Since I started tunneling every game, I have yet to lose
All matches are 4k except for a few that were 3k because the last survivor escaped through the hatch. I don't slug for 4k.
I used to hate being tunneled and also tunneling people if I was the killer, but I just said f¨¨k it, let's do it. Why not?
What's the point of not tunneling if there is nothing in the game that prevents or punishes you for doing that? It's just the most efficient way to win.
I also stopped complaining about killers tunneling in my survivor games because, if that happens to me, I just die on second hook GGWP and move on. I have been playing only SWF too and the people playing with me kinda have the same mindset. I gave up solo queue completely since the release of the newest patch.
I still advocate for changes. I think tunneling should be impossible, and I have really hardcore ideas to change that, such as the unhooked survivor having endless invincibility until conspicuous action
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Tunnelling is here to stay tbh. I don’t do it personally since I just don’t enjoy it. I’ve even started running Grim embrace, New Pain resonance and no way out to force me not to
But if you have more fun doing it then do it
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Tunneling has always been the most efficient strategy,i'm surpised it took people almost 7 years to realize that.
If you want tunneling changed you need the whole game to change on a fundamental level.First of all,dead by daylight tries to portray itself as a horror game,you should never be invincible from the killer in a horror game.Second of all and most importantly if you nerf tunneling good killer facing equally skilled survivors will be out of options to win.When all gens can get repaired in 4 minutes i don't care how quick your chases are,if you are unable to eliminate a survivor early you WILL lose vs amazing teams.(look at tournaments,while most teams will be worse than said players,the ability to chose a survivor sided map,and bring multiple toolboxes and strong perks makes high caliber survivor squad be more oppressive than tournament level players)
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Tunneling was always the easiest way to win. However I will never be saying ggwp to a killer who instantly tunnels.
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Dbd is not a horror game
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It wasn't the most efficient strategy for 7 years.
It became the de facto most efficient strategy last July. It was far, far less of a problem before that.
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It isn't,but the developers market it and develop it as such.The "vibe" the game gives off is more important to them than the quality of the game.There are many killers which are conceptually amazing but horrible gameplay wise.Survivors aren't meant to be the teens in vhs that fight back,they are meant to flee and hide and the developers seem the develop the game around that idea.A survivors being invincible removes all immersion.
Just proving my point further.Dbd is a party game for the majority of the community.Almost no one cares about optimizing and as a result you and most people don't realize how powerful tunneling has always been, you only see it now when tunneling's value has sky rocketed.I can write a 10 page thesis on why tunneling is so powerful,and the reasoning lies at a fundamental level.A few changes in perks don't destroy tunneling.Old ds didn't make tunneling people beforehand unviable or anything.Making the game a 1 v 3 will always top getting a hook on everyone,there has never been any incentive to spread hooks.
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But this is a game in the first place. Just because it has horror elements it doesn't mean the game can't be balanced in a way that broken gameplay styles will be abused.
It would be the same as any other typical horror game that, if you die, you just reload a save.
Invincibility is completely fine for this.
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You don't seen the understand that the philosophy the developers follow cannot allow such a change to happen.Look at pyramid head he is a tunneling machine and its 100% intended.Cages only work with kinship.You don't get any basetime bt or ms boost.You are out of the cage and fresh meat.Tunneling isn't frowned upon by the devs,its not an exploit and it doesn't break immersion.There are many killers who rely on it as a mechanic for their power.
Even basekit bt crosses the line of the atmosphere the devs intend on making.I reckon it was added since coordinated teams only needed to run 2 and ensure the rescuer had it,meanwhile soloque players risked getting downed with no counterplay since it was outside of their control whether your teammates brought it or not.Even when introduced it was obviously not an anti tunneling feature,and more of a get to a tile and don't die instantly mechanic.
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Tunneling is bad for this game. No one likes being chased down right off the hook.
"Tunneling isn't frowned upon by the devs, its not an exploit and it doesn't break immersion."
Yea... it just makes people not want to play the game. If survivors do not have some kind of viable way to counter a tunneling killer then it remains a problem. If survivors had a way to not be seen by the killer for a few seconds after being unhooked then tunneling would probably not be an issue anymore.
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One reason it's so easy is because the killer can lobby shop until he gets a lobby full of noobs. If you want to go a step further then you can also check their profile to see hour counts in order to find the weakest player. "Ok this guy named xXchasemeplz420Xx has 7000 hours so if I tunnel him then it might be risky. Meanwhile this other guy has 150 hours and is probably an easy target." It's kind of ridiculous that killers still get this much information about who they're playing against.
Tunneling can be countered to some degree with perks and skill but the people who can counter it are almost never the ones who get tunneled. I'm not a god at this game but I do notice that killers will often actively avoid me in favor of my less experienced teammates who have absolutely no chance against them. That's really the core of the problem. Tunneling is not an expression of skill at all. It's just a way to bully players who can't fight back. It's the equivalent of the toxic SWF that bullies the 100 hour trapper and acts like they're amazing because of it. Of course you're going to win when you tunnel someone who has no meta perks and can't loop. It's also why so many people want SWFs deleted from the game. They can't handle it when a team is actually good and there is no weak link that can be tunneled out at four gens.
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The devs continually offer less incentive to spread pressure. With the recent gen perk nerfs, killers have to play even more defensively than before to win. As someone who plays both sides, I get that it’s frustrating to deal with. On the other hand, it is incredibly frustrating as killer to have to deal with linked safe loops and unwinnable chases. The game would probably have to be redesigned to be fixed.
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Yes tunneling/camping wins games and in fact now you need to tunnel or camp to win if you spread hooks you end up getting 8 hooks but not single kill. So at some poing you have to tunnel and take someone out or camp if there is opportunity.
Just played 2 games other with 9 hooks and 1K and other 4K with 11 hooks. First game I intentionally did not tunnel and always went after different targets I had opportunities take people out with camping or tunneling but didn't so then I notice I have 8 hooks but all gens got done and everyones alive so I was only able to get 1K.
Next game I decided I will tunnel/camp if I get opportunity. So I got 5 hooks and notice 2 gens left so now is time to get someone out and one survivor was on struggle phase on hook about to die and I had 99 tier 3 on myers so I decided to camp and popped the tier 3 on rescuers. Then hooked them and won the game quickly. Now if I didn't camp/tunnel same would happen like in last game 8 hooks without any kill.
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People have been saying that tunneling is going to cause the game to die for years and yet here we are. If tunneling was really hurting the game's popularity, the devs would have made bigger changes than what we've gotten.
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That sounds like a fun wholesome build to try. I wish BBQ gave a small bonus for stacks, even if it was only like 25% max.
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So basically "I am losing" *activates tunnel mode* "I am now winning.
This is generally why incentives wouldn't work, lol
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How about that invicibility wears off once killer hooks another survivor. Then it's not tunneling anymore. But killers would need to be buffed if this would be put on game as you don't win often games going for 8 hooks before first kill at some point you need someone out and usually tunneling is needed to do that. Sometimes I get lucky and get someone out without tunneling as my 5-6 hooks which is even now viable strat but that does not happen often. So we have to expect killer getting minimium 6 hooks before first kill if tunneling was removed from game.
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If tunneling was removed from the game then there would be no need for quick gens (except maybe, maybe if camping increases). Tunneling is a big reason gen speeds stay like it is right now.
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I'm not advocating for tunneling per say,i would love for 12 hooking to be viable,but you can't just outright remove it.
That being said tunneling has plenty of counterplay.Its a risky strategy due to the virtue of putting all your eggs into one basket.You need to go all the way through with the kill.If the survivor is running to a safe tile or building you have to commit.If they have survivors bodyblocking you can't just switch targets for an easier chase.Not to mention if you lose them and they hide you outright lost the game.Ds and OtR exist as perks to counter it.Don't hit me with bs that the killer can just hit you off hook or that 3 seconds is nothing.In the hands of a good player it buys plenty of time,that the killer cannot go around for your team to do gens.
Tunneling is also akin to "gen rushing".Its plain simply playing effectively,regardless of how fun it is for the other side.Why would i chase the healthy unhooker who gives me nothing by hooking him when i can make the game a 1 v 3.Until this question gets a valid answer through changes,tunneling will sadly always be among us.
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Every good killer looks to make the game a 1 v 3 at some point. Whether is hard tunneling or opportunistic tunneling,not taking a player out of the game by the midway point is making a mistake.Watch any high level killer,even the angel otz does it.
Yes if tunneling was removed it would call for an enumerable amount of changes,which is why the devs don't bother with it.You can't just make gens take an extra 10 seconds.That being said it would be impossible to outright remove tunneling from the game.At worst killers will just tunnel two survivors at the same time or find another way to exploit it.
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As long as killers have the mentality that only kills count as a victory, this will never change.
Only with extreme measures like giving invincibility to unhooked survivors (which would be abused by swf's so it would never happen) would tunneling disappear.
You can say all you want and give other options like not giving bp for tunneling but that wouldn't stop it. It might stop a few but it won't stop everyone.
Others say to decrease gen speed. That would make soloq even more unbearable than what already is.
Honestly, it's not an easy problem to solve
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The devs have literally stated that kills are the victory condition when they implemented MMR. You can't get mad at killers for trying to win based on the only win condition given to them.
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Why would hooks mean anything.If i get an 8 hook game followed by a bag at the exit and an easy baby killer in all chat i don't feel accomplished. If i had pooled my efforts and had a better target priority that game could have ended in a 4k and even more hooks.
No one is really playing for hooks.There is no incentive to.Its a poor game plan,you are not winning your 1 v 1 against another player,and you are failing at the role of killer(you are supposed to be killing people i'm pretty sure).It feels bad to get 0-1 kills in a game regardless of how hooks you secured.
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Can you start recording or at least stream your win streak? I’d like to see your actual results and the caliber of your opponents.
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How about these suggested changes:
•Give basekit Off The Record and Guardian
•Give 10 seconds of basekit Kindred after a survivor is hooked so teammates know if a killer is proxy camping or leaving the hook.
•Buff Unbreakable so I can be used up to 3 times per trial.
These changes would make tunneling, camping, and slugging significantly weaker. This is coming from someone who tunnels every match and thinks slugging is fun.
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I don't think tunneling should be impossible but it also shouldn't be stupid easy. I think the survivor who gets off hook should be immune to aura reading effects and leave no scratch marks/pools of blood for 30-45 seconds. This gives them a fair chance to lose the killer and reposition
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To me, that's just another problem of the playerbase.
We are so focused on playing the most efficient way that we actually stop having fun with what is supposed to be a game. We get so irked with such stupid stuff like teabagging.
I'm not saying the job of a killer isn't to kill, of course it is. The problem comes when people tunnel someone out of the game, ruining the fun for that person and most likely the others.
I know it's not fun for some killers to not get kills. Personally, I only get mad when I get very few hooks and no kills. If I get a lot of hooks and maybe 1 kill, to me it really was an ok game, specially if against a sfw.
But I understand that this mentality isn't for everyone, that's why I said it's not an easy problem to solve.
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I'm not debating that tunneling wouldn't be better of removed.All im point out are flaws in yours and other people's common suggestions.You can't just outright remove such a core part of the game.
Regarding mentality you can't really tell people how to play the game.It would be like telling survivors to stop worring about gens or escaping and instead count how many unhooks they had or celebrate having a chase take longer than a minute.You can't tell other people how to play, what a satisfying game is for them or trying to make up a new win condition.
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And I agree with that! Like I said, it's not an easy problem to solve.
Unless they rework the game completely, it's not a problem that is going away. Which is a shame honestly. I really think this will only hurt the game in the long run. Killers tunnel to get easy games, survivors, specially soloq, get tired of playing. Killer's mmr increases due to inflated kills, starts getting coordinated sfw's that somewhat know how to counter this and begins to get tired of the game aswell.
It's a spiral of disdain and hate =/
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And yet it is still one of the biggest complaints from survivors to this day. I wasn't trying to make the argument that the game would die from it although I do think if most killers made it their primary focus every match its a possibility. I am just saying tunneling overall is not good for the survivor experience in this game. Back when my friends still played DBD we did SWF and the thing we talked about most was tunneling. It happened all the time and I can't tell you how many times we collectively agreed to just switch to something else because of this. Even with 4 of us in comms with over 10,000 hours experience in the game we still weren't able to always effectively deal with tunnelers. We have seen some changes to address tunneling such as the basekit BT effect all survivors have now, but it isn't enough since tunneling is still a common subject here and in the general conversation of the game. Those gens aren't getting repaired faster if the killer decides to hard focus one survivor out of the match. Even if another survivor is trying to intervene, they both will eventually go down and 2 survivors aren't going to pump out 5 gens before that situation goes to hell.
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A ten page thesis seems a bit much. It's easy to understand in a few sentences. People right off the hook are easier prey. Most survivors will stop doing gens in a desperate attempt to save the tunneled person. In short it works because survivors feel bad for the tunneled person.
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Well kills are the victory goal, get 4 kills, mmr goes up. That's a win
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Why are you acting like the first game was a bad one? 9 hooks means you did very well. Why is everyone obsessed with getting 4ks?
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It is the easiest way.
However, I wonder when many people (not saying yourself, just generally) who play as killer become frustrated at the game and survivors are those who use this tactic to get higher up mmr, only to then come across survivors well above the killer's skill level, because the tunnelling and camping quite simply doesn't allow those killer players to improve (because it is easy). By struggling to improve mmr by any means, they ultimately may make their experience miserable overall.
I do think that BHVR need to change the winning criteria to hooks over kills for killer. Likewise, for survivors they need to make the criteria more about their overall average in the 4 criterias they are scored in, rather than escapes alone. This may result in a healthier view of the game overall.
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Is it really a core part of the game? I have my doubts that developers would be fine with purposely adding a mechanic like that.
It would be like adding a 2x multiplier on the right side of the gen so that if survivors are losing they can switch sides to gain an advantage.
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Most survivors don't know how to effectively deal with a tunneling killer. "In the hands of a good player" is not a good argument for the community as a whole. The casual players of DBD far outnumber the elite who know how to deal with these hard situations. We shouldn't be expected to play on the same level as the best players in the game to mitigate a situation that never should have become this much of a problem to begin with. The survivor experience should not include being eliminated from matches so fast that you didn't even feel like you got the chance to play one. I would also argue gen rushing is largely the result of killers tunneling over the years.
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And the casual player is horrible at the game.Do you really want to game to be balanced around said people?Veterans and dedicated players should be the ones retained,they will not jump ship when their friend group does or when a new hot thing is out,they will keep the game alive,it's the same philosophy gacha games use,focus on a small more dedicated group to keep your whole game afloat.
Gen rushing being the result of killer's actions is laughable.In the exact vain as tunneling its the result of bad design.Why would someone do something wrong or less efficient on purpose when it isn't even more fun or rewarding. The killer can only chase one survivor if you are not being chased you should be doing gens(there are exceptions ofcourse but they do not disprove the rule),not looking for bones,or hiding from a terror radius.Survivors have nothing else to do,them doing gens efficiently is perfectly reasonable.
The sad reality of this game is when either side plays as efficiently as possible the game becomes unfun.Losing all gens in 5 minutes,or having a survivor die 2-3 minutes into the match are both unfun situations.You mentioned the casual survivors not having fun but i would argue neither are killers,imaging facing 3k hour swfs when playing at peak hours,cause there is no one else to fill the lobby,even worse as killer you don't even have the perks necessary to compete as they are all scattered on dlc characters,so if you are going to bring up the casual player base( the guys who play 10 hours a week max,and don't watch yt or twitter) killers have it worse.
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Yes I do want the game balanced around the casual player because they make up the majority of players. DBD isn't held together by the top small percent of players who think winning at any cost is the only thing that matters. Its held together by the group of friends who login together and do random shenanigans with lots of laughs and jump scares as they talk about it all in discord. Players like that should be the target audience over those who want to treat the game as some kind of competitive esport.
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Lmao it literally is.
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And your solution is to nerf killers to accommodate for casual survivor players?Baring the fact that tunneling is the least concerning barrier for casuals(the grind for perks is horrid,the learning curve is deceptively rough,killers with unfun counterplay) the game also needs killer players,the game isnt a playground for survivors where one sided is forgotten.The game has been lacking GOOD killer players for years,as a result new killers are meat to the slaughter for veterans to tear apart since mmr prioritizes fast games when no one can fill their place.As a result killers continue to bleed out players,but sure the poor survivors need more attention.
Also fyi the average survivor isn't a 4 or 3 man team.Most people play this game alone or as a duo,so you description of the casual playerbase is already inaccurate.
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No... my solution is to balance the game in a way that appeals to the majority of players. Tunneling as a strategy is an unstable foundation for this game. I don't want killers nerfed to an unfun level. I want the game fundamentally changed so that tunneling doesn't even need to be considered but also not replaced by something that is just as toxic. DBD is way more fun to play with friends than it is alone so what matters is designing the game around this idea that will appeal to and encourage more people to play and play together.
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What are these then
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Tunnelling is fine, because it's a game. Glad you see that now and have learned to ggwp and not complain. Honestly the only person hurt by letting it get under your skin is you, so well done for letting that go 👌
Hopefully others can learn from you
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Tunneling can happen without perks... but countering it takes perks
Camping can happen without perks... but countering it takes perks
Tunneling Gens can happen without perks.... but countering it takes perks
Camping Gens can happen without perks... but countering it takes perks
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Increasing gen times a lot would be boring for survivors. I rather have some middle ground solution hard tunneling should be nerfed where killer only chase one survivor and pretty much ignores others even at 4-5 gens. But when it's 1-2 gen left, killer need's someone out and that can involve tunneling.
I suggest tunneling survivor between after first hook should be made difficult. Then gens could be increased bit to compensate and killers should be rewarded more for spreading hooks. Sometines now when you spread hooks you notice you're losing and need to tunnel someone out and that's fine. Because the survivor had chance to play the game normally and eventually killer needs to kill survivors if he wants to win.
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But that's just another bandaid. It doesn't fix the problem. Tunneling would still occur and it will feel just as terrible as before.
Killer doesn't need a catch up mechanic or a "make my life easier" mechanic. If you do poorly in a game you should lose, for both sides. You should design the game so that both sides have an equal chance at winning.
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I think it should balance around the casual player which includes SWF casuals. There are some sweaty SWF teams, but I doubt most of them are like this. When I did SWF we had over 10k hours experience with DBD and we valued our random goofy fun more than winning all the time. When even the killer gets a good laugh at the end of the match and thanks us for being a fun team to play against you know things are going well. Casual players can't effectively deal with sweaty killer strategies that are largely seen as toxic, like tunneling. I said before I think the game needs to fundamentally change in a way that tunneling is not even a possibility nor something the killer ever feels they need to do to win or regain an advantage. As far as what that change could be I don't know. Perhaps longer matches would help, but that would mean making gens take longer to do which survivors don't like. I've also thought about the idea of removing the hook timer altogether, at least on the first hook, which would encourage killers to focus on other survivors more since they are gaining no progress by camping or staying close to the hooked survivor. So long as the killer has a decent amount of distance from the hooked survivor, tunneling is far less likely to happen.
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This is how killers have to play for kills unless the survivors suck @ss and can't loop for more then 10 seconds.
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I noticed it was a joke when I saw cute Christmas Dredge
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I have to disagree tunneling does not feel bad when you know killer needs someone out if he wants any chance to win when it's 1-2 gens left. You had chance to do gens, saves even chases so that's fine and if you play well you can still make him lose and escape.
But when killer hard tunnels you 5 gens left that feels bad because he easily could win other way and you are not able to play the game normally at all. Then it's just trying to buy your team as much time as possible but usually these killers camp you as well making the have difficult so often you die on hook as well. Sometimes you can escape if you play very well but usually you're dead because killer only wants you out.
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There are a lot of people who talk about tunneling “ruining fun for survivors”, but few who acknowledge the frustration of playing killer and having all 5 gens pop by the time you get your 2nd hook because survivors all brought toolboxes and gen speed perks. That’s not much fun for the killer, who let’s not forget is also a human player trying to enjoy the game. I play both sides and I completely understand why some killers tunnel. Sometimes it’s the only thing you can do to secure a kill. If you can consistently get kills with zero tunneling, then great for you, but realize that not everyone is as skilled as you are and probably never will be. Let those players try to enjoy the game too.
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