Healing and Bond they were always good and slam gens now that COB and Pain will be dead. Us solos are still in a lot better place now with all the gen infos. Some just likes to complain and can't see both sides of things. Both killers and survivors got buffs and nerfs, and both sides are complaining lol
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Because the changes are #########
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Well the time it takes to heal with botany will be 16 seconds next patch and then there is gen efficiency loss which is more like 42-48 charges since you would have time finding players 16sx2players+16s to find a player to heal you would be 48c.
The math shows that healing and extending chases are better than staying injured and doing gens. If you last 30 seconds longer in chase because of a additional health state you are looking at 3 players potentially on gens putting 1 charge per second resulting in 30 seconds longer chase being up to 90 charges or 1 full gen with the killer not have any good regression perks. Now if you run botany and don't have to find a player you are losing out on 32c compared to the potential 90 for healing. I think it also takes m1 killers 20 seconds to hit a survivor a second time if that survivor is able to straight up hold w for the entire time. Probably more fair to say a survivor on average will last 45 seconds per health state. If that is the case then it would be 45x3=135c compared to the not healing being 32-48c. Granted this is more of a perfect scenario.
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You will run Nancy's perk along with the 4 other survivors.
Have fun wasting a perk slot.
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Extending chases
Yes, if you run adrenaline, resilience, and bring a BNP you can rush gens and heal with adrenaline.
Your point about extending chases is 100% correct, and why people will pre drop every pallet to avoid taking damage.
And survivors will burn Borgo, The Game, or Garden to make sure they have as much time to pre drop as possible.
24 seconds base heals are a complete waste of time, botany or no. Split up, work injured, bang out gens faster than the killer can snowball.
Edit: autocorrect.
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jeez you highlight the only content creator you want to hear eh
both killer and survivor got butchered and you went on like only survivor is affected.
the only thing i disagree is the default speed of healing, all the other nerf for survivor is well deserved
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You realize if survivor start playing ultra sweaty then they will get the S tier killers every game . Have fun playing vs Spirt, Nurse, and Blight playing like its a comp match with the best add-ons every single game. Bet that will be a blast for survivor players.
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How many times we saw "this will kill DbD" or "This side of the game is dead", etc. Nah, we will all adapt, same as previous meta shake up where most of Survivors were saying the same thing how terrible it is including me in the begging as well... And see? We are all fine and allready got used to it.
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I can't get over the fact that he thinks light-burn is a good thing.
If a killer already has counterplay, adding light-burn is just to make that killer suffer. If they have no counterplay besides light-burn, that is ######### design. Ripping the band-aid off by removing light-burn, then adjusting killers based on how they perform is the right choice.
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It's the same things on repeat, over and over and over.
DbD is dying, players will leave the game, this will create hour-long killer queue times, BHVR is biased and only listens to people I disagree with, this hurts soloQ, this makes SWFs worse, this buffs Nurse and Blight, this encourages tunneling, and camping, and genrushing, and a hundred other things.
If there's legitimate criticisms to be had, it's hard to find in this mess of outrage and hysteria.
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Nah, this update is legit gonna ruin the game for both survivors and killers. Have fun healing for 12000 years and getting gen rushed into oblivion.
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Everytime someone unironically says ''DBD is dying'', the game's lifespan is increased by a minimum of one year.
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I'll bring my rank 1 Self-Care, thanks.
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It's funny how entitled killer mains try to deny OhTofu's 7 years DBD expertise (pub and comp level) predominantly as a killer main.
If this update comes live like this experienced players will just switch to gen rush strategy and will stay injure for the most part of the match.
Unexperienced players (which are like 90% of survivors' player base) on the other hand will just get slaughtered by sweaty Nurse, Blight, Spirit players and now even by mediocre killers on top of this. After some days of such monotonous experience most of them will leave the game and play something else which is more fun than just repeatedly holding m1 and W shift.
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My build on most killers was Bamboozle, Corrupt, Call of Brine, Nowhere to hide.
I don't feel butchered at all at this aspect. I will just switch Calll of Brine and Nowhere to hide for Deadlock or Sloppy Butcher and still 4k 80% of my matches.
Or even more since with new healing times snowball will become much easier.
Not everyone relies on walking around the map and kicking gens to win.
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There is no way the nerf to base healing passes the PTB.
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My issue is why should I have to run 1-2 perk slots JUST to be able to heal? That’s such a waste all because BHVR decided to nerf all forms of healing across the board and for what? Nobody asked for all that
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Because healing is an integral part of the game? Along with running around and doing generators, but I don't see you complaining about picking perks for those.
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The whole point is that the game will suck for solo q, so yes. I completely agree.
SWF will play this way and killers, who already have the mantra that 'tunneling is necessary' will scream it even louder. You can't change how the killer plays, and hard tunneling is where we're headed.
If your options are never escape or play competitively and sweat your balls off, people will either quit the game or adapt. The survivors who are left will be the ones who adapt and can occasionally win games. Mostly SWF, if the changes go through.
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Idk when I see a slug get healed from nothing to healthy in less than 15 seconds THROUGH coulrophobia.... I think the healing changes aren't as bad as everyone says. AFAIK there wasn't even a boon up but I can't check becausethe streamer I watched doesn't save vods from people using his clips/vods without permission and people witch hunting.
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Lmao these same things were said about the game when 6.1.0 released. Something tells me the game won't die.
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Actually, I think it's the other way around. If the change is bad, what will most likely happen is 30 minutes queues for the most painful experience killers have ever had.
You see, nerfs like these hit the top %, yes, but they hit the mid and the bottom ten times harder. Considering a good chunk of players are casual SWFs and solo players, them getting absolutely obliterated at 4 or 5 gens for too many games in a row will probably make them abandon the game or switch to killer, meaning the queues will get even longer and every single game will be a sweatfest.
Chances are new killers will quickly leave as well after a couple of games waiting minutes upon minutes in queue just to get obliterated by competitive SWFs, meaning all the players that will remain are hype-competitive players on both sides.
That's the problem when you balance a game for the top of the top. You strangle your playerbase's numbers making your game impossible to approach as a new player.
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The patch is a massive bump for soloq. Bond is already the best info perk for soloq and you throw on bot for the changes to mean nothing. But what is changed is the fact that the 3 gen bs is dead. The fact that with these changes its pushes hooks more. Those things are good for the game.
Hard tunneling even though DH is weaker so OTR should be used more and proxy camping is nerfed thanks to the regression perks taken out back not rewarding killers anywhere near the amount for camping with gen kick builds. The slowdown change for healing doesn't do anything for killer if they hard tunnel.
Your options are bring a perk. Literally it's one perk. one. whole. perk. slot.
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Self-sustain was the core issue, not altruistic healing. It's their nasty habit of not quite understanding the product and throwing everything at the problem.
You could even argue that they didn't meaningfully nerf med kits. Two heals in a medkit is a problematic med kit. Survivors have never needed more than 32 charges unless their teammates are AFK.
The CoH change is good. I don't really have a critique for it.
But the more I think about the healing changes, the more I think the devs completely misunderstand what the issue with healing is. Being able to self-heal in 24 seconds with a medkit twice in a match will still be extremely strong. The only thing that is changing there is the speed, and again, good players almost never need more than 32 charges+Adrenaline. The game is over by the time you need a 3rd heal. Because of all that, medkit healing is still a better option than altruistic healing. The changes do nothing to make medkits a worse option. Heck, at 24 seconds, altruistic healing is a throw against a good killer. I'll never lose a game on Nurse with a mangled add-on after this update.
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I agree. This game is gonna be miserable for all those casual survivor players who arrive at home in the evening to have few chilling hours in an online game, alone or with their low level friends. They barely see an open exit door already now and after dying match after match multiple times in a row against auto mode killers these playerbase will just abandon dbd and rather go and play phasmophobia.
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Altruistic healing should remain 16 seconds as it already requires two survivors that aren't doing gens, and of course should still be faster with more survivors that are participating in the healing action. I do think that base solo healing should be around 20-24 seconds.
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Best info perk in solo q is Clairevoyance, not Bond. I run Bond in swf and its great to know where my friends are for perfect save timings against camping killers, to see them dropping pallets so I can avoid that area when I get chase or just sit on a gen in killer's terror radius without having to worry that he might catch you off guard as long as you can see your friend being chased nearby.
But Bond in solo q? It's just awful to watch the playstylle of average players who throw 2 god pallets and still manage to die within 30 seconds.
Camping got buffed, not nerfed with new patch. You can't unhook while injured against a camping killer. So survivors will have to heal. Unhooking is also the situaion where many casual survivors giive killes free hits which makes camping even more effective.
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This isn’t true at all. Survivors (competent ones) already push gens as hard as possible. This secret doomsday that’s being threatened has been in the game for years. It’s the same cognitive dissonance that says killers will stop tunneling with more incentives. In reality, killers will tunnel as long as it is the best strategy
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Most competent survivors prefer interactive fun matches and being chased by the killer rather than just sitting on gens.
With dead hard removed and healings nerfed this aspect of the game will suffer considerably. In order to compensate this they will prefer to stay injured, bing toolboxes and smash the gens into adrenaline. That's what my friends and me are gonna do.
However, since most of the survivors are not competent at all they will just give killer free hits, try to heal and still die in the end at 4 or 5 gens.
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It's adorable that you think killers won't just camp a hook when survivor speeds get nerfed.
OTR? You mean the perk that is completely disabled if they hit you when you get unhooked, right? Yeah, having to hit someone twice has truly made tunneling completely impossible. Why not just claim that BT is enough too while we're at it, I need a good laugh.
Or did you mean decisive strike? You seem to not have played survivor in the past year, so you might not be aware that it got nerfed last July.
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Best soloq info perk is bond imo. When in chase you avoid bringing the killer to gens, meaning the perk helps gens go faster. You can reset with your team since you can see their aura from 32m. If they are running the killer near you it tells you what pallets are being used. Bond is just such a nutty perk that is also going up in value next patch since you can't self heal. The perk is insanely good for helping soloq players do resets and I would say it is legit a 10/10 perk.
Yea if killer injures the team and survivors think they are just going to not heal then the killer can punish the survivors by camping the hook and punish them for not resetting. You can already do this in the game right now though. Camping is nerfed because gen kicking perks. No longer are killers getting gigga rewarded for hooking a survivor and proxy hook with nearby gens regressing/ doing a 3 gen. The next patch rewards killers for getting injures and regression is just trash. Would say that it is basically a no brainer to run Botany since mangled without healing speed is 30 seconds for a single heal. Botany reduces the change back to where it is now (20 with mangled)which is basically survivors swapping Prove for Botany and calling it a day.
I can see where you are coming from with casual players. Making mistakes certainly will be more punishing now especially if players are not running healing perk with the killer having mangled. How do you fix that if you are looking to do a meta shift with healing being the new meta?
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When did I say killers won't camp? I'm just saying camping would be weaker next patch than what it is now since gen kicking builds encourage camping and that is dead.
Again you are trying to insinuate that because things are not dead that they are not getting nerfed. Let me ask you this one simple question: is it easier to tunnel 4 OTR players or 4 players with no OTR?
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Sorry but I don't take Tofu seriously when it comes to balancing this game, this is the same person who said and still says that the original circle of healing was totally fine and didn't need a nerf.
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They can just put a 33% self-heal debuff on medkits to make it 24 seconds and keep normal healing the same. Doing it this way also prevents Self-Care from being indirectly nerfed again.
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Yeah sorry tofu's opinions have always been really funny, for one he clasifies slinger as an S tier killer, when the cowboy is a joke to any semi-decent player. He also says killer is incredibly easy and that he win matches because of it but never actually sees that the survivors he is facing make a bunch of mistakes, even during his comp experience you can see him narrate plays that a player did for X reason and say a totally random thing because he doesn't understand it.
I respect tofu as a dedicated content creator for the game for a long time, but I do not take most of his opinions of balance seriously since he has shown time and time again to not be correct.
Edit: just watched the video and it was all I expected, with jewels such as "pain res change was 10/10 it was OP",
Post edited by squbax on6 -
I agree, that is also another way they could handle the healing and medkit changes. I want to way I'm surprised that there was no mention of changes to Self Care in relation to the healing changes, but BHVR seems to be intent on killing perks completely.
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There isn't much substance in that video. He is saying the medpack changes are terrifying (his words) and he is worried about his DBD streaming career because of these changes. Does that not seem like an overreaction at this stage, when it hasn't even been in PTB?
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Seeing as how I don’t run gen perks I have no reason to complain about those. Having to run 1-2 perks just to avoid being removed from the game in 2 minutes is beyond ridiculous when we had an item specifically for that or our other survivors. But both of those are being nerfed into the ground
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Well no, he reflected back on when there was a previous change to the base healing speed (4 sec increase) and the impact that it had on the game. If he was present and experienced that, then he has a pretty good idea of what's to come with this change.
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It's almost like he knows that level-headed reactions don't get as many views. 🤔
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Why is horrible ? because people got used for healing to be OP the way it is ?
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If you need dead hard to ensure a long chase, you aren’t a good player. The game is full of strong tiles and pallets that waste a ton of the killer’s time.
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Oh yea. Try to waste the time of a good blight or nurse. Or to consistently ensure a long chase when it comes to 50/50 on unsafe pallets or TLs.
Or the 80/20s on the new trash tiles.
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Deathslinger was S tier when he was released. Small teror radius combined with quick aim ability was really strong.
Your other aspect isn't valid either.
Tofu is a killer main and manages to win 90% of his games while reading chat 50% of the time. Can you do the same? Do you have the same skill level?
The argument that his survivor opponents make mistakes is valid for everyone. Most survivors in this game are bad and make many mistakes.
Only entitled kiler mains in this forum face 4 man sweaty SWF teams with BNPs and ranger medkits every game.
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