So survivors nerf update became killer nerf update? KEKW
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Survivors got nerfed in their most crucial point: Solo-Healing.
This was always the bane of most Killers existence: Hit a survivors once after some looping, hit them again only to eat Dead Hard, have a person bodyblock and watch all your healing getting undone by a green med-kit with beef inside in 8 seconds. This made playing certain Killers like Wraith, Dredge and other very miserable.
Without those insane med-kits and cycle of healing survivors will now wast much more time and have to coordinate much more to get their healing. Don't forget that solo-healing also always meant that you could do it on your own terms. This is gone now. You get one solo-heal and then you are on your own.
Sure some Killers perks got gutted.
However you maybe now have to look for a different tactic to play the game and not just "defend your three generators". That was the reason Killers got +10 seconds on each gen and some faster actions recently.
If you want to punish solo-healing even more, maybe think about adding Sloppy Butcher or other mangled effects back into your kit. Med-Kits still take a 33% penalty to their healing speed which is roughly equal to a 24 second heal. Now add some sloppy to it and you get a pretty good value. Most Killers have add-ons for this.
Please stop acting as if they buffed survivors somehow. They only added some value to Circle of Healing. You still get a win out of this: Solo healing with the current cycle takes about 21 seconds. The new circle will another survivor to heal you within ~8 seconds which results in 16 seconds in total (2x8) plus the time they take to find each other without discord (+2x). Now to the math how long they would have to run around to beat the new circle: 16+x2 = 21. This anything over 2,5 seconds of time required to find each other is a win over the current version.
I am overall quit happy with this patch. Even thou I think that Call of Brine and Overcharge were a bit overnerfed.
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DH is technically weaker but I don't think it will necessarily decrease its usage or effectiveness much. I don't think I've had someone successfully DH me more than twice in a game in a long time. I could see this somewhat encouraging camping now though.
Billy change is nice
Medkits being weaker for self heal is nice but I think even altruistic could have used a slight nerf. Make healing, say 20 seconds instead of 16 or 24. The addons for medkits seem like primarily buffs with a few outliers. I always hated them removing BP bonus options. Those were always a nice touch to me (such as BBQ).
Circle of healing feels like a lateral move rather than a nerf. Yes it prevents self healing which is good but having 8 second healing without any other buffs is too fast even without additional buffs. Seems like a nerf to solo play and a buff to SWF which is the exact opposite of what I'd want as far as survivor balancing to go. Really dislike this change.
Pain resonance change makes the perk essentially dead. It already had limiting conditions for it that now its even more limited (hook each survivor one time on specific hooks and you want to time when you get your one hook). Such a bad change. You could get a scourge hook and it trigger with it functionally doing nothing for you if gens are barely progressed. Hate this change
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I will just move from accidental tunneling to doing it on purpose. It's not like survs will kindly do their gens slower while I make sure to rotate my chases between them.
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Stop using "solo" as a synonym for "silly". If the player is inexperienced/silly/useless, this is not a solo problem. This is his personal problem.
"No variety on survivors"? Bro, u must be kidding. I wish i have 10 build slots to quick change all my builds. 4 boons, chase build, cleanse totems build, lockers build, super speed healing build, genrush build, altruism build, stealth build, second chances build, midchase disappear build, anti-camping build, sabotage build. Do i need to continue? Big truth is most survivors only want to run 4 second chances and can't be good at the game without it, since only survive with it.
Variety on survivors is a hundred times bigger than on killers.
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I'm gonna be honest. I was willing to accept the killer nerfs because Dead Hard was getting buried but now it's not and we've still lost our best perks and now I've lost motivation to come back and try the patch.
I'm glad they reverted the base healing but now SWF will be true menaces with CoH. So killers are the big losers of this patch, solo players are the small losers of this patch, and SWF wins again.
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One of the worst parts of this patch is that even though we often get complaints that solo q is awful, and changes need to be made for the sake of solo q…….. that this community rallied together to shove the burden of the healing nerfs onto self healing, which affects solo q more than SWFs. So we just widened the gap between solo q and SWF even more, and people are ok with that.
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You should really read more carefully.
DH: No, you do NOT get two activations with an unhook. It was changed from having to safely rescue to being unhooked (by another or self). I mixed that up myself, bc. dev update was not 100% clear. Whatever, this change guarantees that the survs will have two successful DH tops, and ensure that they WON'T be able to use it until hooked once. Thats a significant nerf compared to live DH, and a readjustment compared to the ptb DH, but by no means a buff. If anything, changing it to unhook grants more predictability for the killer, since he can be sure not ro run into DH when chasing unhooked survivors.
COH: The most busted aspect of this perk was the ability to self heal. Thats still gone, you won't be able to self heal in the boon area anymore. You will need still need a teammate to heal you, but atleast they will heal you twice as fast. That buffed numbers are necessary to keep the perk somewhat viable, otherwise it would be totally useless. 50% faster altruistic heals are hardly worth it, considering you habe to boon a totem and need to group up with others (travel time) to make use out of it.
Both changes to DH and COH are way more than just "minor adjustments". The former got limited from unlimited use to 2 and does not help in initial chases anymore, the latter lost the core reason it was picked in the first place. Even calling the medkit nerfs "small", when medkit self heal was nerfed drastically (only one heal, with severe speed and efficiancy debuff). If thats all just "minor" nerfs for you, I would really like to know what sufficient nerfs were in your opiniion.
Killer regression destroyed: Imo thats a good thing, bc way to many killer players are too dependent on their stacked regression perks. Chasing, injuring, downing and hooking efficiently is the real slowdown. I play without any gen regression in 90% of my games. Sure there are games where the gens are flying, but honestly, if I face a group thats so obsessed with getting out of the game as fast as humanly possibly, I'll help them by opening the gate for them.
Buffed genrush: Resilience is not changed at all. Overzealous got a QoL change yeah, but that just makes the perk actually playable. And if you are really booning a hex, you waste way more time then you can ever save with overzealous.
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New DH is a huge un-nerf, compared to original PTB DH.
In the original PTB version, people that equip dead hard might get 0 activations from it, if they didn't safe unhook anyone. In the newer version, every survivor that equips dead hard gets 2 activations for free.
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That's not an unnerf.
That's, at best, a change.
The maximum limit of the perk is far less but it has guaranteed activations now.
The perk is still bad though. It got nerfed extremely hard.
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I have literally seen nothing but complaints from you on this forum. You want to talk about inexperience and personal problems, when you're the one clearly having a hard time.
Fact is, nerfing COH self-healing gives valuable time to killers particularly when facing solo players. Nothing incorrect about that. Maybe look at the post I was replying to for context?
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No. It's a huge un-nerf. With the original PTB, it's extremely easy to get 0 or 1 activations, especially in solo Q. New DH is 2 guaranteed activations, which is a huge boost.
The maximum limit was unrealistic. People usually aren't getting 6 DH activations on live DBD. The average would be 3, which is 1 per hook state. So the original PTB is realistically usually 0 or 1, with a much lower chance of 2 or 3.... and new DH is guaranteed 2.
And if the original PTB version went live, survivors would quickly find out they can easily get stuck with 0 activations, and would drop the perk.
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Guaranteed activations is why Dead Hard will remain a meta perk that everyone runs, because they don't have to do anything to earn it. It just happens passively, same as before. The only change is that now it can't happen during the first chase with any survivor. After that, it's the exact same meta as usual.
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How many DH's do you think actually succeed?
As a percentage.
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Yeah, I think you're just determined to be stubborn which, more power to you, I suppose.
Post edited by Pulsar on3 -
I have no guess how many people will run DH, but it has taken a huge nerf. As you mentioned, you can't use it on the first chase, but that's the one that's most important while you have three survivors doing gens. Likewise it becomes useless if you are camped and get hit coming off the hook. If you are tunneled than OTR would have been a better perk to have, which you could mix with an exhaustion perk as well.
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The original PTB DH version where people can often get 0 activations is way less useful than the new DH that gets 2 guaranteed activations.
I would have been fine if the original PTB version went live, because it was a massive nerf. This new DH is not a massive nerf.
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In your own words. Common activations goes from 6 to 2. That's not stronger than it was before. The PTB is for testing ideas before going live. The result is still a nerf from the current live version.
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In my own words, the original PTB DH was a massive nerf that the game deserved. New DH is a huge un-nerf compared to the original PTB version.
And no, common activations was never 6. For the original PTB version the common activations would have been 0 or 1, especially in solo q where the survivors might be fighting each other to get unhooks.
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Ironically, dead hard suffers from survivorship bias: killers only ever see when it works.
I'm pretty sure if the devs added a notification for just the killer when dead hard didn't work it would solve a number of issues.
They could make the killer hear the survivor shout 'I'm bad at the game' when they're exhausted on the ground and the dead hard complaints would lessen. Slightly. For a few days.
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We'll see how it turns out. I agree, that all 3 regression perks that got touched are pretty much dead but the medkit and DH nerfs are a big deal. No more third health state in the first chase and no more 5 seconds self-heals will have a big impact.
I do believe BHVR will closesly monitor the kill rates and make adjustments, if necessary. Especially since this has a bigger impact than 6.1.0.
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6 for current live version. Your statement.
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If there is anywhere on these forums where I said live DBD is usually getting 6 activations, please link me the quote so I can correct the statement.
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You could make a clip of me shouting, "######### YOU GAME I PRESSED E" and makr that the failed DH sound.
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Or they could give the killer an indicator of which survivors have an active dead hard ready, so killers can know which survivors didn't dead hard correctly. This would also let killers know which survivors they need to waste extra time "baiting the DH", which solves a major annoyance of the perk.
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Don't know. Don't think it matters, either. There's tons of newbie players who flub DH constantly, but there's more than a few players who can use it almost perfectly. It's like the difference between a bad Nurse and a good Nurse, you're going to get very different results.
Anyway, according to a lot of people on this forum, Dead Hard is a bad perk that never works and takes lots of skill to use and is never reliable and you're much better off using any other Exhaustion perk. But people use it anyway, because it's "fun," apparently. Because it's "fun," I think people are going to continue using Dead Hard like they always have, because the nerf that was supposed to require effort on the survivors' part to earn it has been changed into something that requires no additional effort whatsoever. Survivors don't have to change anything about how they play, it's just a slap on the wrist tweak now, so it won't change anything at all.
Which is hilarious for an update that was supposed to change things.
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To be fair you can currently hard tunnel people to deny DH anyways since they made the absurd decision to have anti-tunnel endurance put you in Deep Wound. Nothing is changing on that front. It will make the first chase easier however.
People may heal fast, (16 survivor seconds 8 real / compared to 21.33 survivor seconds 21.33 real) but that requires 2 survivors in one spot for that to happen now. That means if I hop in and interrupt the heal, I can keep 2 people off of gens at one time. This also doesn't take into account the raw travel time of both survivors, and a delay for someone to notice someone in a CoH aura. This likely will take more than 6 survivor seconds, more than making up the difference in effects. Heck, even if both survivors are running directly at each other, it takes an extra ~24m of movement to take longer than before. If they were only running 24m then you can easily chase them down, and if they are running further, then it is taking more total time anyways. To me that seems like a win-win in favor of killer.
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The count of activations is exactly the same. The unhooked might get zero activations, but the unhookers might (up to 6 activations) Or not if the killer tunneled. Thus the PTB DH promoted tunneling even further, you could deny ANY DH with it, making DH totally useless when tunneling. And when playing fair and not tunneling, after some unhooks you simply wouldn't know anymore who might have DH or not.
With post PTB DH, every survivor gets a chance to activate their own DH. It cannot be denied by tunneling (at least not the activation, ofc you still cannot be in mending to use it). And you as the killer now before a chase if a surv might have it active or not. Thats all in all way healthier than PTB version, and still way weaker than the live version.
Why all that comparisons with PTB version in the first place? Who cares if DH gets a little bit stronger again after ptb feedback? All that matters is that its weaker than the live version, bc that's the version that needs to be nerfed. If there are some intermediate versions that are stronger or weaker is irrelevant, what matters is the end result that goes live!
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The maximum limit was unrealistic. People usually aren't getting 6 DH activations on live DBD. The average would be 3, which is 1 per hook state.
My bad, you said 3 not 6. Still my point stands, there will be less DH potential with the update.
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"THE ANIMATION PLAYED WHY AM I ON THE GROUND"
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I actually think there already is a way for the killer to tell who got screwed over, you can tell by how they scream.
If they go down but the scream is drawn out, similar to how it sounds when they get injured, they probably Dead Harded but got validated.
If the survivor goes down and plays the shorter "knocked down" scream, they didn't Dead Hard or hit them after.
I've noticed this a lot when hitting survivors I know have Dead Hard and I don't know if this is actually a thing or if I'm just imagining it haha
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Gen regression perks are getting gutted while most of the survivor nerfs are getting reverted/readjusted. Now tell me this ain't survivor sided balancing. Genrushing already was pretty bad but now it'll be completely unpreventable.
They NEED to nerf gen progression in this game, the first step would be to delete BNP and drastically lower the efficency of toolkits as well as Prove Thyself. Resilience needs to be readjusted as well because it'll be 100% paired with Adrenaline on genrush squads.
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They know what they need to do, but they're afraid to because of the backlash they'll receive from t-bagging swfs.
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The only killer perks that got nerfed were overcharge and CoB
PR is a sidegrade at least and in a lot of scenarios stricktly better then old PR so i would almost say it's overall been buffed.
First hook (which is the most important as killers are at their weakest early game) is stricktly better by 10%
Second hook if you do anything else the straight tunnel is better by 20% in total. Which means you can safely go for the first survivor again and still be better of then old pr
4th hook on a third survivor means you're 15% ahead of old PR which again means you can go kill of the first survivor and still be on par with old PR except a hook sooner.
It's also less hook rng dependent now. With old PR any scourge hook you miss is 15% regression you'll never get again. With the new one you only need to get to a scourge hook 4 times to get full vallue.
Which on top of that also means that you don't have to break your scourge hook by killing survivors on them which means you'll pretty much always have 4 scourge hooks up.
Where with the old PR to get full vallue you had to break your own scourge hooks reducing the chance for future ones.
So in total less hook rng and more bang for your buck earlier which is better in a game where the killer is at it's weakest in the early game.
I can see some arguments that there are certain situations where it's worse, but anyone who says the perk is dead isn't thinking straight. A side grade more then anything
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No they're not dude stop dancing around it. Survivors can still hammer gens... Boom... Game over.
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From the killer side of things, it's a nerf.
Whereas before, it would be impossible to track who has DH up unless you were camping, now you know who has DH available and who does not. Additionally, one DH could get up to 6 activations, now it's 2, max.
This change literally just trims the excesses down for killers while boosting the floor for survivors.
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It's not like you couldn't play without any slowdown. Yes, it was way harder than it should but it was still possible. Also, Corrupt Intervention, Deadlock and Jolt are still solid options.
The first chase is guaranteed to go without DH. That is a big deal. Survivors need more time to heal and can't heal multiple times with 1 medkit. This should enable killers to create pressure more naturally and without the need of specific perks.
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The minimum potential of 0 activations (which is very easy to get stuck with) is much more important than the maximum potential of 6 activations (which is very hard to do).
Original PTB DH is like many killer hexes. Yeah they have strong maximum potential, but they also have the minimum potential to be a waste of a perk slot in some games. If all we cared about was maximum potential, then Devour Hope and Pentimento would be S tier perks.
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Or you can look at the overall performance and realise that this isn't really that much of a buff, especially since, as I mentioned before, you now have clear intel on who has it and who doesn't, on top of the extra nerf it got at PTB's launch.
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A situational perk, where survivors can easily end up with 0 activations the entire game (especially in solo q), is way less useful than a perk that gives people 2 free activations. Survivors will remember the games where they got 0 activations, and they won't like it.
And I wouldn't need clear intel with the original PTB version, because the DH pick rate would have dropped so much that I wouldn't care. Also, survivors with sprint burst or lithe will usually show their exhaustion perk before the killer gets their 2nd attack to connect, so killers usually get intel anyway on who might have DH anyway.
Because DH now has "tunnel protection", BHVR should treat it like an anti-tunnel perk..... DH should deactivate if the survivor does a conspicuous action. That would make the perk as nerfed as the original PTB version, where it's a situational perk, just like the original PTB version was.
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No. It's a huge un-nerf. With the original PTB, it's extremely easy to get 0 or 1 activations, especially in solo Q. New DH is 2 guaranteed activations, which is a huge boost.You're basically explaining why the change was necessary. SWFs could run a single dedicated unhooker with DH (which they already do with Deliverance). While 6 DH would be unlikely, more than 2 would not.
Because DH now has "tunnel protection", BHVR should treat it like an anti-tunnel perk.....How much do you want to nerf Off the Record to make that potentially viable?
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It makes no sense to me other than just pandering to survivors as usual. The HUD obviously boosted escape rates for survivor or the devs wouldn't have even tried these changes. For them to go back to very weak nerfs while gen regression got nerfed hard is just going to drop kill rates even further
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So it off the record and u gotta time it? That would be trash but I'm all for it just to finally kill the perk. sick of hearing about it
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The perk is absolutely dead. It has always been rng dependent and now you are severely limited in its usage. It will die for the same reason that grim embrace never took off: hooking all 4 survivors isn’t optimal play. This patch especially will ensure that killers tunnel someone out immediately. Killers who try to hook everyone will be playing for a 2k against a good group, or against a bad group would win without the perk anyways.
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So you're saying they'll be a SWF with only 1 person using DH in the entire match? Sounds like an improvement over new DH, where all 4 people can use the perk because it gives everyone 2 free activations, which means I could easily see it 8 times in a match.
Original PTB DH would have buried the perk, so yes, new DH should be nerfed enough to also be buried.
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It was +50% + aura reading, which could be a very good thing for soloQ. I think that was enough. I think that the new CoH will be stronger than the current version with even two or three man team.
Now, every SWF will have a safe fast reset spot, erasing the killer pressure in seconds.
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I really wish they've changed the healing in a way that it would be necessary to run healing perks for fast heals (even if they needed to nerf hemorrage).
I really like using healing builds as survivors, but they seem pointless in the current state of the game, as a single boon can provide every survivor the boost in healing they need. I wish survivors would have to choose between slower heals or having one perk to make the healing faster.
Too bad it won't change too much the meta.
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It was only aura reading while inside the Boon iirc. It was dead for everyone except SWF.
New CoH is NOT even close to being stronger than old CoH, don't let number increases fool you.
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Here is a secret many people don't seem to realise while playing with these kind of perks.
The perks do in fact not deactivate when someone dies. You are in no obligation to get all your tokens out before killing someone.
You can have someone dead by hook 5 and be ahead of current PR all the time with less hook rng.
You can have someone dead on hook 4 and only have one hook you are behind current PR to then instantly negate it on the next hook.
Comparing it to Grim Embrace is silly, Embrace does nothing untill everyone is hooked. The new Pr does.
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So you'd rather have a harder time in harder matches and an easier time in easy matches than having some amelioration between the two?
It was most certainly not enough, since Botany Knowledge offered the same value, just without any range restrictions, set-up time or counterplay. It'd be incredibly inefficient, putting it more in line with Autodidact, No Mither and Potential Energy.
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