lets discuss playing survivor is still going to be ez mode after the new patch
the proposed healing changes doesn't affect your ability to genrush...heck even overzealous is getting a buff and you don't have to waste time healing...i guarantee your matches are going to be much shorter with the new changes and the nerfing of gen regression perks on the killer side. slap on a resilience/overzealous/stake out/fogwise with a good toolbox and you will still be able to listen to music and chill
the medkit and circle of healing changes are also needed...it was always ridiculous that survivors could heal mid chase (and very easy to do all you need is to predrop pallets and heal quickly)
as for killers you still are going to need more chase and aura reading perks than gen regression and try to get those downs as quickly as possible
your thoughts?
Comments
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The healing nerfs ENCOURAGE Survivors to not bother and stick to gens.
Most players aren't comfortable doing that. Casual Survivor players are going to be absolutely massacred by the vast majority of Killers while top-level teams are going to slam gens even more efficiently.
If these changes go through, I'd expect a fair amount of Killer nerfs in the following patches due to a sky-high Kill Rate.
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i never understand how survivors aren't comfortable doing gens while injured (even in the worst case a suped up medkit is better than self caring in the corner/injured also means dead hard usage)
this patch doesn't affect efficient swf teams in the slightest
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I agree with this. I think this is going to be a big issue and make killer even more annoying than before. This community loves to adapt to new changes. I think the survivors are going to run this build: Resilience, PT, Adrenaline, some 4th perk with strong toolboxes. This is just going to make gen speeds even worse than they are now. PT has been meta for the last few months, why hasn't BHVR even mentioned it?
For me, I feel most of my games get to end game regardless of what role I play. I'm a blight/spirit main but have played more of the other killers lately and can see how weak they are. They just don't have the kit to keep up with gen speeds. I worry about how long the killer playerbase will be around for.
I know we have to wait until the PTB hits to actually see how this will work but I just feel in my soul that what I've said is going to be a reality and I worry about it.
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Nothing much will change for those who are experienced with survivor since Resilience + Adrenaline isn’t uncommon.
For the less experienced survivors, it will be an issue since they need the two health states to avoid going down early.
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Try out my Freddy. You will learn to suffer, I guarantee you.
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Solo queue will be dumpstered if the healing changes go through. EZ mode will be playing Nurse or Blight.
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Survivor is not ez mode and will absolutely not be ez mode. This is not 2017.
Having more or less downtime due to the asymmetrical nature of the game =/= difficulty.
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BHVR has to balance around all MMRs.
At lower to mid MMRs many killers don't have all the perks of the game unlocked and full gen rush slow down isn't a thing, the nerfs to their perks are not a huge deal.
Less experienced survivors over-commit to heals. That will probably still be true.
I agree with what Pulsar is saying - 8 seconds of extra healing is a massive nerf for those lower levels, even if higher levels just genrush more.
BHVR has to think about those, if kill rates increase they'll either have to walk back the healing or nerf killers across the board.
If you are a killer main, the thing you should be most worried about are game changes that make it easier for killers at low MMR without changing high MMR, because that's going to result in corrections that will hurt you to get the game back in line.
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So as always. Then, all killers get nerfed and the trash Killers, which there are plenty of them, are unplayable. My Freddy is dead, i cant even use PR+DMS anymore, which benefits my Dream Projection. There is nothing with synergy left for me.
I think we will see more picks for the Top Tier Killers and even more tunneling. 100%
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Exactly. The end result will be: at higher level, there is Blight, Nurse, Spirit and Artist left. The other killers cant win by default against the good teams.
But its my fault: I should have never main Freddy, Pig and Sadako. My favourite is total garbage, I assume I will play much more survivor or switch to Blight as Main-Killer...
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The healing nerfs literally encourages survivors to do gens faster. There's not gonna be a point of healing when it will take so long.
Solo survivor will get obliterated into oblivion because of the COH and base healing nerfs. Top tier survivors will just rush gens and/or play selfishly.
Survivor isn't and still won't be easy mode.
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All this change does is encourage gen rushing because healing takes too much time to bother with
At most people will heal at hook with we’ll make it but otherwise nobody will bother
Get ready for more toolboxes and PT’s
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So how do you plan on winning games vs killers that get easy first hits?
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And then killers run Spirit with Jolt and players find out you need to still heal if you plan on winning games
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Against her yes but spirit is already doing fine
What about MR trapper or MS merchant who already struggle to end chases on injured survivors? They are going to be annihilated while general kill rate goes up because everyone plays meta causing probably more killer nerfs
The strong get stronger and the weak stay the same if not weaker
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But the thing is that's how killer hardcore punish the don't heal and bring gen perks. You run killers that want you to stay injured.
Those killers will be fine because their hits will give good value since you will be healing. You can run stealth perks that punish players for not healing. Gen speed up would counter that but the check is higher tier killers. So at soft cap you can expect a lot of strong killers that require survivors to heal and then survivor builds need to be built around that. That will be make the the low tier killers fine because they can run stealth perks to punish and not have builds built around increasing gen speed since that strat doesn't work for the stronger killers. No reason to make a build around beating the lower tier killers and instead build for the stronger ones. The weak killers will be fine because of this.
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Let's lay out a few basics.
If healing took 60 seconds no one should ever heal. If it took 3 seconds everyone should always heal.
The design goal should be to introduce elements that players have to think about: is this the right idea? On some elements they've made a bad design - opening chests is pretty much always a bad idea if you are just 100% committed to escaping.
Altruistic healing is in a pretty good place. 16 seconds (32 seconds between the survivors) is a worthwhile choice - is that additional health state going to buy you more chase time than you spent healing + the risk that the healing gets interrupted by the killer.
24 seconds is a big change. The circumstances were healing is now the right tactical move have dropped quite a bit. Not only are you wasting quite a bit of time that could be on gens, the 8 extra seconds increase the chances the killer gets to you before the heal finishes.
So what do you do? Try and do gens even faster. Load up on resilience. Take Off the Record or Decisive Strike. Don't even think about healing outside resets or a survivor is running a dedicated healer build (never try for a risky heal).
What probably happens is a large portion of the player base plays the same, killers at mid and lower MMR see a kill rate boost, killers have massive complaints when the next balance patch happens.
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I see the change as basically you run a healing perk as survivor. The meta is shifting to hit n run and healing being more important, and that's very good. The thing is you are right about about always or never healing. The thing that makes the change amazing is it adds skill for survivor. Should you heal is a question you will be asking. What is the tempo of this game and the correct play here is what. If you run Botany Knowledge the healing changes do nothing. Going into next patch that perk is the baseline and I will be looking for things that are giving more value. Empathic Connections already looks to be the soloq meta perk. It's a 10% heal increase and shows your aura to injured survivors.
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This is the issue. Low mmr games and high mmr games already have a pretty clear split. Solo q and weak teams get rofl stomped by killers and high mmr swfs dominate because they genrush so effectively.
Nerfing healing makes low mmr surv so much weaker while not affecting high mmr much. And nerfing regression likewise won't affect low mmr because survs never get gens done anyway, but high mmr killers will suffer so hard because they'll have no viable way to keep up with gen speeds unless they run all the regression under the sun.
That split is just being made wider. So experience will just be miserable for mid/experienced killers and worse for brand new survs, who arguably are the most important group of players because they're extremely important for the growth/stability of the game.
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Don't forget Thanato
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This is exactly correct.
To add to this, with increased healing time you're putting an incredibly high value on a health state. Getting injured is far, far more punishing with 24s base heals.
At higher levels, this means that survivors will pre drop pallets. Anything to delay the first hit is critical of you are already confident you can loop. Pre drop everything knowing that your team is slamming gens faster than the killer can react. This punishes 'M1' or 'weak killers' more and is already the correct play for killers like Oni or even Nemi who rely on snowballing off of it, for example.
If survivors aren't confident in their teammates or their looping ability (or both), it means either more stealth gameplay to avoid the hit, or newer players who just power through self care for an 85 second mangled heal.
So basically, high tier is comp with pre dropping and gen rushing, and solo q is a disaster.
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I don't know about that.
It's one thing to stay injured against a Legion all match
It's another entirely against killers that have powers to land hits. Staying injured is going to end the match faster thats true.
But it can be from the killer suddenly snowballing just as much as survivors rushing gens.
A full injured survivor team can very quickly fall into a losing battle of attrition of picking themself up if the killer ever gets a good chance to slug
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I would like to invite you into the Scratched Mirror Club. While Daddy Myers is garbage at base, on the right map, you will bring shame and ruin upon the survivors. Most fun I've had playing killer since I started this game with Stranger Things release.
Only thing that sucks is the blood web keeps giving me Midwich or RPD offerings as if it knows I want Lery's and wants to make me suffer by not giving them to me.
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I feel like what’ll happen is kill rates reach 68%-70% largely because of solo queue and lower-ranked survivors, and then killers are going to be severely nerfed. Then killer mains will complain about how that role was nerfed.
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To add to this, with increased healing time you're putting an incredibly high value on a health state. Getting injured is far, far more punishing with 24s base heals.
Which the devs want survivors to run healing perks. Getting injured next patch is much worse and healing perks make it not punishing to get injured. Next patch just encourages players to run a healing perk to offset the healing change.
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"BHVR has to balance around all MMRs"
What if they didn't? What if low MMR had rules such that healing would still be 16 seconds, and maybe other forgiving factors for survivors, since at lower MMR the game is more favourable for killers; meanwhile at high MMR the new changes could take place which are supposed to make playing survivor harder.
If the issue is balancing the game around less knowledgeable players and more knowledgeable players, then simply create different experiences for both of these groups, so that each have matches customised for their skill
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Holy victim complex dude. I promise you it isn't that deep.
I don't know how you play but it seems like attitude and mindset are holding you back.
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i see an increase in nurse and blight players honestly...other killers are going to struggle vs this new no heal just genrush mentality
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this exactly and with the unhook you have access to dead hard honestly it will be split up on gens til someone goes down rescue quick heal with we'll make it and back to your gens...not much has changed if you are efficient
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The year is 2026 gen now take 5 minutes to complete. Killers still complaining about gens flying to quickly
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Funny I consider killer ez mode, but I don't play in a SWF so...
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Nah I just see the difference in power between the killers and this gap is getting much bigger.
I would like to see the gap getting more closed.
Im doing well, I win 3 out of 4, but the new nerfs on Gen-Perks is extremely painful on my main Freddy. I love builds which synergyze with the killers power and Freddy needs Gen-Perks (Synergy with his Gen-Teleport) like Oni needs Infectious Fright (Synergy for his ability). I cannot see a synergy left besides Jolt + Surveillance on Freddy.
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and nurse will still be the most op killer in the game ^_^
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SWF is going to be easy. SoloQ will be hit with yet another major nerf, so killrates are going to spike against solos and maybe drop against SWFs.
Man, I would really love to see some reliable charts about MMR, SWF/Solo killrate etc.
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efficient genrushing ia ez as possible even more with newer perks...even bad looping with predrops and windows of opportunity and holding w gives ample time and at the end of it all 3 people on gens 1 in chase is ez mode...killer is a lot harder u have to juggle time more efficiently
do u listen to music while playing killer?
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yeah killer is easier than solo mode i agree with that since survivor depends heavily on your team being efficient
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seems like all lower tier killers have been given up on(no mobility to patrol the map and end chases quickly which is another reason the 3 gen meta became more of a reality...even skull merchant struggles with her 3 percent/5 at most speed boost you could boost her speed to 100 if all 4 claw traps are active but that is very hard to achieve)
edit: i mean against more competent teams...against solo players they are more viable
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do u listen to music while playing killer?I've taken my headphones off a lot when playing killer.
Have played podcasts.
Had conversations with another person while mostly looking away from the screen.
Got up from the keyboard and went to let the dogs outside.
Sure, there are teams that will absolutely crush me if I'm not 100% focused on the game, but not something I run into frequently.
Would never try that as survivor, but yeah, I am a soloQ.
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The big 3 might be more effective though as one of your counters to especially spirit is to not deal with her while injured if you can help it. And nurse your friend cant run up behind her with a item to stall her advances. I can expect survivors choosing not to heal against any of them to struggle. Even someone like wraith can get better downs through hit and run once healings out of the picture. Same for obviously nurse and blight. Any killer which having 2 health states was your only option to survive longer than a few seconds.
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because most survivor players aren't comfortable in chase and need those 2 health states
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"do u listen to music while playing killer?"
Yes. It's really not that weird. And most times even if I wasn't I'm talking to my friends on discord that are louder and more obnoxious than music. If I really have to focus on sound I deafen on discord, mute music.
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major props to both of you to be able to do that...i honestly have to focus a lot more as a killer unless someone is dead before there are only 3 gens left then i just relax and play around(especially if i am not running corrupt and focusing on pure chase builds)
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-"BHVR has to balance around all MMRs."
I've been saying that for years. But you have to remember what Mclean said about the Marth experiments : "we weren't trying to make a balanced game."
That tells you a lot but the reality is that they can't balance high tier play because they can neither play at that level nor really understand it.
You're missing a huge piece of the puzzle here. Chases are "fine" when every member of your SWF has DH and it's active on game start if you get hurt. That goes away with the patch. Chases are going to be shorter and require pallet use much sooner. Even the good players aren't really thinking about how this will change the game.
You can take the most stalwart 10,000 hour player and they have limited options if they have no pallets to work with. Sometimes a 10,000 hour player makes something out of nothing. But your 3000 hour player or less is just "down."
Gen regression is 100% dead. It only works in aggregate. CoB pre nerf only saved you 15 seconds if it was allowed to go for 60 seconds. It's going to save 4 seconds now. Nobody is going to say well this perk is fine with 11/15 seconds of its effect removed.
Overcharge is also 100% dead. Pain Res is likewise Dead. People are saying they will just use Jolt. Jolt was a great combo with multiple Pain Res hooks - that's not gonna happen and you will see that Jolt by itself does nothing.
If this patch happens DBD will become a game where : nobody heals and the generators always get powered. Tunneling remains high. Slugging goes up. Instead of the killers needing gen regression perks - survivors will need both healing perks AND generator rush perks AND exhaustion perks.
Killers will bring Sloppy Butcher - and then what? We know it won't be gen slowdown.
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yes, it will be gen slowdown lol.
Every Killer build post-patch:
PGTW, Sloppy, Deadlock and Corrupt.
It's still gonna be mostly gen perks lmao
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Statistically Nobody is using Pop. It lost something like 75% of its usefulness on average. It went from something like 30% usage down to 0.3% usage.
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No, but it will massively impact the casual teams. Meaning a large portion of the playerbase will be suffering, leading either to them leaving the game (as well as a very large portion of BHVR's revenue) or serious changes being made that still don't impact the best swf teams.
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Okay?
Idc what it is now, it's about what it will be
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Gen regression works in aggregate. CoB+ Overcharge obliterated gens if they were left for 30-40 seconds. Post patch they will do almost nothing so they won't get used.
Nobody is using Pop right now when there are other much better gen regression perks. In times past I averaged 6-9 Pops per game which means I would delay the survivor objective by 2-3 minutes. If I tried using it now I would probably save 20-30 seconds per game. Wow!
-"it's about what it will be"
Pop use will go down from what it is now because without multiple sources of regression you don't stop generator progress.
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Doubt it.
It's going to go up as people look for new gen regression combo's.
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How about less talk and actual proof, yea? Play and record 30 games of you only playing on SoloQ and let's see how gg ez it is.
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