is it game over at 2 survivors?
I played a bunch of solo survivor recently after not playing survivor for a long time, and a situation I kept running into was that once there were 2 survivors left, it was impossible to do any more gens; even with 4 gens remaining, 2 survivors working on the same gen couldn't finish it before the killer showed up, and then once the killer had downed and hooked a survivor the other one had to stop doing gens to go rescue them. Once it was down to only one survivor, then they had a fighting chance of finding the hatch or opening the gate once the killer had slammed the hatch, but with 2 survivors there was no chance of making progress.
and before anyone says "just bring toolboxes", we HAD brought toolboxes, we just used them up on the first gen we did, which may or may not have even gotten finished before the killer scared us off and kicked it.
Of course, this was SUPER bad against SM or Knight, but it was a problem with every other killer I faced as well. Then I switched back to killer and noticed the same results when I played Dredge and Pinhead; once there were 2 survivors left, even if there was only 1 gen left, it was game over because even if they were spread out they couldn't finish them faster than I could hunt them down. In one Pinhead match at Midwich, the 2 remaining survivors just gave up and stood together in the middle of the courtyard until I hooked them.
Has anyone else felt this is the case? I DO really suck as survivor, but when we got down to 2 survivors the other survivor wasn't doing any better than me, and when I was playing as killer (with whom I'm much higher MMR than survivor) the survivors there were in the same boat.
Comments
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yeah, when there's 2 survivors left there's basically no chance for the remaining two survivors
the one exception is if one survivor is great at keeping chase (staying just out of arm's length of the killer so the killer keeps chasing unsuccessfully) AND there's like half of one gen left so the other survivor can finish it and open the gate.
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If there's 2 gens left, it's definitely possible.
4 gens... technically possible, but only a friendly killer's gonna let that happen to them.
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Nah. I played a match yesterday where I was the last survivor with 3 gens left. I hunkered down at the edges of the map and evaded the killer to finish my gens, and popped the exit gate by myself. I won't lie, I didn't really think it would work out but it did. The game isn't over for sure unless you've been hooked and there's no one to rescue you.
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Yes, it's over
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how in the world could you do that unless the killer was AFK? And which killer? If the killer was patrolling gens, he could kick and regress them faster than you could repair them, and every time he saw a gen that wasn't regressing he'd know you were nearby. Unless you were tapping gens, and then somehow sneaking all the way over to a far away gen while he looked around your old location for a long time, but surely he would figure that out after a few times. And it especially wouldn't work once you were down to the last 3 gens.
Also why wouldn't you or the killer go for the hatch?
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Tbh unless there’s 1 gen left the game is over at 3 in most cases
But yeah 2 is just whoever is willing to die to give the other hatch
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I realized another problem of the game is 4 survivors alive are too strong but 3 survivors are too weak. Reason why tunneling is always the strong strat.
I really think 4 survivors alive should do Gen slower (75% may be?), and 3 survivors alive should do 133%, and 2 do 200%
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Only thing i could imagine is it was a killer who was just sitting on the hatch waiting for the survivor to come by. Still happens from time to time.
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Unless you're down to a single gen yeah it's over.
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Two or less and you have some resources still available? The odds are decent.
More than two and the killer is competent? Near zero chance and best to play for hatch.
I usually point to a locker so my teammate can hide in it while I go offer myself to the killer in hopes of moving on. If they slug me, it’s fine, I’ll crawl away and use Unbreakable. Then good luck finding me.
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There is a pretty small window of the amount of survivors and generators remaining where it's equal or advantageous survivability/death rate. Generally why people rush gens from the start.
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At 2 survivors left you are basically in panic mode. Can 2 gens be done? Well, if they have progress on them or one of the survivors left is an amazing looper, yes. But generally, no.
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In my experience, yes. At best one of those survivors will escape through the hatch but if the killer got the match down to 2 survivors and 3+ gens still needing to be done then the survivors have basically lost. I've always felt that gen requirement to power the doors should scale based on the amount of survivors left. Too often does the situation turn bad for survivors and the rest just give up and either try for the hatch or just afk and let the killer win. I notice very quick shifts in survivor behavior when they see someone downed, hooked or eliminated early. They know they are going to have to now pickup the weight of another player and stress themselves out more for a chance to escape. BPs aren't enough of an incentive to have to do this much in a match.
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With only 2 survivors left, it's only really possible if there's one gen remaining, and even then it already needs quite a bit of progress. 2 or more gens remaining there's no chance and that's why survivors will usually stop doing gens altogether and just hide.
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2 survivors left and more than 1 gen left is in most cases a 3/4K. I'd even say with 1 gen left is a sure 3K, likely 4K.
The game is just not balanced so that 2/3 survivors can do well against 1 killer, hence why an early death is so punishing.
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Before the update is was possible in soloq as it happened to me a lot. We took turns doing gens and looping the killer. There was also COH and it was a 50/50 shot. Now it's like a hail Mary or play rock, paper, scissors to find out who will be the sacrifice so at least one can find the hatch.
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The game is over when there are 3 survivors, unless you have god-like Ayrin-kind looper and mindless tunneler killer (latter one is frequent, but former one is totally unlikely)
Of course if it's not when it's EGC or last gen is almost done.
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Not only is it unrealistic, it's actually a bad play for a survivor to finish a gen in that scenario. Then it's a guaranteed 4k unless you have a miracle run or the killer just doesn't care about the 4k. Even if there's one gen remaining, the realistic outcome is the chase ends and the killer sees where the last gen is completed. Then nobody gets out. But there is a chance for someone to hide for hatch/gate if they don't do the gen.
It's a bit of a goofy problem in terms of trial pacing. The survivors really have no incentive to keep working the objective but it also creates a really stagnant gameflow scenario if they play it optimally and hide. Most survivors or killers just kind of say "screw it" on either end of the spectrum, but you do have those edge cases where both sides care and the trial drags for 5ever with a killer slugging for a 4k and a survivor hiding like they should.
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Two survivors can definitely win against me, because I'm bad at finding people. In an average game, though, I think you still have a chance if there are two gens, and a better chance if there's just one -- but at four gens you're definitely dead.
The trick as survivor is that, if you're in that scenario, you have to keep splitting up and you have to 99% the gen and be strategic about when to pop it -- ideally at a moment when your teammate is up and away from you, so someone will still be mobile if the killer comes straight to you.
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... yeah it's game over. You might have a wild story here and there but 90% of the time the games over. If you are lucky you might get a hatch game but most of the time you are getting slugged for 4k.
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Usually when 2 survivors are left, it's best to give up. If you or the other survivor are really good at keeping chase and there is one gen left, there is hope, otherwise no.
If the killer finds you first, then leave the hatch for the other survivor, vise versa.
Even that depends on the situation.
If the other survivor has been doing bad during the match, not being productive, 2 hooks on them whilst you have been doing great, being productive, having lots of points and no hooks on you, then you should try to get the hatch yourself. Heck, you deserve it. Vise versa, if you feel your teammate has been doing a better job and deserves the chance to escape, let them.
There is no point keeping the game longer than it should if the chances of both of you escaping are low. Like being 2 people with 4 gens.
And I'm not saying tank the match. If the killer finds you and you are 2 people with 4 gens, give the killer a chase and if you fall, give up on hook. Who knows, maybe a miracle will happen and you will do a 10-min chase and your teammate will be productive.
Usually the other survivor will try to hide away in lockers, on the edge of the map, the basement and will wait for you to die. If the match is taking too long and you can't do gens, I say give up.
Let the basement rat try to get the hatch.
Unless you're petty, then you know 😉 Bond is a great perk
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If you're a solo survivor, the sad reality is that the game is over the moment any of your teammates believe it to be over.
You can absolutely win a 2v1, but only if no one goes down. You and the last remaining survivor need to be flawless in chase, and you need to keep chase away from the gen being worked. In a 2v1, neither of you can afford to heal. Every second matters, and it needs to be spent working on gens, because the resources left on the map are effectively a sand timer--when they run out, the game ends.
Just yesterday I played a game that was 3v1 with 4 gens left. I took up chase with Legion, and the Kate decided to spectate my chase instead of work on gens. The Thalita completed 3 full gens by the time I went down, and I only went down because the Kate body blocked me on accident.
I was livid. Not only did I loop the Legion long enough for all 4 gens to be complete, but the survivor who didn't do anything for what... 6-7 minutes, was also the direct cause of my death.
That was only my first hook, but the damage had been done. The Legion 4k'd and my efforts were met with a smug Legion repeatedly M1ing me on hook.
I really wish this community wasn't plagued with a defeatist attitude. I typically blame hatch for my end game woes, but this recent update has shown me that my teammates will give up simply because they lack the desire to overcome adversity.
"Clutch or Kick" is a popular phrase that is thrown around in competitive online games. It's a jovial challenge for a teammate to rise above their current predicament, and help win the game for the team. While mostly an empty threat, the sentiment is an admirable one. In DBD, the popular phrase is "gg, go next." It's really sad.
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Did you cuss Kate? And praise that Thalita? Because my god she Gen jockied the hell out of that game. She was determined to escape.
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Yes. I've said for a long time that the EGC should automatically begin when there are two survivors left.
This situation just devolves into a tedious trade-a-thon with the remaining players just going through the motions until they are both dead.
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Everyone else in the lobby was cross-platform, so I think I was just shouting into the void post-game
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Yes. The game is basically unwinnable with 2 survivors barring some very specific circumstances. If the last gen was basically at 95% progress with someone working on it when the second player died/dc then it's possible to finish the gen and for the remaining 2 survivors to get out. Or if there is a gross player skill difference between the killers and survivors. But generally speaking, two survivors means no one is working gens and it is a game of which survivor manages to not get killed and find the hatch.
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In general if the number of gens is equal or higher then the remaining survivor players when somebody dies. It's really hard to catch back up.
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One problem with that, is how pressure is applied when a Survivor is unable to progress the game. (Slugged without a self-pickup, or on hook.)
In a normal match you can think of 4 Survivors progressing gens when they aren't pressured by something. At the start of the match 0 Survivors are pressured, so there is 4 gen progression points. When the first Survivor enters chase, it drops to 3. When that Survivor gets hooked, someone has to get off gens to rescue the hooked Surv, dropping it further to 2. If the Killer chases the would-be rescuer, someone else needs to hop off a gen dropping it again to 1. If you have only 3 Survivors, those pressure numbers are all decreased by 1, making the chase of a would-be rescuer a death spiral with no one progressing gens.
I definitely agree that 4 Survivors uninterrupted on gens (or even 3) yield too much strength for Killer to handle for an extended period of time. Typically, skilled Killers can quickly find someone through perk value, or a crow, or macro map awareness (do people usually hide in a bush on Dead Dawg?). Players newer/weaker at Killer lack the skill or perk crutch (like I use Lethal Pursuer on most Killers) to prevent the game from snowballing out of control in the earlygame. I wouldn't be against a rancor styled loud noise for both sides to show the spawns of the opposition's position, as long as charge based killers started on cooldown (Blight/Nurse in particular). This would also heavily encourage people to not be AFK at the start, as I hate when my soloq teammates give the Killer a free injury or hook because they left. This might be a slight nerf to Stealth Killers, so maybe have it be an optional toggle on the Killer's end. This way those charge Killers could also rely on their ability to find people if they wanted to start with all their charges.
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Pretty much. I just sit on a gen until the killer finds me.
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expected by... like... your youth pastor? :D
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I don't think so. I mean, each match is a completely unique case. Recently I had two games were I found myself in this scenario, both on solo q
In one game, we went against a Clown in Midwich who camped pretty early on. The gens weren't even flying at all to be fair, which should be the best counter for him camping. At a point, he had me (healthy) and another person injured with 1 or 2 gens remaining while he hooked another one (the fourth was already dead at this point). Then we split up and managed to finish both gens. I healed the other one and we divided, each near a gate, while the Clown kept patrolling the gates with aid of his bottles. The other player screamed and as soon as he did, the Clown went for him and I for my gate. The Clown did get the down and hook him close to the door which was still locked, but luckily I managed to sneak close and although he camped for a while, there was an open when he went for the gate I advanced and there I took the chance. As soon as the other survivor got unhooked, we both split up, him going to the open gate and me trying to get the Clown upstairs after getting injured. This could end up with him hooking me and we only having 1 escape, but to my luck he tried to go for the unhooked survivor who bought me enough time to do my own escape.
On a second game against a Legion with Jolt + Pain Res, we had an early DC and the guy was getting quite a lot of regression on moments that were crucial. At the end, we needed 2 gens with only me and a Nea remaining and by my count he still had 1 Pain Res. We managed to finish the gen at the center of the map (after it being brought down from around 80% to 40%) then I got his attention to a zone were there were no gens left while I knew the Nea was advancing a gen thanks to the HUD. When he finally dropped chase with me, she got the gen done. In the end of this one, Nea got downed before I could reach her to take a protection hit and that was her first hook yet. Ended being a 1 escape only but still, the major part of the game happened after we were down to 2 survivors.
My thought is, each match plays different and so does the killers. I rather go through till the end trying whatever I can to advance it then just accept it as over (though there are indeed times when there is just no viable way of winning, like, try doing 4 gens with only 2 survs, though again, not impossible). The worst thing about it imo is when the other side just goes full stealth hoping you die so they can try for hatch, same when killer chooses to just slug repeatedly to seek out the last one instead of hooking and taking chances at a hatch game.
Simply put, to me, it's not game over as long as someone is still trying or at least the timer is up and/or everyone at a hook.
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no not really, it aint easy, but it aint over till all are dead or out the door.
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I'm not saying I was playing against a terrific killer. You don't have to get so up in arms about it though, I'm just saying the game clearly wasn't over because I finished it. It was a Hillbilly. Them closing the hatch wouldn't have done anything if I wasn't going to go for it in the first place, which I wasn't. Because he would have easily found me if I had done so. I finished the gens towards the edges of the map and skipped the closest one nearby and never ran. Just because you wouldn't have escaped doesn't mean it can't be done.
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It's rare. Well, it's extremely rare actually, but it has happened once before that I can remember. We only had 1 gen left though on Hawkins. This is a real exception though. 2 left after gens are done is easily possible, but if there are 2 gens or more it's extremely unlikely.
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With 5 gens left to repair? Probably. With 1 or 2 left to repair? Maybe not. With the exit gates power? Nah.
It all ultimately relies on the skill (or lack thereof) of the players.
For an extreme example, I once had a survivor match with a friend (not on comms), we ended up on Lerys against a Clown. The other two survivors got themselves downed and hooked relatively quickly (before the first gen was finished) they both took their chances and gave up on first hook. My and my friend then proceeded to tag team being chased by the killer, evading and/or running them for long enough to repair all 4.5 gens remaining between us, and escaped.
I haven't had a game quite that miraculously one-sided for a long time, but it nevertheless happened, and other similar turn-arounds have occurred on a slightly less extreme scale, which means it can happen again.
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Don't tank the match but keep on trying. One of the worst matches I ever had was an escape after 40 very tedious minutes and that was because of a locker camping Claudette. It was a very inexperienced Huntress on the old Eyrie of Crows while I had a build that was great for Eyrie.
The Huntress killed two of the inexperienced Survivors by tunneling them out. The Claudette just locker camped while I slowly repaired the three remaining generators.
Just to be clear, my resentment from that game was directed at the Claudette. If instead of hopping lockers the Claudette had tried to repair gens the game would have ended much sooner and it was selfish to just sit in a locker while I did everything.
I have had a few games where, at two survivors left, we did escape but you'll never see that if you just give up. You'll most likely die but you can, at least, learn something. Just don't ever be the 'Doing gens, you?' person (if you don't know the reference Noob3 had a solo queue escape streak ended when, after over 20 minutes or so of running a Pig, the other remaining survivor in a match hid and didn't touch a gen.)
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