Focus Less on Penalizing Camping and Tunneling...
...and more on making other playstyles legitimately better or more fun.
If there's an issue I've seen with discussions about how to discourage camping and tunneling, its that they don't cover how leaving a hook or chasing a new target should be rewarded and encouraged, with more of an advantage given to the killer over the alternative which is camping and tunneling.
A lot of killers declare they'll still camp and tunnel regardless of how many anti-tunnel perks survivors are given (take the reaction to the new DH for instance), so BHVR needs to focus on making the other options killer's have more powerful while making tunneling and camping even worse for a killer to the point where in situations where it is not needed (5 gens remaining, etc.) actively detrimental.
I don't want people to focus on getting rid of camping and tunneling for good, because there are moments where it is the best option for killers. But sadly, it has become the go-to playstyle for so many, without them even trying other ways to put pressure on survivors.
I do think camping and tunneling should be penalized, but in that case, killer's need to be given alternate options that are more prominent and positive.
I've seen many good suggestions on how to eliminate camping and tunneling, but very few for boosting other playstyles.
One recommendation I have is giving killers a kind of base kit Monstrous Shine that affects all hooks:
If a killer leaves a hook AND gets into chase with another survivor, then the sacrifice process will accelerate by 15% (which is 2nd Tier MS speed). A killer MUST be in chase for this to work.
Another way of doing with would be make it so the sacrifice process accelerates from 1% to a max of 15% depending on how long a chase is. Maybe the percentage increases by 1% every 5 or 10 seconds.
And, if a killer stays next to a hook, the same effects happen but backwards. The sacrifice process decelerates. Actively making it at least a hint worse for the killer to camp.
Maybe this isn't a good suggestion, and it only really affects camping, but maybe it's also a start.
Edit: In hindsight, these numbers would have to be bigger lol
Comments
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I like the way you think, but I think your specific example does nothing.
1, if killer is not (proxy) camping or tunneling, then there's no reason to leave survivor on hook. The sooner you get him down, the more effective time is the game 4v1 instead of 3v1.
2, even if it did something, 15% is just not that much. In exteeme case that would be 51s instead of 60s. Realistically 55s instead of 60, because travel time, search for survivor, distance from hook, possible survivor pre-run, etc. Those 5s are a lot for camper (that will not get that) when all 3 other survivors will give those 5s to gens, but are absolutely meaningless in case of hook not being protected.
Overall, I think that the solution of this problem crashes for a long time with meaningful anti-tunnel benefit, that can't be abused and that is beneficial enough to be worth it more then tunnel, but still not OP for killers, or not large enough to always just end the game on it's own (and I am starting to believe there's nothing that could solve this issue).
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I mostly agree with what you're saying, but...
"1, if killer is not (proxy) camping or tunneling, then there's no reason to leave survivor on hook. The sooner you get him down, the more effective time is the game 4v1 instead of 3v1."
I agree with the first part, but I believe that if there were more pressure for one survivor to go for a save instead of doing more progress on a gen, that might mean something. But that brings me to your second point...
"2, even if it did something, 15% is just not that much. In exteeme case that would be 51s instead of 60s. Realistically 55s instead of 60, because travel time, search for survivor, distance from hook, possible survivor pre-run, etc. Those 5s are a lot for camper (that will not get that) when all 3 other survivors will give those 5s to gens, but are absolutely meaningless in case of hook not being protected."
This is where I'm in total agreement with you. 15% is basically nothing lol. I'll admit I got too caught up with not usurping Monstrous Shrine when there is no reason I should have lmao. The percentages for both when a killer leaves and when a killer decides to camp would need to be much larger for there to be any substantial value.
I think there are things that can be done to help with this issue, but they'd have to look pretty drastic.
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Or, stop "penalizing" it, but rather outright remove it through whatever means.
There is literally no way to properly balance "other strategies" when all the data is largely skewed by the all those tactics, what we should do is literally just removing both camping and tunneling THEN try to balance things after that.
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I would never support removing it entirely because there are certain points in a match where camping or tunneling are legitimately the ONLY option a killer has. Lets say you get your first hook with 2 gens left, you maaaayyyy wanna camp if you really want a kill or to force some kind of pressure somehow. There could basically be endless examples like that which usually stem from a killer having an extreme disadvantage, which warrants the killer using extreme playstyles to make up for lost time or pressure.
There would be no way to remove camping or tunneling from the game without making survivors INCREDIBLY strong in an OP way. Plus, I don't think its in the game's or dev's best interest to try and remove playstyles so long as they aren't technically exploiting glitches and such.
I think "camping and tunneling" on their own are fine, and sometimes needed, but I'm NOT okay with "Camping and tunneling because its apparently the most efficient strategy from the get-go, and I've deduced this without trying any other playstyle".
That is what I think the killer community needs to get away from, and the game should 100% support them trying to get away from it and actively reward them for doing so, and it should discourage them for camping and tunneling SPECIFICALLY when they are not in a position of extreme loss with little to no advantages.
If you ask me, camping and tunneling should be provoked into being the last option, still and option as sometimes it is warranted, but the last one.
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And how can BHVR notice that "problem" of making those things ONLY options? only by removal of it.
Let the survivors be OP, make killers ACTUALLY quit, that IS the only way to fix those things.
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Thanks for trolling
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The problem is that the game aims to be a balanced 4v1, so it'll always be much easier for a killer to win the quicker they turn the game into a 3v1. I agree ideally other strategies should be rewarded, but I can hardly imagine a strategy that would be as effective as killing a survivor as early as possible, without the strategy being absolutely OP.
I do like your anti-camping idea, but really I think people who camp are doing it either to tunnel (so they won't stop doing it unless tunneling is punished or something else is better) or because they enjoy making people miserable more than they like winning the game.
(On the other hand making playstyles "more fun" than camping can't really be that hard :P)
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I agree with you, and yeah obviously killing a survivor ASAP is the best strategy, but that would ideally be done with something more dynamic than camping or tunneling.
If someone is doing it to make others miserable that's fine, and they can do that if they wish, but right now camping/tunneling seems to be an efficient way to do that AND win the game. The second part is the problem.
I do think there would be a way to make other strategies that would be as effective as killing a survivor as early as possible, without the strategy being absolutely OP. Things would just maybe take some thought.
I think it would be easier to boost strats that aren't camping or tunneling while also making camping and tunneling inefficient in certain scenarios where it isn't needed than trying to eliminate camping and tunneling all together.
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Yeah, I don't think it'd be possible to forbid camping & tunneling altogether anyway, even if the devs wanted to (which I agree wouldn't be a good idea, camping, tunneling and slugging all have their place in the game and aren't always bad or unwaranted).
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I just don't think either side should have a certain playstyle taken from them 👍️
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