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Dead Hard: Please consider this BHVR, or respond if it's not feasible.
I come to you not as a survivor main, not as a killer main, but as a truly 50/50 player. Please someone at BHVR hear me because I feel like every person and every 4 out of 5 streamers that I've talked to about this thinks it's a good idea.
Make Dead Hard a charging perk, like Flash Bang, or Blast Mine. People earn charges by progressing the game like doing gens (1 gen = 1 charge?) or unhooking teammates (1 unhook = 1/4 charge?)
What this does is three fold:
1 - It still limits how many times a survivor can use Dead Hard. Even if he did every single gen on his own that would still only be 5 uses. Rescues every hooked player 1.5 uses (1.75 if you count 1 of your own unhooks)
2 - It makes people EARN Dead Hard by actually naturally progressing the game, instead of just running around like a jerk and letting Exhaustion expire only to do it again. There's no abuse of the perk at the sake of the killers sanity.
3 - Gives you more than 2 attempts (yes, not uses, attempts.) because just you being unhooked doesn't guarantee a successful Dead Hard, the killer could still tunnel you. You can miss-time it. The Killer can wait/bait it out. You can Sprint infinity times, Lithe Infinity Times, etc... you get the drift. Why is Dead Hard only attemptable twice?
The only possible downside I can think of is that it will encourage gen rushing, or unhooking etc... but thats what survivors are supposed to do anyways.
I know this means practically nothing, but Otz, Spooky, and other streamers I've asked/talked to all said "That could work" or "That actually sounds good" 1 Streamer said "not good" but it was about coding/programming more than the viability of it.
Please someone at BHVR look at this, and if it doesn't make sense, no harm no foul. If it's impossible to do, no harm no foul, I just want it seen because everyone I've talked to about it thinks it's a good idea.
If you're reading this, thank you for hearing me out! I really do appreciate it.
-3ggs_n_b4con (I'm cringe-ily signing it because I can't change my name that I'm aware of and this is an old as heck one)
Comments
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I mean, I don't hate it, but tbh just because streamers like it doesn't give it more validity to be added. If they want to add it, they will, unfortunately. You also have to take into account streamers could've just been nice to your idea and don't think it's that amazing of a change.
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Understood, that's why I prefaced that with "I know this means nothing" :) I do honestly believe they thought positively about it, not just blowing smoke.
edit: Oh I missed a part, it's not supposed to be amazing really, it's just meant to give it a little more than it currently is without going overboard. It encourages playing/progressing the game while rewarding with uses.
Thanks for weighing in on it though, I appreciate opinions/constructive criticisms.
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I like this a lot. The usage of DH is in between what you’re saying and what DH currently is but not as strong pre nerf.
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It's a shame the devs went back on the safe unhooks to get Dead Hard and just made it a weak anti-tunnel perk that benefits you more if the killer doesn't tunnel.
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It’s a shame that BHVR partially un-nerfed Dead Hard, and it’s still going to be awful and unfun to deal with.
I had to remove all the generator kicking regression perks from my loadouts, and Dead Hard should have gotten the original PTB nerf, so it can be just as awful as the generator kicking perks are now.
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Yeah that's what I was aiming for. Something a little better but not vastly overpowered or exploitable. All while promoting the natural flow of the game. Thanks for commenting, I appreciate that more people like it instead of me thinking I'm on crazy pills. :)
I play killer too, and really my biggest "ugh" moment is the first discovery that they are running it. After that (or if I even 'pre-test') all I have to do is bait the Dead hard and then it's a down. It's really not that inconvenient for me. Only when I make the mental mistake to not check, which IMO is on me.
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I like this. I'm a pyramid main and if I plan on tunneling someone dead hard Is pointless in its current form. I just aim my knife at the hook and pull when they come off. Tada! Deep wounds on exit and all perks pointless. (I don't do that often just using it as a example) the new perk isn't even good as a anti tunnel. I don't like dead hard as a killer but I understand why it's here. Just because I don't like something doesn't mean it should be nerfed into the ground.
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I'm a killer main and I agree that op's reworked DH ideas could work. But there is a caveat to this.
For example, some minor nerfs to the survivor's tool kit in other areas... but also some straight up buffs for killers in certain areas that were previously destroyed for no valid reasons (Hill Billy! Look at what they did to my boi! Legion, trapper and pig!)
Ultimately, 35% pick rate for DH was unreasonable. DH and CoH HAD TO GO.
But yeah, rework DH all you want! But if survivors start to auto-include it then no... nerf it then.
CoH... hell nah, get that out in the forever box stat.
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Actually your wording here makes me want to clarify something. It shouldn't be based upon total gen completion, it should be the "time" similar to Flashbang and Blast Mine. That way 2 people working on a gen completing it don't get a full charge of Dead Hard. Using Prove thyself won't get it faster for you either, and god forbid dumping a Brand New Part into a gen doesn't get you on your way to being able to use it.
To your point about "auto-include" I understand what you're saying but think of it this way... no one would just take it to meme all match, or to run the killer endlessly etc... they have to EARN it through playing the game. So... even if everyone did take it, wouldn't that either go unused, or benefit the natural flow of the game?
Thanks everyone for keeping the debate/suggestion alive, I appreciate the support AND critique I really want it to better the game, not just "get what I want" if that makes sense heh.
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Nah though. Dead hard is still good as it is. It should have been nuked off the face of the earth, but instead, it got a light little slap on the wrist. The last thing it needs is more potential activations over the course of a match.
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Thanks for the input, but I can't agree. 2 attempts per match (not successful uses, just attempts), and possibly encouraging the killer to just tunnel the recently unhooked doesn't seem like a solution that works for both sides. At least my way I'm limiting it's use in match but also providing extra use of it by progressing the match. I do appreciate you weighing in though.
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No, Dead Hard has been out of control for too long, these suggestions would only have merit if DH usage rate fell to 0% which isnt gonna happen. There is absolutely no reason to tempt fate with DH anymore and I think bHVR is tired of having to manage it.
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So you're only argument against my change proposal is "DH was out of control" when I'm attempting to control it from both sides of the game while still making it viable and not a tunnel magnet? I mean okay, thanks for the input I guess. I'll just have to agree to disagree.
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Yeah, and its unnecessary too since new DH is fine. Its up to you to convince me why I would want your idea.
bHVR's idea is way better, only two tries.
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Well then nothing I could say would change your mind, and that's fine. Again, thanks for your input here, appreciated. I just disagree, I think using other exhaustion perks endlessly but this one, just this one, is so game breaking that you can only use it twice doesn't seem valid to me. If you play the game, and earn say... 4 uses instead of 2 that is way less than before this change, but more than we have now which satisfies me.
It's all good though, thanks man.
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Well ofc it would satisfy you if you got more and more value out of one perk slot.
but bHVR has shown us, that's not how they roll anymore.
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You’re not trying to control it from both sides. You’re trying to give DH a massive un-nerf so that it’s way more useful than it currently is. DH should never again have more than 2 uses per game.
……and it really should only be 1 use per game, considering it’s an extra health state and a speed boost combined together.
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Compared to what it used to be, you're saying my change is a MASSIVE un-nerf? Going from Infinity attempts, to a max of 6 attempts (and that's if you literally do every gen by yourself, and are the only person rescuing people)
Meanwhile literally every other exhaustion perk is able to be used infinity times. I just don't think it's that drastic. It's also the only exhaustion perk that has a chance of not working as well.
Thanks for your input, I guess I just think it's not that bad. Dead Hard even before this nerf didn't solely break games into survivors favor. I play killer too, so I'm not just coming from a survivor only perspective. If you're bored of seeing it, I understand that, but treating it like it's causing killers to lose the majority of games I just don't see it.
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Your suggestion doesn't fix the issues with going against the perk.
Granted neither does Behavior's change, but still.
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Agreed. Going against the perk is just waiting or baiting them to waste their use of it. That hasn't changed since ever...
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Do you guys not understand that dead hard is the weakest exhaustion perk now. If you get tunneled (very high chance), you will be hit immediately off hook putting you in deep wound. You won't have any time to mend to even get a use out of dead hard. Let's say you did and you get hooked again. Now the killer knows you have it and it takes a simple mind game to bait it. Essentially dead hard is a one time use perk and is basically a way weaker overcome. If you truly believe in what you just stated you'll realize overcome is way better than a 2 attempts perk when previously overcome was very underutilized since it's nerf. Just because you can't bait dead hard properly it doesn't mean it's that much of a problematic perk to basically nerf it to the ground.
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I'm more referring to the fact that the effect it gives now is potentially insanely strong. To the tune of lengthening a chase by +50%. That's way too strong to not have any sort of Telegraphing.
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How is this different from Overcome? in fact it's worse because getting hit gives deep wound, and Overcome happens even on first chase at the start of the match. I can't tell you how to think, nor would I try, but it just seems to me like you are overvaluing the perk. If you factor in how many times people screw it up, or miss-time it it has way more ways to be ineffective than any other exhaustion perk.
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Everyone understands that. Do you not understand that for many of us that's exactly what we wanted to see last year! A proper nerf that pushes it firmly and decisively out of the meta never to return!
If its usage hits 0% I'll be satisfied. Until then they can't nerf it enough for my liking.
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Overcome isn't a third health state. All it is is making the post hit burst of speed longer. It's strong, but it does not and cannot warp the entire game around even its potential presence.
It's raw power is not as high as Dead Hard's so while it doesn't have any telegraphing, it doesn't need it.
Pre nerf Dead Hard on the other hand was so powerful and changed the dynamics of the chase so much that any killer who didn't try to play around it vs a survivor who hadn't shown an exhaustion perk was a fool. A perk that powerful should give hints that it’s in play.
Post nerf Dead Hard still has that potential level of power.. just only 2 times instead of 3+. That's why I like neither Behavior's change to it nor yours.
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Well I appreciate your input, even though you're wrong, the devil, and I hate you. :) KIDDING. I understand your opinion completely, I just don't agree with it. Thanks again.
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Okay but if I said that about current meta killer perks I would be in the wrong? Until their usage hits 0% I'll also be satisfied.
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It's a massive un-nerf compared to what it is now....... and what it is now is already a huge un-nerf from the original PTB version.
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Do you guys not understand that dead hard is the weakest exhaustion perk now.
Head On, Smash Hit.
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Head on + flashbang? Or how about decisive strike + head on + flashbang? Smash hit is easy value when killers are running spirit sury and enduring more often and don't respect pallets anymore. That's just my experience though.
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You underestimate what 2 uses can do.
Had a game last night where a successful DH on death hook kept me from dying, and extended the chase long enough for the final 2 gens to pop, leading me to get adrenaline, ultimately ending in a 4 man out. All that because of 1 dead hard, vs me dying with 2 gens left and my team possibly not coming back from it.
DH does not need more uses. Especially with killers confidently swinging now, it’s almost guaranteed value. It hasn’t left my loadout, and it’s still just as strong after the first chase.
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I don't necessarily disagree with you, that's a perfect scenario you're outlining there. However I've seen more tunneling off hook than I've seen situations like that. Considering there was no limit before, I don't think a couple extra uses are going to break the game, especially when you don't just "get" them, you have to do things in the game to earn them.
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