The Fact that Decisive Strike get's deactivated in the Endgame is just stupid
So, yesterday I had the same scenario a few times and it's absolutely stupid. I am playing a bloodpoint build because I want to hit the 2 Millionen Mark before the new Bloodweb Update goes life.
So I bring Decisive Strike, Deliverance, Prove Thyself and Kindred
The gens where completed pretty quickly since the killer chased one survivor for the whole match. So the end game starts and the survivor get's hooked, I trade with them since the killer Camps him. Then I get unhooked and.....Decisive Strike is deactivated because it's the endgame and I get tunneled again.
I don't understand how this change is fair. So the survivors gets punished because the killer wasn't able to spread pressure or hook me before?
Decisive Strike works only 1 time, is only activated for 60 seconds and deactivats itself anyway when you do a Action. Why this stupid "It's the end game so your perk is worthless" crap?
Comments
-
Because Decisive Strike during EGC makes survivors invulnerable if they go down anywhere near the exit gate.
Can't pick them up, can't leave them on the ground, they escape either way.
Counterpoint; why should you deserve a free second chance when you've already 'won' by repairing all the gens? You still have basekit BT to protect you from tunneling, so you have every opportunity to not go down immediately after getting unhooked.
50 -
The problem was it being active in endgame essentially granted a free escape. Especially with a 5 second stun, if you were unhooked in endgame, the killer would not be able to hook you. This already led to some awkward moments where you stand awkwardly at the exit gate, watching the survivor crawl out because you need their perk to expire.
So, DS turned off in endgame. And they reduced the stun. And now people are split if DS should be reverted, that it's fine because anti tunneling shouldn't rely on a single licensed perk, or that it could get minor buffs rather than a full reversal.
12 -
It's not stupid, Its called balanced.
13 -
People before explained it well. Watching someone crawl out for 40 seconds knowing you can't do anything about it is not only frustrating but a waste of everyones time.
Basekit BT already means that if you are within 44m of the exit gate you escape no matter what.
Real question here is how you got downed again while you should have 3 other survivors to bodyblock for you?
16 -
They might not have changed this if survivors hadn't abused it so much by laying on the ground in the exit gates so they could hit their DS and then teabag the hell out of the killer with their free escape
13 -
Nah bro, deactivating in endgame is 100% healthy. The only issue with DS is that a 3 second stun is basically worthless.
6 -
If you get hooked near the gate and you're teammates are smart, it's a free escape anyway most of the time.
And if not, Deliverance is even stronger. Because it still works endgame. Pair it with Adre.
0 -
I don't mind it deactivating in the endgame. I do wish the stun wasn't so short; that is the only reason why I don't use it. But other than that, it should be deactivated after the gens is done.
0 -
The only problem is that the stun is too short. DS deactivating after gens pop is fine.
4 -
It was nerfed to keep it out of the stale meta. I'm glad as people are running a bit more variety now. Built in borrowed time and off the record ease the pain of its removal from those solo players that were genuinely using it as anti-tunnel. I hope they continue nefing meta perks on both sides.
0 -
That part is fine, it didn't need both that and the stun time decrease though. Should've been only end game deactivation.
0 -
- Without DS, you have teammates to take hits for you.
- With DS, you crawl out the gate or the killer gets stun and you run out.
One of these two gives the opportunity for both sides to win.
2 -
Because a survivor getting unhooked and then body blocking for the unhooker/teammates with a 100% guaranteed safety shield + crawl out potential was stupid. If survivors only used it the way it was intended? Not a problem but when it becomes an offensive tool it ceases to be "anti tunnel"
6 -
Tell me you're a survivor main only without telling me you're a survivor main only
3 -
Old DS was awful. So glad its much more reasonable nowadays.
3 -
DS disabling during end game is a reasonable change, just like disabling with conspicuous actions was reasonable.
I think the only thing that was overkill was the stun duration nerf. With a 3 second stun (1 second of which is animation locked for both players) the survivor only gains 2 seconds of distance.
DS isn't even effective at it's job anymore and can largely be ignored or laughed off by killers now. It used to be something killers at least considered or played around because the stun was an actual deterrent.
2 -
Old DS was just one part of the infamous "killer endgame 'no-win' scenario". Named so because certain perks would net the killer no chance of securing a kill in the endgame. Old DS played heavily into that because, as others have already said, if a survivor was unhooked in the endgame and had DS ready, there was nothing the killer could do aside from using Mori to prevent the survivor from escaping.
BHVR understood that this was an imbalance granting survivors a golden ticket for free escapes, and that the killers were becoming very frustrated, especially when survivors started crafting entire endgame builds around it. Here's a perfect example:
2 -
If Survivors weren't so "it's my game, I can play how I want," a counter-measure would have already become common practice.
If a Survivor is on the hook with 1 gen left, the final gen needs to be 99'd. After going in for save, return to pop the last gen so long as the recently hooked Survivor is not downed.
There are multiple benefits to 99ing the last gen:
1) Allow an opportunity for Survivor to use DS and/or OTR
2) Avoid getting downed with NOED during save attempt
3) Insta-heal any health states lost during rescue, with Adrenaline
4) Opportunity for safe unhook, if Killer believes they can stop the last gen from popping
0 -
I dunno, I disagree on DS giving free escapes in endgame. With Deli and base bt you could've escaped if you played your cards right but I'm guessing you got your basekit bt blocked and got no ds stun and went back on hook (the game is already over, tunneling isn't really the term here, do you expect the killer who got no pressure all game to go for an entirely different survivor? makes no sense) you could've forced base bt by vaulting and got the speed boost and tried something with it or maybe if you cared about escaping that bad you could've just not saved. idk. the killer punished your altruism. seemed like a good play from their part.
1 -
Like deliverance doesn’t already essentially guarantee an out during endgame. Honestly if you need more than that when the gens are done, you are actively carried by perks, period.
0 -
I would be more mad at your teammates for not protecting you than DS not working.
You have basekit BT for situations like this
1 -
No it's not ☠️ why should the killer be freely allowed to tunnel because the survivor looped him long enough for the gates to open
1 -
"because the survivor looped him long..." lets be real here, this doesn't happen in most matches.
why the Killer shouldn't be able to go for the same Survivor when all the objective is done? What the killer is supposed to do? Use the most effective strategy (that Survivors hate) so you can prevent all gens being done? Let all Survivors unhook each other for free, trade hooks until everyone is out?
4 -
Yeah, not being guaranteed an escape is stupid. Just look at base BT with open exit gates.
You know, that this would actually incentivise tunneling even more, right? After all, if I get the DS out of the way early on, I won't need to worry about it in endgame. Though, then you're not gonna make it to endgame anyway.
1 -
I'm all for increasing the stun back up to 5 seconds but it deactivating in endgame is a good change. Same with OTR, if they were allowed in endgame they create unwinnable situations for the killer.
10 seconds of basekit BT and 10% haste is enough in endgame easily.
1 -
Use hope or adrenaline or both for end game. No one uses decisive strike anymore for that very reason it’s a wasted perk slot in my opinion.
0 -
I agree that DS should not deactivated in EGC. As someone who mains survivor and plays regularly but is not that good, it’s frustrating to almost never live to see the 5th gen pop and EGC. I love survivor, but I am absolutely terrible at looping/escaping chase. Being chased after unhook, I often go down very quickly. I think this perk should be altered to appeal to survivors who struggle with chase. If they severely decrease the amount of activation time of the perk, I think it could work very well. If you’re a seasoned survivor who can loop easily, why would you run DS? There is no benefit for seasoned survivors to run DS if they severely shorten DS’s activation time. What benefit would they have if they can loop and escape successfully? Could they even abuse it, being able to escape easily on their own and with such a shortened activation time? It would just waste a perk slot for them. Survivors who rarely make it to EGC and aren’t good loopers, like me, could use the perk to actually be able to escape once in a while when they actually survive till EGC. Then, if they improve their looping, they will no longer need to run DS. I think this change could largely benefit newer players and regulars like me who are still not good at looping. Thoughts?
0 -
I thought survivors hated situations with no counterplay??????
2 -
Disagree.
It forces the Killer into a lose-lose scenario in the EGC.
5 -
ill never understand this talk about "free escapes" when free kills are still a thing, not to mention the survivors did all the gens? why should they be punished? it really just doesnt make sense. the counterplay to it is not losing all the gens
0 -
"free" even tho it required getting all the gens done. also, theres no equivalent to this survivors once the killer has killed 3 ppl, the closest is hatch which isnt guaranteed and if the killer slugs for the 4k it just doesnt happen. if anything, the lack of this supposed "free second chance" is the killer getting what is ACTUALLY a free second chance as a reward for losing all the gens. winners deserve to win, shouldnt be a shocker
0 -
Completing all the generators doesn’t automatically equate to a win for Survivors.
There were two other Survivors excluding the one being hooked earlier and none of them came to help you? If your strategy for escaping was solely reliant on the 3 second DS and none of your teammates came to body block for you, that’s a team misplay.
3 -
The killer has succeeded in their objective by downing a survivor, but now it becomes impossible to hook them.
That's like a survivor succeeding in repairing a generator, but now that generator explodes and doesn't count and that repair was wasted.
3 -
I think DS should go back to 5 seconds because (sigh) nurse. 3 seconds is jut not enough against her.
0 -
Save DS till second hook, get hooked on EGC, deliverance, become invincible because killer cant do ######### while you waltz over to the exit gate. Hell, even if they camp for the kill in the end they cant do anything because your teammates dont need to save you so theres no bait.
0 -
A common thing I keep seeing in this thread is how it was 'uncounterable' as though all the other Survivors in the match are invisible. Even in the Bubba video posted, he ignored 2 free saws on people that weren't previously on hook. I can understand and agree that bodyblocking with anti-tunnel effects is annoying, and the counter to that is disable collision while under those effects, so the Killer can just run past them if standard M1 styled. Also many people are acting as though Deli is free, when you can only be hooked on first hook in endgame AFTER gates are 99'ed/opened. Most often you get hooked before then, especially if you risked the rescue on the person to earn your Deli in the first place.
Someone deserves a 'free second chance' because they used the perk for it with hyper-specific conditions, (1 minute after unhook without touching anything to progress the game) it hardly is free. Otherwise why wouldn't someone use a perk that gives value regardless of the stage of the game, or a perk that helps reach that late game better? The Killer isn't without options, since they can still take down the unhooker and put them further into the map.
Also Survivors lack I-frames after coming off hook, so they don't exactly have an opportunity to begin with, when they can have their BT be procced before they have a chance to make a meaningful effort to prevent that. When that happens DS is more of 'a chance' than a 'second chance'.
The problem with DS, is how it is popular due to design flaws. As long as the design flaw exists, then need for anti-tunnel will exist. BT might as well have been basekit (With 3 selectable perks) before 6.1.0 because of how often tunneling occurred regardless. We need better incentives to leave hook or go after rescuers instead.
In general, I think each of the 6.1.0 perk nerfs should have been single nerfs instead of double nerfs. Also I'd prefer DS to have 5s stun than work in endgame if that was the choice factor, but honestly the Conspicuous Action change was good enough. The other issue with the 6.1.0 shakeup, was the perks nerfed felt fair. You could cleanse Ruin, earn Pop with hooks, not tunnel to avoid DS, use eyes to counter Iron Will. Compared to our current (soon to be gone) unearned 3-gen fare and CoH dual fortress perks. Those I will be glad to see gone, unlike their predecessors.
1 -
Someone deserves a 'free second chance' because they used the perk for it with hyper-specific conditions, (1 minute after unhook without touching anything to progress the game) it hardly is free. Otherwise why wouldn't someone use a perk that gives value regardless of the stage of the game, or a perk that helps reach that late game better? The Killer isn't without options, since they can still take down the unhooker and put them further into the map.
Also Survivors lack I-frames after coming off hook, so they don't exactly have an opportunity to begin with, when they can have their BT be procced before they have a chance to make a meaningful effort to prevent that. When that happens DS is more of 'a chance' than a 'second chance'.
When the exit gates have been powered 'not touching anything' isn't difficult.
There are plenty of perks that only work under specific conditions, DS is one of those. What do you do when you get hooked first even though you brought Deliverance? DC?
DS during endgame is simply one of those "win more when you're already winning" perks, and it had no counter play, so it was removed.
Whether you get hit immediately off the hook or not, you have a speed boost and 10 seconds grace period. If you can't make it somewhere safer in that time, that's the fault of the survivor team.
1 -
EGC deactivation was just stupid. This is good change.
But 3s stun? Let's hope you are facing one of the weak killers, because otherwise you just wasted perk slot even if the killer is absolutely fulfilling the perk's niche (is tunneling you right off hook). Conditional 6s chase prolongation is just not worth a perk slot.
2 -
Maybe try going after someone who didn't just get unhooked? Why should getting as little as one hook guarantee they die as long as it's endgame? The survivors succeeded in their objective by completing all gens but as long as the killer gets a single hook boom kill like no that's ridiculous
0 -
Go play killer for a while and see how this works for you (and assume DS would trigger like you want). That will show you why it doesn't work.
2 -
I have lol, as it is now I can get 1 kill or sometimes even more with basically no effort, and when I would get dsd and 4 outted it's bc I deserve it. Unless we wanna start spawning hatch at the last survivor's feet there's no reason for 4 outs to be as unrealistic as they currently are
0 -
Actually had the hatch spawn literally on the survivors feet last week. The survivor agreed it was bs lol
4ks are pretty uncommon while 4 survival are more common tbh. If a killer stops survivors from doing, say 2 gens, they fully deserve the 4k imo. Pity wins aren't meaningful and worse for the game since it discourages cooperation between survivors even in difficult situations. I'd say the same thing if a killer is getting wrecked in a game there shouldn't be a mechanism that guarantees a kill every game either. If you are losing just take the L and move on for either side.
2 -
I feel like Decisive Strike should get less stun for each generator... so if all generators but one are done you get 3 seconds. I dunno... maybe
0 -
If all gens are done then it's deactivated, for a good reason as already stated several times in this topic.
1 -
There's a massive difference between player responsibility and dev responsibility, just bc there's nothing else for the killer to do doesn't mean that doing it should be as effective as it is
0 -
But punishing survivors for playing smart is logical and justified?
0 -
Yes they do lol, for the purpose of escaping. Meanwhile the lack of ds/otr in endgame gives killers a boost that they didn't earn whatsoever
0 -
But doing all the gens doesn't warrant getting an escape? If you think getting literally one hook deserves a kill then, sorry but you're just incorrect
0 -
Getting one hook as bubba and then camping doesn't warrant a kill in the slightest, just because it gets you the kill doesn't mean it should
0 -
The point is that it's still a single hook, it doesn't warrant an extra boost of any kind. The survivors shouldn't be punished for getting all the gens done
0
