OhTofu's opinion on the Mid Chapter Update (BHVR is killing the game)
Comments
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I do not face 4 man swfs all the time saying that would be foolish,but I manage to get 4ks often,however I do know its not due to my skill nor the killer I play, but because most of my opponents have no idea what is going on, if you let an addonless slinger without slowdown get a 4k you are objectively horrible at dbd.
Still you yourself said it, he manages to get a 90% killrate while reading chat and I do watch his stream from time to time enough to see that the moment he faces people who are not throwing he gets absolutelly clapped, nothing wrong with it, if you face good players without a good killer that is to be expected.
But you haven't still refuted the other arguments aside from just stating they are not valid without explaining, for one he trully believes new pain res is a good perk, new pain res is literally non-existant and if you argue its good it shows a lack of comprenhention on how slowdown works in dbd.
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I'm not usually one for conspiracy theories... However I can totally see this 24 sec healing being walked back to only apply to self healing with a "See, we listened to your feedback" post.
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Tbh I dont care about Pain Res and it was on overrated perk imo.
It only workes fine if you are lucky with hooks or camp hooks and survivors are dumb enough to give you Pain Res right after each other. In most situations the time it took me to bring a surviver to a Scourged Hook was quite long so the slowdown effect without DMS was quite neglectible.
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Exactly, all your points related to pain res are correct and very easy to understand, however in the video you sent he cleary states he considers pain res to be OP, which makes me consider he has not a very good knowledge of how the pace of the game works (at least nowadays), so I will take his reactions with a very big grain of salt.
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I dont think that OhTofu said Pain Res is OP. He said that it's still a good perk. And idk.... I guess it's okay. But it wasnt my favouite slowdown perk anyway.
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He thought it was good on Nurse and to give Artist actual counterplay other than holding w.
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Timestamp: 15:27, " pain res was way too OP" sorry but if thats his opinion on pain res, and based on his opinion on slinger I cannot take his sugestions regarding balance seriously.
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It’s not entitled to want to be able to win against a good team. Bad survivors expecting to win is entitlement.
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I promise you, it's completely possible to win against good teams.
Provided you, yourself, are also good.
Being the worse player and expecting to win is entitlement, after all
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I like how he mentioned he disliked the flash interaction change. I honestly think it's really dull, the flashlight interactions add a bit of spice to the game. The only one I agree with is Flashes not working vs Hag.
But the others are just removing a pretty cool part of the game imo which will I'll be very sad to see go.
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I couldn't disagree with him more on almost every point.
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Basekit altruistic healing speeds, and basekit self healing medkit speeds, are currently the same. If having the same healing speeds are a problem, then people should have brought it up BEFORE the meta shakeup #2 was announced.
It's clearly not a problem for these basekit healing speeds to be the same, and people are just saying "altruistic healing isn't a problem" as an excuse to get the altruistic healing nerf reverted.
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With a basic killer, not named Nurse or Blight, I would argue it’s impossible.
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Wesker, Spirit, Pyramid Head, Huntress, Deathslinger, Artist, Skull Merchant, Knight, Pinhead.
I've seen all of these Killers played against extremely high-level players to an extremely effective degree.
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If this was true, killer mains wouldn’t have bitched and moaned about dead hard for months.
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Or, and hear me out on this. This isn't the only thing that is going to change.
They are obviously trying to make the game more about spreading pressure and going for chases rather than 3-genning, which based on these forums is what everyone wants.
What if they do this change, then the next thing they do is realize that they probably should nerf gen speed perks, and then buff gen progression at base again, Maybe 75 second gens even? And then give killers a mini corrupt basekit, or some other thing so the early game doesn't end instantly. Then survivors can spend less time on gens, and killers spend more time chasing rather than camping.
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Yes, well, that all sounds nice. I'm sure it's going to be very popular when it releases in 2024.
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I don't agree with that. Fast self healing speeds have always been a problem because they completely remove any pressure the killer caused. When at least two survivors are altruistically healing, it puts half the survivor side on hold to heal without doing generators, which means the killer is maintaing their pressure. That's why altruistic healing isn't a problem. However, the medkit self-healing action should logically take longer since a teammate isn't helping with the action and, therefore, allowing them to do other things. Hence, I suggest altruistic healing remains at 16 seconds without a medkit, and self healing with a medkit should take 24 seconds long.
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The same ######### happens all the time to killers, where they nerf some killer thing or buff some survivor thing without doing the other half. Like for example decisive strike. DS used to be 3 seconds, but enduring affected it, so they buffed it to 5. Then eventually they made enduring not affect DS anymore, but didn't revert DS.
Or how about the changes to the mori system while not changing hatch/keys until much later even though mori was how you countered keys?
At the same time though, look at more recent patches. It is obvious they are starting to be more rapid with changing things. I bet you they'll do PTB, make some tweaks, then a week after launch they'll do something for survivors.
They are trying to fix the very things survivors all hate, it is clear from the changes they have made. But they can't "fix 3 genning and tunneling" without making spreading pressure actually viable and giving killers more ways to keep survivors off of gens other than just 3 genning.
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Exactly, healing is integral. So why should I have to run perks so it isn’t a ######### chore to heal someone and don’t even get me started on healing myself or someone else through sloppy butcher.
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Because if the killer is investing a perk to reduce healing you either need to pay for it by taking longer to heal or bring a healing perk of your own to mitigate/reduce the effect of the killers perk.
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Some games have zero COH and zero medkits, and are 100% healing. Those games need to have the healing speed nerf too, as compensation for the massive gen kicking regression perk nerfs.
The question isn't "which types of healing are problematic"? The question is "where should be move the slowdown to, if gen kicking regression perks are getting nerfed"? And the slowdown needs to be moved to every game, and some games have zero self healing.
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2 things.
1st, Self healing is in fact more efficient than altruistic healing, by miles away. Self healing at base, takes 16 seconds of total survivor time. Altruistic healing takes at least 32 seconds (2 survivors spending 16 seconds) plus the time it takes to find them. So they are definitely different. I suspect that what they'll do is nerf self-healing alot but either not nerf or only slightly nerf altruistic healing.
2nd, just because nobody complained about it regularly doesn't mean it isn't a problem. It is obvious that the devs are trying to discourage this massive "gen defense" meta from killers. They have basically killed the last good gen defense perks. The only reliable good one left, is basically deadlock, and even that one is mostly to counter gen rushing. They want to make it such that kills no longer feel like they have to bring all that gen defense, and instead buff their basekit pressure. And the most interesting way to do that, is to nerf healing. That way, kills are more encouraged to focus multiple different survivors to spread pressure. They won't be able to massively defend gens while tunneling someone anymore with pain res + DMS + deadlock. They now will be forced to spread pressure in order to do so.
However, you can't just nerf all the gen defense and expect killers to "pressure multiple survivors" if there isn't actually a reward for doing that. The reality is, they are trying to make spreading pressure actually worth it for a killer. The only real "problem" here is that the S tier killers like nurse blight and spirit are gonna get buffed from this and be stronger. But what difference does that make? They already are insanely powerful against average survivors.
Why not, buff basekit killer pressure spreading, and then NERF the problematic killers? Bring the top tier kills more in line with the rest of the killers, then buff killers as a whole. Similar to their philosophy around SWF and solo queue, but just a bit opposite. I.E. Buff solo queue survivors in a way that gives them access to some of the same information that SWF have, then we can nerf survivors as a whole and....oh wait, they are literally doing that.
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BHVR is buffing basekit killer pressure spreading, by nerfing all healing speeds, regardless if they are self or altruistic.
If certain killers become problematic because of these changes, then BHVR can address that separately.
and your "we can nerf survivors as a whole" statement requires for all healing sources to be nerfed, because SWFs can more easily coordinate altruistic healing with their voice comms.
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How does that logic follow? Killers complained because it is a bs perk that gives you an extra health state.
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Hell no Deathslinger was not S tier, more like B tier. No mobility and slower avg survivor down time than huntress. He was nerfed because his power was 'unfun'.
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It wasn't though.
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They "bitched and moaned" about maps at the same time. Dead hard only makes it worse.
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Hostage merchant made it to live servers. Anything is possible
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His review confirmed my belief that OhTofu is a dedicated survivor main.
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It's an on demand shield/parry/dodge that with successful timing prevents the loss of a health state in a situation that otherwise would've resulted in the survivor going down. Better?
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Nurse can't be brought in line in that way though. They've tried several times, but the reality is she's just not playing remotely the same game as any other killer. She doesn't really respect what could be considered the rules of the game so none of her nerfs really scale her power in ways that feel helpful.
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OhTofu is a killer main, although he does play survivor sometimes. It's kinda is verifiably true that he's a killer main lol. But hey, go on thinking that killer mains can't disagree with the patch/you.
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Yes, the key words being "successful timing". Although even with successful timing, half the time it wouldn't work. If they just fixed that, it would be perfectly fine.
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The issue with this line of thinking is that DbD is not a counterpick game in public matches. You have a useless build as often as you successfully counterpick the opponent. It's just not an effective way to play the game. This is all anecdotal of course, but I don't see many of the best players running niche builds that counter specific things. The best builds are all general guaranteed value.
Yes, if we're getting way out into the weeds for tournament play, you can counterpick to a degree. But that shouldn't be a balance consideration for the devs because that's a totally different game.
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What people like you fail to understand is that perks aren't necessarily the issue, all of the perks that were changed literally affect me in no way because I don't run them, but when you take the most boring aspect of the game which is holding m1 and you amplify that on top of promoting styles that force stalemates in the game it's killing the game , this game is already stale for people who have played a lot and you add nothing new to keep people entertained and increase holding m1 times to top it off, anyone who has played this game for years is fed up and switching it's a no brainer when better games are already out that offer a more engaging experience other than holding a button and calling it skill
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I swear I've seen this guy comment the same thing in like 5 other updates. While I disagree with the base healing nerf, the game won't be dead because of that. Also lmao for thinking being able to completely counter a killer because you randomly brought an item is a good mechanic.
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Luckily bHVR is smart enough not to base their decisions on what popular community members thing and the sway they have other their followers. Watching him look over the changes, skip the rationale part and then ask repeatedly at the audience. What are they thinking, What are they thinking. Honestly a disappointment.
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-"I can't get over the fact that he thinks light-burn is a good thing."
Torches messing up a Nurse or Artist's power is fine but Wraith is not exactly a B tier killer much less an A or S tier killer.
The ability to scratch out Hag traps is what is known as : fair play. Needing an item that she could knock out of your hand was an incredibly stupid design.
So you might want to think about the fact that for 6 years we have asked for a second objective. Totems overall were a failure and I think the devs realized this too.
Healing is the new "secondary objective". Without perks or items two people healing each other will take 48 seconds. That's an eternity if one player is sitting on a hook.
-"Yes, if you run adrenaline, resilience, and bring a BNP you can rush gens and heal with adrenaline."
It's even more simple than that. Everyone brings We'll make it so that every heal after an unhook is very fast.
-"people will pre drop every pallet to avoid taking damage."
This will improve the health of the game so that they don't loop that tile and the connected tile for 40 seconds before even needing to use the pallet.
"And survivors will burn Borgo, The Game, or Garden to make sure they have as much time to pre drop as possible."
Many killers already have their game crash When people use Borgo or Garden offerings - Mine does. But strangely enough when I play Nemesis my game does not crash and I crush people who picked The Game.
-"24 seconds base heals are a complete waste of time, botany or no. "
The meta is going to likely encourage slugging. You hook 1 player three times and in the meanwhile slug anyone else. If you have some time you hook but otherwise you tunnel.
Tofu is just "some guy" at the end of the day. I consider many of his opinions to be wrong - for example I think the old super bloodlust was healthier for the game than current bloodlust. Old super bloodlust meant that when you got chased you were getting hit. It should be noted that the hit was likely to be very soon after the chase started.
Since the devs refuse to balance "stacked" tiles they could give us back old bloodlust that didn't go away when you broke a pallet. It's not like M1 killers are really any better off now than they were before. Killers either have antiloop or they get pallet comp dropped.
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Imo the healing change together with the perk nerfs is one of the healtiest changes this game will have in a long time
Nerfing regression perks and making healing longer means killers can run more varriety of perks without feeling handicapped. There is a basekit way of slowing the game now if you're skilled enough to deal many injuries
For the survivor side this patch makes tunneling less strong. The healing change doesn't matter if the killer goes for only one person and where now the killer can sacrifice 3-4 gens tunneling somebody out and hold the last gens with strong regression perks it won't be as easy if this update gets through
Shifting perk slowdown to a slowdown that's always in the game is a good thing
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Hmm let's hope this one doesn't 🤞
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