Is body blocking a fair technique?
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No.
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-"Similar to SWF in DBD not every game is against highly coordinated SWF teams but you'd swear it was the way people go on about it."
Every game is not a comp squad but even games with 2x 2 man swfs are far more difficult than 4 solo players.
-"You do accept that things have more recently been changed to the positive of the killer player which kinda blows away your "they never consider how it feels to play killer" comment."
I absolutely do not agree. This patch is way easier to play survivor than it is killer- like most patches. This patch made it impossible to defend generators so I expect more people to move to defending hooks.
-"I play trapper and Myers and have a great time, they are hardly "S tier" as people put it. "
Almost everybody I know who is a survivor main says they have a fun time playing killer. Almost everyone I know who is a highly skilled killer main regularly takes breaks from the game because this game is very stressful and often not fun.
-"you say stop being a parrot but you keep continuing to make the same mistake every post."
So are you accepting it's not fun when you play vs a comp squad and get absolutely dusted?
-"Otz can play however he wants to play to maintain his streak its not an indicator of poor game health"
Many people use Otz as the "wholesome" example of a killer main. He does look wholesome compared to say CMWinter but that's a different story. Truetalent understands the game very well and advocated we move the game for chases not hooks. Patrick pushed the game in a different direction and most people hate the result. Like him or not he has excellent game knowledge and pushed for good changes for the game.
-"not a really a fact but they do do less than what they did"
If we compare a pink mori in 2016 to a pink mori in 2023 how effective is one compared to the other? The original effect does not compare and offers a negative advantage to hooking as the animation takes longer.
If we compare 4x BNP in 2016 to 2023 we went from a 100% effect to a 25% effect.
There is no way you can spin these factsThis is a clear example of one side's tools got obliterated and one side did not. You are in some crazy denial mode when presented with undeniable facts.
-"Patch 6.1 was a pretty big buff and QOL change for killers"
That's the rhetoric of survivor mains.
Killer got weaker against SWF and stonger against solos. And then they gave solos HuD info including gen/healing percentages.
There's an old quote from one of the devs where the plan was :
- Make solo survivor closer to SWF (they did that).
- Buff Killer - they haven't done that yet.
-"But to claim that survivors get it all and killers get nothing really isn't that accurate."
Survivors get softer and more favorable adjustments than killers. This is a true factual statement that we could go line by line for every patch since 2016.
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What they should get rid of is the pick up off the unhook. That's one of the biggest bullshit ways to get multiple undeserving downs without doing anything other than camping and some of the most trash killers I go against do it. You want a pick up off the unhook only allow it once the last gen is done, like the reverse of Decisive Strike (it was killed after last gen, the pickup would be activated then). Or change it so that killers like Spirit or Nurse who can suddenly appear without camping can do it disallow it for anyone standing within like 4m of the hook for more than 2 or 3 seconds. I can't believe this camping incentive is still in the game, let alone was ever allowed to begin with.
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How else are the survivors meant to get all 4 ppl out?
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How is this serious lol. Bodyblocking to get a 4 out actually takes effort on top of getting all the gens done, meanwhile securing a kill like that takes zero. That's not a double standard, that's rewarding ppl who deserve it. Why should it be impossible for survivors to get a 4 out as a compensation for 1ks not being free? What an actual joke of a take
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Well yeah survivor is a team game, you'd expect a coordinated team to do better than a group of solos. Its harder but not impossible. As you keep implying.
Yeah if we cherry pick patches that predominately favor survivors then you could say killers don't get much but, the point being discussed here is your suggestion that killers never get consideration, which historically and currently isn't true. If you are going to say hyperbolic statements like "they never consider how it feels to play killer" then you need something to back that up with and you don't have it because even with recent patches the killer game is still better than the dismal examples you pulled from 7 years ago.
Is it perfect no, is it better than it was yeah, are the recent changes more survivor sided I'd say yeah they were preceded by some pretty good killer changes that you seem hell bent on ignoring.
Forget otz and Tru for a moment and try and have a few ideas about the game of your own. Nothing wrong with with taking in the perspective of others but seriously their opinion carries no more weight than anyone else's.
This isn't some complex topic that takes years of training and study to get an informed insight into, its a game with pretty basic mechanics.
That's the thing about streamers they belong to this really exclusive group called... anybody with an opinion and a camera. We lend them too much weight.
Finally yeah moris do suck now and as I've said before I'm bummed about that. They got changed too hard. BNP's have also been nerfed too not as much as moris have but the point is neither addon allows for a near immediate game ending experience for either side anymore and I think that's what they were trying to remove. Which they did for both just a lil too much for moris in my opinion, in that we are in agreement as I've said.
The rest of your points require me to be an uninformed "survivor main" but the reality is I play a ######### ton more killer than survivor and am mostly being accused of being a biased "killer main" on these forums. Thanks for being the first person to ever call me a survivor main its kinda funny. Guess my opinion has become less biased and more universal over time.
Engaging in tribal identity bias is one reason why a lot of your points lack validity, it renders you incapable of applying an unbiased detached critical assessment of changes, most of the complaining and suggestion posts made on these forums are corrupted by this kind of tribal identity bias often making them very un-objective.
I would propose, if you feel playing killer is as bad as it is... that maybe you aren't as good at killer as you think you are. That's ok neither am I, but its neither unfun nor stressful to play killer and if you are finding so then DBD may not be the game for you at least not the killer role.
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"-your suggestion that killers never get consideration, which historically and currently isn't true"
I said we could go line by line from every patch since 2016. Overall survivor has more favorable changes in addition to things that survivors hated getting changed quickly. This is a fact not an opinion.
-"are the recent changes more survivor sided I'd say yeah they were preceded by some pretty good killer changes that you seem hell bent on ignoring."
It sucks playing M1 killlers right now vs efficient people. If I added you to my friends list and had you play vs some pretty casual people on voice coms Im pretty sure we could make every game against you not fun - if we limited you to the really old and bad killers in desperate need of modernization. I could expect you can do the same for me.
The bottom line is that two killers work great because they have a complete kit and the rest do not. There's another thread for killer mains and most people are saying : weaker killers that needed regression are suffering.
-"Is it perfect no, is it better than it was yeah"
DBD is a worse game now than it was before the 6.1 patch. Yes DH sucked to play against but having no ability to contest generators is really stupid.
-"Forget otz and Tru for a moment and try and have a few ideas about the game of your own. Nothing wrong with with taking in the perspective of others but seriously their opinion carries no more weight than anyone else's."
The reason to bring up the industry big names is to remove ourselves from the equation. Maybe you play in a tiny region like Africa that is a meme in terms of difficulty (those were the days lol). Maybe you play at 4am due to work hours and your games are an outlier because you never play vs swfs. Maybe you only play Nurse and Blight and really dont "see what all the fuss is about". One of my friends who plays killer tanks his MMR to get easier games and often lets people go to prevent MMR gains; that's not going to be "normal" play either.
I have my own opinions about the game. I noticed that Sprint Burst has been a meta perk since 2016 for creating distance where none exists and as a result makes chases longer which makes the killer objective longer. Most people say these perks are "fine" and largely speaking I would agree until this patch. Why not make all the exhaustion perks be refreshed by being unhooked or unhooking? We could leave everything except DH in the "charged" category before a game starts. If that's too much we could make a killer perk to punish survivors in the exhausted state. Maybe while exhausted your aura is visible; if that's too much we could do something like while exhausted you repair generators at 50% speed. That would essentially give you time now that you would have to "pay for" later.
What happened net result this patch? Killer objectives got longer if you were using at least one regression perk well. Survivor objectives didn't really change because they still have crazy heal perks and can heal with adrenaline after rushing the gens (which was already meta last patch).
-"Finally yeah moris do suck now"
Why don't BNP suck equally? One is worse than not having it and the other does 25% of a generator. It's almost as if the rules for changing survivor and the rules for changing killer are completely different. What happened to the " DBD is a perfectly fair game rhetoric" you keep shoveling?
"That's the thing about streamers they belong to this really exclusive group"
We can look at all the big streamer players and most of them are very good at the game because nobody really keeps watching a (male) failure of a player no matter how entertaining they are.
Unlike most of the other "bozos with cameras" I think True and Otz know exactly what they are talking about. They are also generally better than most of the other options and on that note : excellence speaks for itself.
I don't agree with most of the ideas of Tofu, Hexy, Bronx (the secret Nemesis main), Hens, Dowsey, Scott Jund (especailly disagree with his ideas), etc.
-"Thanks for being the first person to ever call me a survivor"
I did no such thing and I call your reading comprehension skills into question. Many survivor mains posting as killer mains are saying : this is the greatest time ever to play killer (they said this last patch too). I think in many ways the game right now is horrible and in terms of "unfuness" reminds me of 2016 play in November.
-"I would propose, if you feel playing killer is as bad as it is... that maybe you aren't as good at killer as you think you are"
Let's talk about a different game for a minute. The name of the game doesn't matter. In mystery game X I was one of the top 2% of players looking at statistics. They changed the game mechanics over the years to make sure people like me don't exist anymore. If you have a "free to play" where people can win more than their share and actually "play for free" the model breaks. People really didn't like when you had "ace" players that could eliminate somewhere around 40-60% of the enemy team by themselves. After many many years of repeated nerfs to the style of play that made me nearly untouchable I would just be "average" if I started playing again. Therefore I choose not to play.
Someone like you is likey to say : maybe it was all luck and you were never really great to begin with. I have a very deep understanding of DBD and I play the game well. My kill rate was verified by one of the steam mods to be higher than Zubat's "back in the day".
I dont want to play Nurse/Blight because I view them as the extreme easy mode killers. Once you get over the learning curve you have the potential to stomp anyone no matter what. Let's take the #1 nurse main streamer and make them play Doctor. Let's schedule them some games with Hen's survivor team and see how that goes. If the nurse main gets floored does that mean they suck at DBD? No - it means their skill is neutralized when the parameters of the game change. That is what has happened to me with this patch.
No matter how lightly you want to word it this is the old trick of : you're not good at the game and therefore your opinion has no meaning. Shame on you.
At its core DBD is a time race game. Side A races to complete generators while Side B races to get kills (since defending generator is just "out" with this patch). Side A has a shorter objective than Side B when we look at "maximum possible" skill levels (if for example we could make pixel perfect AI play each other. This would be incredibly interesting btw because we could see the AI send each other messages in Norse code via hooks/ducks/points/waves and all kinds of nonsense people could never do).
I would propose that the removal of the ability to increase the survivor objective timer in a meaningful way (as a result of gen regression getting a 75% nerf) has shifted the time clock to be slightly too fast for the killers I enjoy playing.
After having played for 6 years I really don't think I will find a "eureka" moment where I get better to overcome the time changes. I already watch plenty of streamers who generally speaking have nothing left to teach me except for nuance tricks for killers I do not play (my watch time is roughtly equal if not higher than my play time). The solutions then become:
- Stop playing
- Stop playing Killer
- Play better Killers
None of these options feels great but I will pick option #1 or #2 before I pick option #3.
All I've ever wanted was a fair game. But to be blunt DBD has never tried to achieve that goal. The developer Dave gave us a quote from either 2016 or 2017 where he said something along the lines of : We enjoy that the game is unfair.
Most of the recent changes since 6.1 feel like a push to make the game feel good to casual players. MMR is hated by most people who are good at the game. I can say with certainty that noobs are far less likely to get stomped by veteran killers now than on the previous "rank reset days" we had before MMR was introduced.
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New to the game? I can think of several and no one has mentioned the one I'm talking about.
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You are talking to the wrong people. The game by kills and points are both heavily killer sided. When you say it is survivor friendly, what do you mean? It isn't by scores or kills so are you saying it is emotionally more fulfilling to be a survivor?
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Dunno why ppl are still discussing this issue as it is not.
There are two ways to get to the hook, the killer is blocking the short way, preventing a fast save to escape move.
The killer does not block access to the hook as you can go around the map and get access to it.
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There are many maps (corn maps come to mind) where you have an obstruction and there is really only 2 ways to grab a survivor. If a survivor comes from the left I can body block a gap left. They have to go around like 8 steps to the far side to go right. I go 3 steps right to block them from that side.
I do this all the time.
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Body blocking should works on both sides not only at 1. Surv must not be able to go through killer.
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Because that is not what we are discussing. We are talking about kill rooms where there is only one path to the hook and the killer body blocks it so a save is impossible. There is no going another way.
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For things such as this - where a hook is being blocked so survivors can't get to the hook or can't get the prompt to unhook, please report as a bug giving as much information as to the location as possible as these are things that are not desired and we have fixed many of these placements.
This is completely different to camping. Camping you can still make a save, trade hooks, work as a team to save etc. However with this type of body blocking you do not get that option, that's where the issue arises.
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Well it's definitely a bit unfair since you can't be I hooked seeing you just can't since there's only 1 entrance. Anyways, it's funny so that's cool.
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If you can when something like this happens take a screenshot or video and post in the bug report or even suggestion area if need be. They try to fix these types of areas I believe. It's one of the reasons they made the hooks swivel so that a survivor could be unhooked from all sides and a killer couldn't just block a save. The same with why the basement staircases were made wider as well.
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