Why survivors are so unnerfable?
Title.
I am not even sad or angry.
Just curious.
Why survivors are so unnerfable?
Like....they seems can't afford any kind of tiny nerf.
They literally act like BE killing the survivor's experience totally by just a such little nerf and with the Same time the killer's meta perk being nerfed the fourth or fifth time.
Just.....how?
I mean when is the last time survivor got nerf before this patch?
6.1.0?
We are already in the 6.7.0 now.
Survivor got the first nerf in 7 patchs and they can act that BE is a killer main.
Just WOW.
Comments
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Healing nerfs.
DH killed off.
Med-Kit nerfs.
CoH massively nerfed.
Those were all THIS patch.
DS got killed.
Less distance on hit.
DH's rework.
Gen times increased.
I could keep going. The game is pretty balanced at the moment, if anything, it's slightly Killer-sided.
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Try to keep going.
You already need to dig the history that 7 patchs ago and half of their nerf are so tiny or even isn't really a nerf.
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Is every patch supposed to include nerfs?
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Hold it, let them cook.
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The games pretty well balanced. There's a couple outliers, but it doesn't need nerfs every patch.
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Biased?
1.Healing nerfs.
Which doesn't even exist
2.DH killed off.
3 times used->minimum 2 time used
3.Med-Kit nerfs.
heal time 16 ->24
4.CoH massively nerfed.
Can't selfcare i would said is big.
Those were all THIS patch.
DS got killed.
5sec -> 3sec is big, even though it was 3 sec before.
Less distance on hit.
1.2 meter less, which is unnoticeable.
DH's rework.
It's not even a nerf.
Gen times increased.
50 secs,i would said is big.
Post edited by Rizzo on2 -
Damn…
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Maybe not.
But 7 patchs long should long enough to let survivor accept their nerf peacefully.
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Healing nerfs were incredibly substantial. Being able to heal yourself is the strongest ability in the game. Making it take longer is a HUGE nerf.
DH can't be used in the first chase. It can also be completely avoided by tunneling. It's also still easy to bait out. Huge nerfs.
That's a massive increase in self-healing speed, yes. I was more talking about the addons. No more 5 heal medkits. No more 6 second heals.
Less distance on hit is huge. That's the difference between making a pallet and getting hit.
DH's rework was a massive nerf. That's just recency bias at its finest.
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Uhhh have you read the patch notes?
Healing nerf is cancelled, that is why i said it doesn't even exist.
Dh is only nerfing 1 time less, and if you unhook someone it's unchanged, the *nerf* don't really change anything about tunnel.
Self care speed is even longer than the seven patches ago,i could not even remember when .
Yeah distance is huge,if it's not only 1.2 meters, you know survivor can run 4m/sec right?
Dh rework is a rework,it makes you can't brain dead gain distance, but reward you more from being hit.
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I wouldn't call the nerfs small.
The real nerf to healing is the amount of times you can do it. Before a single yellow medkit with one common addon was enough for 2 heals. Now that's the best possible medkit you can have.
Deadhard didn't one use less it went from infinite to a max of 2. Now if you hit a deadhard you can let them go and bother other survivors. They won't have it for next chase. In the past you couldn't cause they would just have it again.
1.2 meters takes the killer 2 seconds to catch up. That's 8 more meters a survivor can make it to a pallet. It makes quite the difference.
That said, I do agree that survivors are overexaguratting. Medkits are still strong, DH is still strong. Just because something is weaker then before doesn't mean it's useless.
I think the biggest frustration survivors have now is that they are less independant. Which means being more dependent on your team. Which in soloq means suffering and hellfire
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Did -you- read the patch notes? Medkit self-healing takes 50% longer. That is a healing nerf.
'DH is one time less' - Okay, but even in your example, that's a 33% nerf, that's pretty big. And it's specifically the first chase where it's gone, which is the most important one as it's where survivors have to get the majority of their progress.
It's not 1.2 meters, it's more than that, because the changes compound. Also keep in mind that these 'small' changes add up over time every match.
What nerfs have killers gotten that -aren't- to perks, which can simply be replaced?
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Self-Healing takes 50% longer.
DH only procs if you get unhooked, not if you unhook someone. It also deactivates if you whiff, you'll need to get unhooked again to use it.
It's a significant nerf.
DH rework was a nerf. Calling it anything else is untrue.
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Evidently you lack historical perspective. Over the history of the game survivors have been nerfed countless times. Killers rarely are nerfed. I'm not referring to perks but killers themselves. They've been buffed throughout the games history. As for perks, addons, and items survivors again have received far more nerfs.
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Solo and SWF having two different experiences (to similar results mostly) that BHVR has to account for when nerfing survivor
Survivor being the most beginner-hostile role and low mmr being a right slaughter, which is already a barrier to new players and one reason of poor player retention
Survivor requiring coordination (that often is outside of individual surv's realm of control) + skill when killer only requires skill
Game having a snowbally nature that makes it so early losses are very punishing for survivor and can make the game impossible to win (see : 2 survs alive, more than 1 gen left), so nerfing them must not be too heavy lest killrates go above what is intended (because survivors don't reach a point in the game at which it's affordable to have lost teammates)
It's a cocktail of reasons
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Healing nerfs got turned back only Medkit nerfs.
I dont know how everyon say DH is dead. Its very tiny nerf compair too the Killer Perk changes.
Medkit nerfs where needed for yeard.
CoH got nerfed yes but if you would play it now you would see the nerf wasnt that massively.
Ds dead is true they should do a 4 sec stun
DH rework was needed, but its still the strongest Survivor Perk.
Gen time wasnt that big compair to perks that caim out later (Hyperfocus) Solo gen in 40 sec great gen time increase.
Less Distanz on Hit I agree has an impact on Survivor.
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50% slower healing with a med-kit is still a healing nerf. Likewise, 50% slower healing overall was dumb.
DH is extremely dead. You need to be unhooked before you can use it. It deactivates on ANY use, not just a successful one. That means you need to get hooked again for it to be active.
CoH got the single strongest effect in the game removed completely. It got massively nerfed.
Hyperfocus only works in very specific scenarios.
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Because survivor nerfs affect all mmr levels.
And survs are already the weaker role. The skill curve for survivors is pretty mental and running chase is extremely difficult. Not every survivor is a looping god. In fact the vast majority of them are pretty bad.
Sure when you are up against someone with 100+days play time catching them can feel like trying to hold water. But at lower/mid mmr chases can and often do end in seconds. Plus it's hard to abuse chase skills when you're dealing with hook camping and tunneling.
Survivor is in a good place rn, the issue is killers who skyrocket their mmr and then can't deal with the skill gap they've created.
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You are ignoring the fact that for Dead Hard to do anything, you need to already not be under an endurance effect/deep wound. If you tunnel the survivor, and hit them before the borrowed time wears off, they cannot dead hard until they mend. It won't do anything. It is entirely within your power to never see a dead hard go off again if it bothers you so much. This is why it's a dead perk.
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So what is the relationship between what you said and the nerf to DH this time?
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Equating basekit nerfs to perk nerfs and your use of "tiny"/"little" kinda speaks for itself. If that's your POV, then yes, my guess is survs are indeed unnerfable. At least not to the point where you deeem it a "nerf". But keep in mind: even a nerf gun doesn't shoot soap bubbles.
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I hope my soccer team hires OP, because with how fast he/she has been able to move the goal post in this thread, we might actual able to finally score a point if they do the same on the field.
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Killer sided of course 😂
There is not a single tournament that is hosted without huge perks and items restriction on the survivors'side but it is killer sided in pub, okay.
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And yet survivors are still OP and good SWFs unbeatable with all killers except Nurse, Blight and Oni.
Other killers have just the time to finish one chase and 3 gens are done, insta heal are still a thing and there are plenty OP perks : We'll make it, Inner Healing, Sprint Burst/Lithe for 20 seconds free chases.
You are delusional when you say the game is killer sided
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Why do you guys always talk about skill ?
There is nothing about skill in the game unless you play nurse.
When gens are done in 4 minutes and you still have perks to heal in 8 seconds, skill is not involved.
When you have 20 pallets on a map that you can predrop, not even looping, just predrop them and it gives you a 1 minute chase for free, skill is not involved...
There are not many good loopers but the tools they have are more than enough for them to survive way longer than they should.
If you want to talk about skill, let's change the map to force the survivors to use mindgame and to 360 to avoid 50% of the hits.
That game is not made for competitiveness and should not have a MMR. The experience for me has decreased in quality since the MMR release, with the rank, my games were way more balanced, on both sides.
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There is a fun interaction with DS if killers keep doing that to you.
You lose deepwound when you go down. And if you ds the killer you are back on your feet and you can use dead hard.
Not going to say it's the best option against a hard tunneler but it is one they often don't expect
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Reasons
1: BHVR considers both soloQ and SWF. This is why the CoH change has been argued about a lot, it's a massive nerf to soloQ while potentially beneficial as a SWF.
2: MMR. Survivor skill has much more of an impact on the game than killer which is a straightforward role most of the time. Example is DH - at low MMR 4 survivors all running DH still aren't going to get much value out of it, at high MMR it totally changes the game.
3: Killer gameplay. Do you balance around the idea that the killer is going to tunnel or play around and try for hooks.
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You can use it yes, but to a very low value compared to pre nerf.
Using Coh in soloQ adds another layer of coordination in the already uncoordinated mess than it is.
I would rather use empathic connection +botany/desperate measures and wait for others to come to me for heal than using coh.
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He says, a week after DH got deleted from the game.
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Idk there are much better perk combo‘s/healing options out there. Like I get the rose-colored perspective but no CoH is not good for solo queue. SWF? Yes.
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I don't know. I played new CoH a few games this weekend and my solo teammates seemed to appreciate it.
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dh still the strongest perk? Horrible opinion. lost me there
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Self healing took a big hit this patch...
DS took a bigger hit... as compared to it's previous version
Gen times (80-90 charges)... but Gen speeds remained the same (survivor efficiency, great skillchecks, Toolboxes and Perks)
Killer gets less stun and faster recovery... so less distance
Maps are either Survivor favored or Killer favored... there are few in between
Killer power are getting boring to play as and against (at least as far as I can read)
it's a wonder why the Hook timers haven't been increased... and/ or Bleed out timers
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It's weird to see people treat survivors differently depending if theyre in a group/on comms.
Now this might be my bias speaking but "solo" is often used to shield "swf" from nerfs. In context solo is also used synonymously for bad players.
As for thread question?
"If we nerf survivor because good players are too good with that character, the bad players suffer".
When theorycrafting nerfing killers here, this gets ignored because killers "can just swap characters".
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Funnily enough, those tournaments always have restrictions on Killers as well.
But yes, the game is usually pretty balanced, if anything it's Killer-sided in most public matches
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Lot to unpack here.
I could just give up and call this what it is. A skill issue.
Good SWF's get beaten all the time. Are they easy to beat? No and they shouldn't be. I can routinely stomp good teams with someone like Pinhead.
Instant heal haven't existed in years. None of the perks you listed are overpowered.
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Cool. I tried it twice & both teams tanked. So I guess we’re even or whatever.
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It’s not dog ######### it just isn’t good for solo queue; like pretty much 90% of survivor perks. To function well, CoH requires coordination not generally present in solo queue. Tl; Dr: Great for SWF, not good in solo queue. And that’s OK.
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We talk about skill becuase it is relevant to these discussions about balance. Idk where you seem to have this idea that playing surv is easy and requires no skill but you are dead wrong about that.
Staying alive in chase for long enough to make a difference is difficult. If a normal heal is 16 seconds, then to run to unhook someone, get to a safe place and heal takes 45 secs. If you're running a killer in chase you have to keep them going that long and then more on top to get gen progress.
Takes good teamwork, coordinatiom and individual skill to achieve that. And 80% of the survs on dbd can't do that very well.
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If you want to be a total dighead yes, but if you play without tunneling DH is very bad and unhealthy for the game. DH punishes players for not tunneling to your response.
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Yes the +33% (not 50% btw) slower healing in general was very bad.
DH isnt dead if you dont see the slow return of DH you are blind. It needs to be deactivated after on use, because on good DH can be the lose for the Killer. DH is strong enough to be a one time use. (one in one round for each surv)
PLAY with CoH and you will see that the nurf isnt that big as you think.
And you point about Hyperfocus can be made for nearly every killer and survivor perk in the game. Some perks have these scenarios more often than others and I would say Hyperfocus scenarions happens more often if you compare it too other perks.
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It's 50% slower healing. 16 seconds to 24 seconds is 50% extra.
DH is actually not worth running for anyone outside of comp now. It's deactivated upon ANY use, whether it's successful or not, it still causes Exhaustion AND it's still completely dependent on the Killer.
CoH got a huge nerf. I don't expect a ton of people to fully grasp how massive it was, but I know a lot of the higher level players appreciate it. Removing the ability to Self-Heal was an absolutely massive (and needed) nerf.
Hyperfocus requires you to do one of two things. Either A, be very good at the game and be able to nail Great Skill Checks that get increasingly fast. Despite what some people may say, this is not easy. Or B, run a build centered around Hyperfocus. That means you'll be able to be tunneled and you'll have zero chase or info perks.
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BECAUSE Map design / S tier killer powers + with BS addons ARE THE PROBLEM , NOT SURVIVORS... simple.
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