The second iteration of 2v8 is now LIVE - find out more information here: https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/kb/articles/480-2v8-developer-update

So What Slowdown *Is* Left, Anyway? (Long. Too Long...)

jesterkind
jesterkind Member Posts: 7,833

While I am interested in talking about perks and their relative viability, I want to talk a little bit (or... a lot) about the purpose and theory behind slowdown in this game first, so indulge me.

Non-generator perks and killer-specific slowdown is something that I'll address towards the bottom of this post, after I've gone through every generator-specific perk and after I've laid the groundwork for the lens through which I view slowdown in this game- and by extension, the lens which is most relevant to this post. That groundwork has everything to do with what I'll call "natural" slowdown, just for the sake of having something to call it.

If you've been in this community for a while, and you've either witnessed or participated in conversations about balance - especially conversations about generator balance in particular - you've likely heard the sentiment that "a killer's time is four times as valuable as a survivor's time", or the shorter "One killer second is worth four survivor seconds". This is a perfectly useful framing, it has some helpful applications and some proper contexts to use it in, but is badly misused by the community as a whole. The problem with treating this concept as a universal, inherent truth about killer gameplay that must be kept in mind at all moments of any match and in any conversation about balance, is... well, it's not universally, inherently true all the time, is it? It's only true when there are four survivors up and able to be repairing generators.

This is where the concept of natural slowdown comes into the equation. Let's assume for a moment that we've just started a match, and we're in the scenario where all four survivors are up and able to be doing generators; the kind of scenario where the idea of the time differential applies most. Once we've finished our first chase and got that survivor up on the hook, we've disabled that survivor from being able to contribute to the time pressure on us- and more importantly, whichever survivor peels off is also removed from the generator efficiency we're working against, resulting in a flat, immediate -50% penalty to that efficiency.

In fact, it wouldn't be absurd to say that our job as a killer is to alter the "four seconds to our one second" concept as much as we possibly can, at least in the short term. Long term, our goal and job is obviously to kill the survivors, but the minute to minute gameplay is mostly centred around disabling as many survivors at once as we can, and preventing generators from being done. This natural slowdown is potent, more potent than any perk, but it's temporary; even assuming time to heal, as soon as the save is finished, there's a short timer before survivors are back on generators again.

So, ideally, what we want is to have one on a hook, one going for a save, and one already in chase. That way, for that short period, only one survivor even can be working on generators and we're pretty likely to start that period over again when the chase ends, value that far outstrips the majority of slowdown perks in the game. Through this lens, I think it's fair to say that the purpose of slowdown perks is to give you more of a window to generate the kind of pressure that comes from natural slowdown, not to be the pressure preventing survivors from doing generators all on its own. This obviously takes a lot of expectations off any specific perk, and allows us to consider them in a wider context than having to regress a ton of generator seconds all on their own; you don't need them to do that, you need your build to shorten chases and at least partially combat any extra efficiency that survivor builds give them.

(Admittedly, survivors currently have access to way too much efficiency with stuff like toolboxes and Brand New Parts, but that's a separate issue.)

With that in mind, we'll get to the promised breakdown on what all slowdown perks are available to us. I'm only going to look at slowdown perks which interact with generators specifically, with notes about other forms of slowdown at the bottom, but I did take the liberty of including two perks I'd personally sooner class as information perks just for the sake of being thorough. Our perks will be broken into four categories, to better understand their application and what killers/addons/other perks they might synergise best with- remember that I am coming from the perspective of crafting full builds that synergise both with each component perk and with the killer power you're working with, not from the perspective of any of these perks being super impactful slowdown that reliably works across all killers in all contexts.

Rate of Regression.

Our first category is perks that primarily centre around having generators drain their charges, either by offering faster regression speeds or through getting generators to start regressing (without an instant regression explosion) without the need for a kick. Generally, these are the weakest slowdown perks that you can bring, but perhaps you can experiment with combinations to unlock greater potential than there might seem to be at first blush.

Call of Brine: Personally, I wouldn't consider this a regression perk anymore, but for the sake of thoroughness I included it here. When kicking a generator, for sixty seconds that generator is marked, and two effects apply: 25% faster regression while untouched, and loud noise notifications on every good skill check completed while it is being worked on. Decent information, minimal regression, could certainly work in the right build.

Hex: Ruin: I'll be blunt, this perk is pretty useless. Everything else on this list has some application, but the base rate of regression just isn't fast enough for this not to be a detriment. Still: While the hex stands, generators start regressing whenever they aren't actively being repaired, and the hex cleanses itself when someone dies. Perhaps you can come up with some way of using this, and if so, I'd love to hear it.

Oppression: When kicking a generator, up to three other generators start regressing as well. If a survivor is working on a chosen generator, they're faced with a difficult skill check. This perk's biggest limiting factor is a whopping 80 second cooldown, making it hard to use effectively, but it's there if you can figure something out. Pwease, BHVR, lower that cooldown?

Overcharge: With the upcoming nerf, this perk is going to be somewhat difficult to use. When you kick a generator, the rate of regression starts slower but ramps up to faster than normal over time, and a survivor that touches the generator must succeed a difficult skill check or face more instant regression than a normal failed skillcheck. Risky and difficult to use, but an option.

Generator Blocking.

Next up is simply blocking the generator outright. If you can't get it to drain faster, the next best step is to simply prevent a survivor from being able to progress it, right? These perks tend to swing between really simple and strong, and a little more complex and difficult to use, but they all can be used in at least some builds with a little work.

Corrupt Intervention: A classic and one of the strongest on this list in any category, Corrupt will work for almost every killer pretty reliably. For two minutes at the start of the game, the generators furthest from where you spawn will be blocked. This effect is cancelled early if you get a down within two minutes, but at that point the perk has already done what it's supposed to in pushing survivors to actually look for generators instead of immediately sitting on the ones adjacent to their spawn. Very solid, very usable, but comes with the downside of being a dead perk slot after the beginning of the match.

Dead Man's Switch: Often paired with Pain Resonance, this perk does have some application on its own or with other builds, too. After getting a hook, the perk activates for thirty seconds. Anyone who lets go of a generator within those thirty seconds blocks that generator for the remainder of the perk's timer. Relatively simple, but the timer is a big restricting element; you want to use this, in my opinion, on mobile killers like Wraith and Blight or on ranged-pressure killers like Artist and Doctor, who can interrupt generators with as much of that timer remaining as possible.

Deadlock: As simple as you can get, when a generator is finished, the generator with the next most progress is blocked for thirty seconds. Reliable background slowdown that prevents generator completion, it's not going to change the world but it'll do what you want it to. It has the positive of working basically the same on every single killer and on every single map, at the cost of not being that impactful; a good tradeoff, in my opinion.

Grim Embrace: A neat perk in theory, this one does have some unfortunate drawbacks. Once you've hooked every survivor once, all generators are blocked for 40 seconds and the Obsession's aura is revealed to you for a handful of seconds. This perk's biggest limiting factor, beyond it being rather binary in that it does all or nothing, is that survivors can absolutely stealth out the duration and only the Obsession has their aura revealed to combat this. BHVR, if you're out there, please consider having this perk reveal all auras?

Merciless Storm: Current bugs notwithstanding, this perk is of moderate use. When a generator hits 90% completion, it spawns repeated skillchecks, and if any of those checks are missed, the generator blocks for 20 seconds. Most survivors won't miss those skillchecks without prompting at this point, but if you've got some way of knowing when a generator is near completion and the ability to interrupt it, you can reliably push them off it. Not bad, but not amazing either.

Thrilling Tremors: The other perk on this list that I would personally classify as more of an information perk, this perk will block all generators not currently being worked on for 16 seconds, when you pick up a survivor. It then goes on cooldown, so that does limit its use, but it has some moderately useful information and moderately impactful slowdown, so it's all around an okay pick.

Instant Regression.

Next, we'll take a look at perks that immediately remove a certain percentage of generator progress when they activate. A lot of variance in quality here, but there's bound to be something that'll work for your specific killer and build.

Eruption: Despite popular opinion that this perk is dead and buried, it remains a very solid pick with the right application. Kicking a generator marks it with Eruption, and getting a down through any means will cause every marked generator to immediately lose 10% total progress. If someone's working on the generator when it's hit, they'll scream and reveal their aura for 10 seconds, which is a nice bonus. This perk shines best on mobile killers that can lessen the time investment of kicking multiple generators, thus causing more generators to lose progress than survivors can immediately start repairing again. My personal favourite pick is Wraith, but multiple should work.

Hex: Huntress Lullaby: I debated whether or not to put this one on here, but it does have an extra regression penalty for its failed skillchecks, so. If a survivor misses a skillcheck, that generator (or heal progress, as a nice bonus) loses an extra 6% progression compared to normal. Additionally, every hook you get will make skillchecks harder to hit by shortening their audio cue, until they're silent at five stacks. This all, of course, only works while the hex is still standing. A bit of a mixed bag, often cleansed before it does anything, but... well, it's an option!

Jolt: Straightforward as can be. Get a down with a basic attack, every generator within a certain radius instantly loses 8% progress. It's map dependant, since some maps will have multiple generators clustered within that radius at any given time and some stand a good chance of having zero close enough, but a generally reliable pick all the same.

Pop! Goes The Weasel: After getting a hook, you have 45 seconds to kick a generator and instantly delete 20% of its current progress. This differs from total, in that a generator has to have more progress for this to really do much, but it can absolutely save you a generator that's about to be completed if you're lucky. Not as reliable as it used to be by a long shot, but pairs decently with other perks and gains more potency the longer the trial goes on.

Scourge Hook: Pain Resonance: With its upcoming nerf to give it four total uses for 25% total progress each, this perk is a little up in the air right now. Hypothetically, it should be a buff for the first few hooks and a flat buff all around if you play 'nice' and mix hooks, but the hook spawn RNG remains an issue. It's hard to say how good this is going to be, but it certainly won't be the weakest on this list by a long shot, even within this category.

Unnerving Presence: This... technically counts, I think? Missed skillchecks are a form of regression, and while in your terror radius, survivors will have smaller skillchecks that spawn more frequently. This isn't a very good perk for a variety of reasons, but I figured it was best to include it for completion's sake. It has some limited applications in very specific builds, so I'm sure some can use it to good effect.

Generator Slowdown.

Finally, we have the category of perks that aim to make the repair action itself slower. These perks tend to be harder to use and maintain, but can be some of the most impactful in the game under the right circumstances. They tend to be riskier, but some of them at least are worth experimenting with if you're willing to dedicate a lot of your build and playstyle to them.

Dying Light: Starting out with a weak perk, here. This perk gains tokens every time you hook a survivor that isn't the Obsession, and incurs a global slowdown towards healing, repairing, and sabotaging that stacks higher with each token. It starts small and doesn't ramp up that quickly, and the Obsession gets a flat 33% speed bonus to healing and unhooking from the start, so I wouldn't personally consider this worth running, but again: it's an option.

Hex: Pentimento: This perk has the potential to be the most impactful slowdown in the game, more or less. Whenever a totem is broken, you can 'resurrect' it as a Pentimento totem, granting you stacking slowdown for actions depending on how many totems are up; the first two are repair and healing, respectively, and so they're the most important. A global 30% slowdown is nothing to sneeze at, and this perk pairs well with sources that force survivors towards interacting with totems, as well as Shattered Hope should they bring boons. It has a habit of devouring your whole build towards supporting it, but the reward can absolutely be worth it.

Scourge Hook: Gift of Pain: If you're willing to cycle the survivors you're hooking, this perk can provide a fairly reasonable 16% slowdown to any survivor who is healed after being unhooked from a white hook, which stacks nicely with other affected survivors and other sources of slowdown. A little micro-managey at times, but a perfectly serviceable pick.

Thanataphobia: The last perk on our list is admittedly not very good. If you're playing Plague specifically, you can get the full 30%-ish slowdown, but realistically one survivor will remain healed, and that brings the slowdown all the way back down to only 6%. Hard to use, but can pair with other sources relatively well. Mixed bag, really.

--

And with that, the list of all generator slowdown perks and how viable they may be is completed. In conclusion, I think it's safe to say that somewhere in this list, there'll be something that you can pair with other perks and your killer's power to give you enough of a window to generate natural pressure-- and remember, there are other sources that you can use here. Healing slowdown offers you either survivors wasting time off generators or survivors that are vulnerable to one hit downs (+ easier to track), killer-specific slowdown can help generators regress just that little bit more or at least provide you more time to start getting more hooks, and even totem slowdown can be useful in the right builds and with the right application.

If I had to end this with one specific take, I think it's that people should be more receptive to mixing tactics, rather than putting all their eggs into specifically regression. You can get good slowdown from just chase perks if you're skilled enough- and while that's not a bar I would hold the average player to, it does hint that perhaps even the average player could get good results from a properly tailored build that isn't stacking (or even just relying on) individually potent regression perks.

Hopefully this helps elucidate an outlook towards the game that isn't entirely doom-and-gloom about what all is available to killer players, and perhaps someone could get some inspiration for a new build from it. Either way, thanks for reading, and good luck out there in the fog! :3

Comments

  • Krazzik
    Krazzik Member Posts: 2,475
    edited April 2023

    Jolt and Deadlock are the main two that I could see becoming more meta. Then in a few months they'll get nerfed because of their pick rate.

    To be fair Pain Res is still decent now that it'll be 25%, plus it still works with DMS so I think it'll still be used a fair bit after it's nerf. Other than that Eruption and Pop are still serviceable and work well together, you just wont wanna bring CoB or Overcharge now they're gutted. Corrupt is still solid on a few killers too.

    Oh! Also Penti is -really- strong slowdown, you just gotta bring either Plaything or Devour/Undying.

  • Cassiopeiae
    Cassiopeiae Member Posts: 263
    edited April 2023

    Okay I won't read all that, but my 2 cents about the topic itself:

    BHVR are just slowly moving into giving the good ol' git gud pill, so in other words both for survivor and killer there's just going to be less crutches and more incentives to actually get better at the game and win because of that and not because of a certain thing.

    Having 4 second chance perks or 4 slowdowns stacked together was never a good thing.

    I think future new metas could turn out to be very fun if everyone was willing to leave their perk-build comfort zones, and their insatiable need to win and stomp the other side in a game that is essentially not meant to be taken seriously.

    Edit: about what perks are still good to use I'd say deadlock, and pentimento is not bad at all either.

  • This content has been removed.
  • Zeidoktor
    Zeidoktor Member Posts: 2,065

    I've used Hex: Ruin, Pain Res, and Oppression on Artist alongside Surveillance for a long distance regression build. The idea is to take advantage of Artist's ability to harass gens from almost anywhere and use that to locate survivors. Oppression is for when Ruin inevitably goes down, whether by cleanse or death. Though I've been contemplating swapping with Eruption.

    On that note, I'd also add Eruption as a viable choice on M2 killers who down with their powers, as it does for them what Jolt does for M1s, turn a down into potential regression. The more mobile among them can also benefit from the aura info.

  • jesterkind
    jesterkind Member Posts: 7,833

    You know, I tried pairing Ruin with Surveillance before, and didn't have much luck- but I was trying it on Wraith, and now that you mention it, Artist might get more value out of that particular build.

    Smart idea, I like it!

  • Xernoton
    Xernoton Member Posts: 5,842

    That...

    Is a lot.

  • HauntedKnight
    HauntedKnight Member Posts: 388

    I mostly agree, but I still think that some killers simply cannot down good survivors quick enough to be able to not rely on slowdown perks. When I play some m1 killers, I’m bringing 1/2 slow down perks not because I care about winning but because I don’t want to lose within 5 minutes. If you have only a basic attack and you have no mobility you will struggle without slowdown.

    But then the overall issue of how do you balance a game that contains both Nurse and Trapper rears its head and no one has any solution to that dilemma.

  • Sonzaishinai
    Sonzaishinai Member Posts: 7,976

    I don't understand why so many people bring up hook rng for pain res.

    It's less of an issue with the changes. With the current one every scourge hook you miss is vallue lost forever. With the new one you only need to get 4 to get full vallue.

    You don't even need to sacrifice scourge hooks anymore for vallue.

    The hook rng is way less of a issue with the new one

  • Rulebreaker
    Rulebreaker Member Posts: 2,029

    Thats a big wall of text right there...

    Overall we agree with the main points (or what we think the points are)

    Our answer to the top question is that everything is serviceable as long as the load out compliments it or use it effectively. For example we've gotten use out of grim embrace on trapper by using it as a mid game corrupt intervention to reset/move traps without worry. The only contender we think is non serviceable is ruin, though someone could prove us wrong (doubtful though).

    We also agree that slowdown perks are ment to give a window to pressure survivors. Currently we mostly see killers stack 3/4 slowdown perks and trying to whittle away everything while never chasing more than a handful of seconds, wasting that huge window. No "natural" pressure and most have become compliant in having this huge window. While some maps make it look like taking 4 slowdowns is the best option it's not going to help in the long run. People need to stop relying on slowing down gens and to speed up chases.

  • Krazzik
    Krazzik Member Posts: 2,475

    The problem is that most 'chase' perks are pretty garbage. If they buffed them and made them actually on par with some of the better slowdown perks then people would use them.

    The only chase perks I'd say that are really worth bringing are Blood Favour (which has it's own problems, being a hex perk) and STBFL, which is more a camping perk than anything.

  • Brimp
    Brimp Member Posts: 2,997

    Jolt I guess. Overall the whole slowdown execution was a bit overdue but not in this way. I would willingly sacrifice what I want to run in my build if I had the limitation of 1 regression if they were still as strong as they were. That way no regression stacking where a generator loses all progress in 30 seconds because a killer simply kicked it. Didn't hook someone prior to earn the regression, just kicked it.

  • jesterkind
    jesterkind Member Posts: 7,833

    I've laid out quite a few more options than that, but also, the title is rhetorical, lol. I'm making a point with it.

  • Xernoton
    Xernoton Member Posts: 5,842

    After reading and thinking about what you said I mostly agree.

    Especially the point you made about players being able to do well even without stacking slowdown is something that I can attest to. I might not be the average player (mostly because I know a lot of the actual numbers behind perks and powers) but I'm not a tournament player either. I have refused to put on slowdown for almost 2 years now and I've been doing fine. I can see how limited my time in a match is and that often enough I am completely unable to compete due to matches being over in about 4 minutes but I'm doing ok. You can play without slowdown. It's just way harder than it should be (in my opinion). Even 1 slowdown perk can make a big difference, though we're moving closer to where that is no longer the case.

    I am uncertain about Overcharge. It offers too little extra regression speed to be considered a good perk for that part alone. The skill check is a bit of a mixed bag as well. It's punishing for newer players (that already have a rough time going against any slowdown) but pretty much a non factor for everyone else. In my opinion it's worse than before the initial buff in 6.1.0.

    One thing though. I looked it up and Thanatophobia at 4 stacks gives you 4 × 2% + 12% = 20% slowdown instead of 30%.

  • Cassiopeiae
    Cassiopeiae Member Posts: 263

    Yes, exactly, that's why the perks exist. But instead of being used once or twice in a build for certain killers that kinda need it, they were being used as a 4 stack by literally everyone just for the sake of exploiting them and having no-brainer pressure.

  • jesterkind
    jesterkind Member Posts: 7,833

    Oh, shoot, my bad- I even looked up all the perks to make sure I got the numbers right, my finger must've slipped while typing that up or something. Thanks for the correction, I'll leave it up so your response doesn't look weird lmao

    And I appreciate the response in general! I went through a bit of a phase using either no slowdown at all, or only minimal slowdown, as a way to sort of hone my skills- I know it's possible even if I'm not quite at that point personally, so if that's possible, bringing less individually potent slowdown in a build that complements it definitely is.

    Overcharge, I lean towards it not being good, but I was attempting to give every perk as much benefit of the doubt as I could. Personally I'd love to see it reworked entirely, I don't know that it's current effect can be balanced very easily.

  • Rulebreaker
    Rulebreaker Member Posts: 2,029

    It's not about chase perks persay, it's the ability to chase/ when to keep chase/ something like that, though we'd argue for bamboozle and crowd control some other time. Most that we see either mindlessly follow or mind game themselves to paranoia. Maybe it's more accurate to say the killers thinking needs changed. Not sure about the proper words and Abit busy to think to hard about it ATM.

  • Blueberry
    Blueberry Member Posts: 13,669
    edited April 2023

    Still decent slowdown I’d put CI, DL, Jolt and NWO. That’s about it.

    Slow down stacking is still pretty needed on most the killer roster with how weak they are and how poorly designed maps are. They just aren’t designed to have even the potential when played perfectly to slow down the survivors enough for a 12 hook game against actually good swf. Hopefully we can eventually get away from this.

  • Gamedozer7
    Gamedozer7 Member Posts: 2,657

    there is only so much skill expression in this game especially do to the random nature of the game. question if my chase are lasting around 20 seconds yet im still getting 4 man outed is it really a skill problem? ive been playing with some of the slowdown that is left and it doesn't look good we are moving back in to the 10 minute q times for survivors era because slowdown is an necessity against decent survivor that do gens. the devs have done nothing to slow the game down on the killer side which needs to happen because its a 4v1 yet killer regression is 4x slower then survivor progression. the game is seriously imbalance when it comes to objective speed and its why slowdown is ran and now with slowdown all but gone more and more killer will either use tactics to circumvent the objective speeds or just leave and neither is heathy for the game.

  • jesterkind
    jesterkind Member Posts: 7,833

    I'd recommend reading the full post, I address this mindset in it.

  • Gamedozer7
    Gamedozer7 Member Posts: 2,657

    im not going to lie thats not going to happen the post is way to long imo and i made it to about the second paragraph and way like yeah im done reading. if you want to copy it into a response then ok but other then that i stand by what i said this game has little skill expression and even that is removed by the amount of loop with no gameplay on them. BTW no disrespect to you or the fact that you wrote a huge post im just not going to read all that.

  • jesterkind
    jesterkind Member Posts: 7,833

    I mean, fair enough, but I do have to question the logic of replying in a thread when you haven't read the OP, lol.