Are they incapable of killing survivor perks?
Throwing balance completely out of the window of weather the changes are healthy or not,my biggest issue with the announced changes is the devs inability of nuking survivors perks the same way they do to killers.
Ruin,pop,Eruption(it was decent before its first buff) were all nuked.
Dms and thana went from universally usable perks to only working on 2 killers(Artist,doctor)(PLague,Legion)
Tinkerer although still usable,lost a huge part of its appeal.I barely see it in my matches as a result
CoB and overcharge barely save any time now,dead aswell
I am perfectly fine with perks being buffed and nerfed as time goes by if the treatment was fair on both ends.Survivors however only lost like 3 perks in the span of years...
Ds an Iron will recieved harsh changes,however they also released Off the record as an alternative that has the effects of 3 perks TWICE.
Spine chill,it pains me that this perk got shafted,however it was innately toxic as it completely countered stealth killers
With the upcoming changes Dh and CoH however did not get nuked.They are still usable in a different sense.
CoH is now a reset point.The perk got a power budget #########,a rework if you will.You will still see it used in SWF to fully heal a team in 16 seconds.
DH still keeps its annoying aspect of not being able to lunge with confidence,it's been meta since release and probably the most complained survivor perk,can't we just remove it already?
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Bhvr is TERRIFIED of making big survivor perk changes. Can’t piss off those feng min cosmetic buyers!
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DH was literally just killed off.
Pain Res. was just buffed from the last patch notes.
COH is objectively less powerful.
...What are you talking about? Yes we've seen a lot of changes with killer perks, but the survivor perks you've complained about have been nerfed.
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DH still keeps its annoying aspect of not being able to lunge with confidence,it's been meta since release and probably the most complained survivor perk,can't we just remove it already?
You know, de facto, who can have it, and who can't. It's still going to be a really trash perk after this change, assuming that they stuck with the 'it deactivates whether it works or not'. Even without that second nerf, I'd still say the perk is not worth using.
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Absolutely agree on every point. Also there are obstacles and pallets on the map that obstruct easy killing and gloating. Plus survivors have to do only 5 gens, where it should be 50 at minimum. Because losing as a killer when you are wasted, or went to toilet for 10 minutes during match is not acceptable!
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"DH still keeps its annoying aspect of not being able to lunge with confidence,it's been meta since release and probably the most complained survivor perk,can't we just remove it already?"
It's literally been killed off. You're only ever gonna encounter DH now if you're tunneling.
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Oh word, does DH automatically deactivate after a timer like OTR and DS?
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Pain Res did not get buffed.Its a rework at best.You need to keep in mind how inconsistent it will become.It only proks once on a different survivors,you need to hook them on one of the 4 hooks.It doesn't reward you for quick chases like before,and it lacks the ability to be delivered it where and when its needed like old pop.
CoH is less powerful yes,but its still like a top 10 perk.Why didn't they leave it be,and murder a survivor perk for once,thats the point of my post.
Dh is weaker,no arguing here but its still annoying to face.They changed it so many times and yet it will still be used.Name a killer perk that received the same treatment.
My point still stands,they are afraid to out right remove a survivor perk from the game,while they don't hesitate to do it to killer.
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Iron will comes to mind.
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Dh is weaker,no arguing here but its still annoying to face.They changed it so many times and yet it will still be used.Name a killer perk that received the same treatment.
That's a pretty unreasonable standard to begin with, but also...
My point still stands,they are afraid to out right remove a survivor perk from the game,while they don't hesitate to do it to killer.
That's probably because the vast majority of killer perks are at least somewhat usable, while the vast majority of survivor perks are downright awful. Survivors don't have that many options to go on, so removing one is way more impactful.
This is something that's been frustrating about watching the discussion on this PTB too: people acting like the nerfs to CoB/OC/PR were basekit killer nerfs when they're perk nerfs, unlike what the healing nerf was.
Yeah, you lose CoB/OC. Slap on Deadlock, or Gift of Pain, or Bamboozle or make a build with Distressing/Coulrophobia or Plaything/Pentimento, or grab any of the other perfectly serviceable perks that you never use because PR/CoB/OC is so incredibly over-efficient.
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With the new DH the counter is to just tunnel.
If you hit the unhooked during the free BT there is no more DH for the chase and rehooking them isn't going to give another use.
If you chase the unhooker, the unhooked gets to heal and STILL has DH. And when you down the second survivor you just gave another survivor DH.
When playing killer just tunnel. It is almost always the right move.
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"Pain Res did not get buffed.Its a rework at best.You need to keep in mind how inconsistent it will become.It only proks once on a different survivors,you need to hook them on one of the 4 hooks.It doesn't reward you for quick chases like before,and it lacks the ability to be delivered it where and when its needed like old pop."
It did get buffed specifically from the last notes, but yes it is more of a rework.
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You will need to kill a survivor at some point.The perk also does not deactivate after a minute,or conspicuous action,so if they have it you will still encounter it.Even worse you will expect it less,becoming more effective as a result.You just spare killers from encountering it in their first two chases.After that its back to the same thing.
Its such a frustrating perk to face,litteraly prevents you from downing survivors as quickly as possible in a fast paced game,reiterating my main point that they can't just mess it up, like ruin a perk that went from the most used perk in the game to a tragedy
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This isn't intended to be a commentary about OP or anything, but I think the average killer player tends to be extremely vocal while overestimating their own abilities. There may be a simple reason that killer slowdowns got nerfed harshly relative to some other changes: killer slowdowns were affecting games more, especially at the top end. I have as much data as next person around here, which is to say, none. But if we're trying to find a reason, that's a good place to start. And we have to remember that many killers find a 70% win rate to be a balance issue not in their favor. If we're trying to look at this objectively, being able to stall out a game indefinitely with gen kick perks wasn't healthy.
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Post edited by DangerScouse on2
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You brought up a very good point,and you also did not use it as an insult towards me so you have my respect.I fully agree that gen kicking perks were toxic for the game.Holding a 3 gens like your life depends on it is indeed obnoxious ,and i'm glad it got addressed. I personally never used No were to hide,Call of Brine or Overcharge,i dread kicking gens,but their changes do strengthen my point.
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DH is definitely dead.
Pain Res got buffed from the PTB.
CoH got its main strength completely removed.
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You can't use Dh in your first chase,any chase after thats if fair game.Just like its first nerf,people are overeacting,good players will still get value out of it.
Pain res did not get buffed.They just chose not to kill it,it's definitely worse than it previous iteration.If the devs consider it a buff just revert the changes then,i'm sure you wouldn't mind.
CoH is still strong.It doesn't break the game anymore,and its hard to use in solo queue,but swf will abuse the heck out of it.
It also feels like you didn't read my post.Never did i mention pain res in it,nor is it an attempt at answering the injustice being commited,devs can't just alt f4 a survivor perk for good and it shows
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Self-Care.
DS.
DH.
MoM.
We'll Make It.
OoO.
Should I keep going?
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iron will, dead hard, decisive strike, self care, spine chill..
and also a bunch of the killer perks you mentioned arent even 'dead'.
pgtw - still a good perk. the only reason people dont think so is because theyre comparing it to old pop, which was undoubtedly one of the best perks in the game
tinkerer - legit the same thing as it used to be. If it helps you stop 1 gen, it has already served its purpose. not dead
eruption - still a decent perk. its a good substitute for m2 killers who cant use jolt. like pop, people call it dead because theyre comparing it to its previous version
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It is so difficult for you to argue your point that you are literally bringing up ancient perk changes.Self care,We'll Make it and OoO were changed over 5 years ago,thats an unfair arguement,that once againt overlooks my argued point(I specifically stated in recent years).MoM triggering on every hit was game breaking,even bringig it up as an argument is disingenuous. The only time that perk was good was when it broke the game,it wasn't a perk used over a long period of timed altered to irrelevance for the sake of change.
Ds was brought up in my original post(along with Iron Will),but to further discuss it,they gave survivor base kit bt as a safety measure,and added off the record in the same patch,a perk serving a similar purpose,better in some scenarios and worse in others.The perk also still keeps a niche use case.You can tank a bit with basekit bt,use Ds and still have deadhard,effectively tanking 3 hits for free,so i would say its far from dead.
Dh is literally just being discussed and altered,the changes are not even final,and i guarantee you it will see more use than ruin,cob and eruption combine in 2 months.
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That's probably because there aren't really lots of broken, seriouly overtuned survivor perks that were released in recent years.
Aside from the first COH, which got nerfed two times and now a third, i cant think of any seriouly overtuned survivor perk that was released recently that could function by itself without needing a full build or using specific items.
Most new survivor perks are either weaker versions of existing perks or very situational ones you can maybe get some value if you play in a strict way.
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Even if ######### like DH, COH, IW, or DS are significantly worse than before, survivors can still do just fine without them and finish the gens very quickly. Killer however, cannot slow down the game without good gen perks. That’s the problem with the update.
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