What are your thoughts on the post-PTB Pain Res?
Personally, I don't see myself using it anymore, even with a ever so slight buff. Getting a 20% gen regression 4 times (sometimes less then four) just doesn't seem like a good use of a perk slot for me. Maybe if it were 25-30, perhaps, but as it stands, i can't justify using one of four perk slots on it.
Comments
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It’s 25%, not 20.
I think it’s still going to be pretty good actually. You won’t be able to get multiple uses off one survivor anymore, but if you hook all 4 you get an entire generator’s worth of regression. That’s not bad at all.
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it'll still be good.
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25% of a gen is 22.5 seconds worth of progress, times 4 is 90 seconds which is a full generator.
Grim Embrace blocks all of them for 40 however that’s not really equivalent to regression so it’s not really fair to just add these together.
Assuming NWO has 4 tokens (which it would if you triggered Grim Embrace), that’s 60 seconds of no exit gates.
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Grim embrace is pretty garbage, because by the time you get the effect, you probably already lost or won the game anyway. Additionally, you have to make sure the last person you chase and hook isn't your obsession. If it did some kind of obsession switching, and the aura reading lasted longer, i'd say it would be much more usable. Because right now, its hard to activate, and when it does, all the survivors can just hide and wait out the timer.
When you hook the obsession, another survivor becomes the obsession. Then, when 4 hooks have been done, it blocks all gens for 40 seconds, and then reveals the aura of the obsession for 15 seconds, and makes them scream periodically every 10 seconds. That way they can't just hide it out. And basically what this perk does is guarantees you a single chase where no gen progress can get done.
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It got the compensation I wanted so I'm happy with this change. Before total 60% regression was pretty garbage but now it's 100% total making where survivors have to do a 6th gen pretty much. On top of that you could use NWO and Pop along with it. Overall if they had to nerf pain res this is the nerf I would want.
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It’s dead. The perk was already not great because it relies on rng. Now it has even more BS conditions attached.
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It’s terrible for the same reason the DH nerf is. Limiting how many times you can use a perk is a terrible way to go about nerfing, especially when both perks incentivize tunneling now.
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The problem with grim embrace is that typically everyone is hiding once it happens and the only thing left to do is camp the person on hook.
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It's 25% but I think they could increase the amout of scourge hooks so you would almost always get value. 30% regression though would be fine too.
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My mistake. I thought it was bumped from 15 to 20
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If I am running any gen regression it'll be pain res still, I just simply don't care about any other and I am going to get all 4 hooks.
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It shouldn't be tied to scourge hooks anymore. Its pretty telling how bad regressions getting when people are pointing to jolt as a great regression perk. We are going to unironically start seeing people say oppression is actually super strong soon.
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It's pretty decent, 25% regression is nothing to sneeze at that's pretty big. Still not gonna use it though, never used it before, not gonna start now.
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25% is at least not bad per say, but only 4 tokens? And still a scourge perk? Doesn't seem worth and the synergy with DMS is now mostly gone. The pick rate will go down substantially.
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It's still worse than Grim Embrace and no one uses Grim Embrace, so....
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Really good change. If you can proc it in 3 of your first chases it should really make a large impact on the early game(3 chases is the same regression as 5 on live). Think pairing it with CI or NWO could be really nice. Killer is at their weakest in the early parts of the game so this perk will be staying in all my builds. Only concern with the perk is hitting no gens is gunna suck. Guess that'll mostly come down to how it plays when it goes live.
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Fair enough, but point still stands that, its hard to activate, and its easy to hide out the duration.
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We should get a token each time a gen pops
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Better than trash we got in PTB, nowhere near any old decent regression perks we had in past.
So yeah people still has to use it but won't be strong or anything, it's just usable than any other wastes.
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In a ironic twist they may actually have made the perk stronger then before.
You need 7 scourge hooks of current PR before you surpass the vallue of the 4 hooks from the new one. And i would say by the time you have 7 hooks you should already have won so what does it matter at that point?
More important then that is that the vallue is more front loaded. The early game is the point killers struggle the most and there is no denying the early game of new PR is stronger then the old one.
2 hooks for 50% vs the old 3 for 45%
The only time time new PR is weaker then current is if you hardcore tunnel one person so all the people who say it's dead are really showing their colors
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It should not be a scourge hook anymore. Many times i've lost value of scourge hook simply due to the hook placements. So i probably won't be using it.
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I found that PR was only viable on killers that already benefited heavily from AGI - like trapper. In short you needed a perk to make sure you were going to get to use your perk. That's messed up.
PR is dead and nobody is going to use it unless they forgot to read the patch notes. To balance out being once per game you would need to make every single hook be a scourge hook AND the effect would need to be something like 40% regression.
There is no scenario where this is a buff to PR except in someone's XML spreadsheet fantasy world.
PR was one of those perks that worked well when backing up another gen regression perk. It worked very well for example with Jolt. You down someone working on a generator who was hurt and the generator explodes. You hook them and the generator explodes again. Removing 15% of a 90 second geneator does basically nothing when the survivor can just hold the button and keep working across the map.
Lest you forget this perk used to show the killer which generator you were working on. Essentially this is an extension of the 6.1 rework and is the final nerf to the perk (because nobody is going to touch it after this).
-"You need 7 scourge hooks of current PR before you surpass the vallue of the 4 hooks from the new one "
Actually you only need 2 hooks because you can't use this perk more than once per person. If I hook meg twice on the same hook then I get more regression now than I will post patch.
What you seem to be ignoring is that DBD is in a state where you must tunnel one player out of the game before the survivors break your 3 gen. You hook the same player three times and what did you get for 2/3 hooks? You got nothing.
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And here it's fair to point out my last sentence again
The only time time new PR is weaker then current is if you hardcore tunnel one person so all the people who say it's dead are really showing their colors
For the people that don't use the cheese strat of tunneling this is at the least a side grade and arguably a buff.
If you do the actuall optimal strat of hooking survivors in order of A,B,A,C,A you have the exact same gen damage, you have it earlier and you don't have to lose a scourge hook for the killing hook on A anymore.
Despite popular believe it is possible and sometimes even more beneficial to turn the game into a 3v1 asap without hardcore tunneling
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-"For the people that don't use the cheese strat of tunneling this is at the least a side grade and arguably a buff."
Survivors tunnel generators and this forces the killer to tunnel one player out of the game. It's not a cheese tactic - it's the only way to catch up because the survivor objective is much shorter to achieve than the killer objective. The only time this is not the case is when survivors massively screw up.
-"If you do the actuall optimal strat of hooking survivors in order of A,B,A,C,A you have the exact same gen damage"
And the game will be over before you get player C hooked unless you are playing Nurse/Blight. The player you had hooked will have their adrenaline kick in and then all 4 players escape.
-"Despite popular believe it is possible and sometimes even more beneficial to turn the game into a 3v1 asap without hardcore tunneling"
Why don't you show me your tactics in action with some riveting Doctor play. He's "so good" in chase and has "amazing" slowdown. Not to mention he is completely shut down by Shift+W. I hope by the way you can read the sarcasm.
The devs made the only perks that work for gen regression be kick perks. So that means you need to hook your quarry next to the gen you want to protect and stand there as it ticks down.
The devs could change the game at any time by giving killer Deadlock base kit. Make the perk by the same name extend the effect by +30 seconds. It's the very least they can do considering survivors have tunnel protection base kit from BT.
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Not worth it. I will start running Pop before I use Pain Ressonace again. At least there's a chance I will get more use out of it. I'm kicking gens a lot anyway.
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I'll definitely be using it. Pain res + jolt is great combo for m1 down killers, it's near passive gen regression which feels great. So many damage generator bp as well.
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How are you getting a 100% scourge hook proc rate on every down? Camping the hook and forcing trades?
This is like saying autodidact is the best healing perk because on paper what if you get skill checks back to back to back and have full stacks in the theoretical best time? That's not even getting into things like timing of gens(you hook someone and the next highest gen is at 1%. Goodbye token!) Swf on comms calling out hook locations and avoiding those to make it significantly harder to get value, as well as prioritizing sabos.
It's a complete rng perk with at least 2 direct counters available to even non swf (avoid the known scourge hooks + sabo them) with comms making those counters even stronger, the perk then also has a timing component to it that the killer has no say over. Add in edge case scenarios like the only available hook to hook an on death hook survivor mid game and losing one of your four hooks permanently and the perk has yet another scenario where it does not shine.
Now if it wasn't tied to scourge hooks or killers had the ability to move the hooks at will? I would completely agree with you that it's very solid but the RNG piece completely kills it for me at least with everything else considered
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The amount I,am seeing of survivor mains trying to convince killer players this is still a decent perk is unreal.
If it truly was a buff, you would not see so many survivor players trying to convince you otherwise for one.
Let's just, and at least be honest & respectful with each other
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Hard to say.
Overall my first impression is still "meh". At best you get 4x 25% regression which would be 90 seconds of worth out of the perk. This would be good if there wasn't a slight issue: RNG can mangle your efforts and there is always the possibility of you missing a survivor. This makes it pretty unpredictable.
I would have loved it if the tokens recovered once you hooked every survivor once. Kinda like an inverse BBQ.
Overall this feels like a nerf. The math alone does not support this: At best you get 8 x 15% = 120% out of your Pain Res right now. This assumes that there are 4 instances where you are not able to use the Scourge Hook because [reasons]. Out of this version you get 4 x 25% = 100% if everything adds up. That is a ~16% nerf to the perks which is not that much on paper.
However you take a huge risk here...
What I would consider thou is the possibility to use your Scourge Hook not at the start of the game but rather during the middle when you are down to 2-3 generators. Maybe there is value here if you adjust your playstyle.
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Honestly I feel people really exagurrate the rng of scourge hooks, It is possible to get screwed but in my experience and from what i watched people play with them getting 80% of your hooks on scourge hooks really isn't a big estimate.
Sounds like a kind of confirmation bias to me, people remember the one time they didn't get a scourge hook much more vividly then the 5 games before where it never was an issue
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It may actually be stronger now, but only because it's a scourge perk. Take that away and it's definitely worse.
Current PR takes 7 hooks to inflict 105% regression.
New PR will take 4 hooks to inflict 100% regression.
However, you need to hook more strategically, and choose the right hook at the right time based on gen progress to maximise the regression. If it triggered on any first hook, you lose that choice.
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Your assuming the proc hits a gen with 25% or more it could proc on a gen with 10%-15% and you still lose a token.The perk itself already has a rng factor. The chances of you getting the full 100% regression are pretty low plus it becomes a dead perk once the tokens are use.
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If the gen with the highest amount of progress has less then 25% you're generally in a good spot. Cause that means survivors are doing gens one at a time and not splitting pressure or they are not doing gens at all.
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Doesn't take away the fact that sometimes you lose all value due to hook placements. Agitation is almost needed sometimes to even make it to the hooks.
Like i said i won't be using it, but im planning on going 100% survivor at least for a while. See how the game goes with the new stuff.
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In the current meta of gen rush where when you got the first hook you lost 2 gens (that's the default for nearly 70% of games or even more) new PR is nothing.
Many say that new PR is strong at the start. How are you think?
Let's see the following situations:
1) You got the first hook and 5 gens left. This means that 1 or 2 gens a 50% or more in progress. Probably third is near 30-50.
That's a good start but you need a fast second PR hook.
2) You got the first hook at the same time when 4 gens left. Then 2 gens near 30% and you got nothing. Because on the second hook only 3 gens left - and it's a gg for survs.
3) You got the first hook and 3 gens left. New PR can't help you. Because probably in that time top gen has near 20%. So you still get nothing from PR.
Currently, the first situation is very rare. Because usually, you start the game with 3 gens left. And new PR can't help you. Even with 25%.
Killers use tunneling not to get the best of the PR, only because tunneling in most cases is the only option to slow down gen rush.
So PR is dead and joins Eruption in the grave. CoB - joins them too. Overcharge still can be useful but probably will be dead too.
Removing self-healing in CoH is good. But 16s for healing another means that current 8s healing will be there too. So playing vs premade still be the same pain in the ass.
DH after self-hook is #########. If you unhook yourself you got clocks. So now it will be clocks + DH. bhvr still believe that there 3-4% chance to self-unhook? But it's almost 50/50. And makes the chase a lot longer in the situation when only 2 survs left. It means that they will be successfully escaped.
Charge after unhooking should have a cooldown of 2-3 minutes. Because you can get 1 charge in the early game and save it to the endgame. This is bullshit. So in the premade party, you can have a situation when all of them have DH and cuz healing still 8sec for them there is no problem with blocking and stomping backs.
And bhvr still doesn't see that only surv can body block in their game. And they don't do anything in that way. Why body block works only in one way? Why it's a win only for surv?
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There is gonna be a more tactical use out of new PR. Like, getting a down pretty fast means that some gens might not even have more than 25 % progress. So what people will do, they'll keep the Tokens until midgame where it's most important. And having 4 x 25 % regression in midgame is really strong.
And as someone has mentioned, PR + Grim Embrace + No Way Out is gonna be quite a decent combo. Once you've used up all your PR, Grim Embrace now blocks all gens for 40 seconds which is additional slowdown, and after that, the Exit Gates are blocked for 60 seconds. Adding all that together can result in a huge amount of slowdown.
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me too , 4 uses during an entire match is a joke IMO + brand new parts still exist + is still a scourge hook perk that basically still relys on luckyness with the hook spawns .... yeah the perk is no longer useless but is still bad right now..
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It’s worse than grim embrace, because it has the extra RNG of scourge hooks.
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On paper it sounds great but in reality you won't see much use of it in most matches. Half the time a gen will pop right before you hook, congrats you just wasted a token. Other times you won't get the full 25% unless you're patroling a 3/4 gen situation and are aware of current progress. Even then the added requirements will set you back time wise, not including potential bodyblocks, sabo's or Scourge hook placement.
In my mind, i'd be better off with a less situational perk like Pop and a gen block perk such as thrilling tremors.
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I super dislike the change. It's far too situational now. Now you have to hook specific survivors at specific hooks during specific times in order to get value. You could hook a survivor with no gens being touched (or barely progressed) and you are just SOL with eating one of your hook chances.
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Still a meta perk for me, think im going to be running Corrupt, Deadlock, Pop and Pain Res.
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It's still good. Its increased value per hook is equivalent to about 6 Pain Res hooks at its current value. Pair it with Grim Embrace to synergize the tokens and you have more than enough slowdown to win.
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This is also assuming your one hook is at a time that you can get maximum value for it. If you use your 1 hook on a survivor when gens aren't touched or aren't touched beyond 25% you get a much lower return.
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I think some people underestimate how strong 25% is and how much value that brings in real-time to the match. I think it will still be very strong/popular.
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We don't really like it as there's an annoying number of factors to use it well. But we'll see how it goes as 25% regression where it's needed is something worth testing.
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Pain Res has no place on my killers anymore. CoB and Overcharge are dead. I'm actually considering Pop which speaks volumes about the state of regression perks. We're gonna hit a point where Oppression and Grim Embrace are our best options if this keeps up. Wouldn't be surprised if Deadlock is the next target.
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It's a joke of a regression perk, shouldn't worry about it on the survivor side, even if its in play it won't affect you at all.
From the killer perspective it's sort of like septic touch, so it exists I guess?
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I think some people underestimate how much value people get out of the current gen regression perks. And people forget that pre-nerfed pop used to regress 25%, and gave way more uses per match.
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A much needed revert. Still useful and will still be used a decent amount, just no longer meta.
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