How do people enjoy going against Demogorgon?
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In that shack example the survivor can bait the window, if the demo doesn't shred they can just go to the shack pallet, if they see demo cancel shred you drop the pallet and waste time if he keeps it you crouch tech him, literally 3 opportunities to counterplay idk if you really need more.
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Yeah i do, the data.
With "Average" players, demo gets a 55% kill rate and a 57% in top tier games, the devs balance for a 60% kill rate. You can disagree and think that it should be 50%, take that up with the devs. But even if you think that is true, look how far down the list demo is compared to every other killer.
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Also, it isn't whataboutism, it is quite literally prioritization. The devs have shown for years now, that despite being a company with like 1k employees, they can't ever do more than 1 or 2 things at once. And most of the time, that is delegated to releasing a new killer, and then balancing the new killer in the following patch. Midchapters are relegated to changing like 6 perks, because god forbid they make more 3 changes to the game at a time. Rarely do we get a small addon pass with some killers, and we get like a total rework once a year maybe.
Once every 2 years they decide to actually do something and make sweeping changes, but we probably won't see that for another year or so at this point.
The point is, prioritization is important. And there are far far more things that are more important to change, than to change a killer who is arguably underpowered (and maybe unfun in some people's eyes) that isn't actually available to be purchased in the store anymore, and will overtime fade into complete obscurity.
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So, because numbers say Nurse is strong, and playing with friends is a sin against God, that means I am not allowed to dislike going against an annoying, zoning 3-gen killer?
Your logic is flawless.
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If you go to the pallet he just... keeps holding his Shred and puts you in that same situation I described above with the pallet. Any Demo with half a braincell won't fall for a crouch tech, so if you run to the pallet then you either drop the pallet and it breaks and you get hit because he loses no distance, juke and get hit with an M1 attack because he loses no distance, or run through it and get hit with an M1 attack because he loses no distance.
So much counterplay.
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Also, your argument quite literally is whataboutism. The very spitting image of whataboutism. Your response to me saying "Demogorgon is oppressive and unfun to play against" is "But what about Nurse?"
Yeah, Nurse is strong. I still hate going against Demogorgon. Way more than Nurse, in fact. Your whataboutism does not invalidate anything I said.
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I like the part where i showed you the data, and you ignore that and continue attacking a different point. Pretty sure that's a different logical fallacy.
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I ignored the data because it has no relevance to the conversation. Not only are kill rates from from a be-all-end-all, especially in a game like DBD where the matchmaking system is piss-poor and luck and loadouts often have just as big of or even a bigger influence on the outcome of a match than killers or actual skill, but just because other killers have higher kill rates does not change the fact that I greatly dislike going against Demogorgon on account of how annoying he is both to be chased by and to engage with in a 3-gen scenario. Just because some other killers are broken messes doesn't make me enjoy Demogorgon more. "Strong" and "unfun" are not synonymous; hell, Trickster gets nothing but hate even though his kill rate is the lowest in the entire game.
By your logic:
-I should absolutely despise going against Billy, Pig, and Myers, because their kill rates are higher than Demo's
-My most hated killer should be Wesker because his kill rate is the highest
-Dredge, Plague, and Wesker are all in more dire need of "prioritization" because their kill rates are higher than Nurse's at the top 5%
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That is blatantly false. The distance from the window to the door at shack is not a great distance at all; if you struggle to manage your distance with your zoning in that scenario than that's on you. You can easily catch up to a survivor who jukes the window.
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dislike going against Demogorgon on account of how annoying he is both to be chased by and to engage with in a 3-gen scenario.No one can tell you what you find fun or not, but most people seem generally confused why you would find Demo unfun given the other killers in the game.
Others have asked this and I don't think you've answered: what killers do you find it fun to play against?
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Demo is one of my favorite killers to face while playing survivor. He has options on how he plays, but none of them seem overpowered.
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You can't honestly think that demogorgon is anywhere near the top.
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... What? Firstly, where did you get that, secondly, I literally made these points using the EXACT DATA you so triumphantly touted. And, again, I reiterate, who bloody cares what his kill rate is?
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Well, generally speaking the killers I dislike going against are zoning machines (Demogorgon, Pyramid Head, Nemesis, etc.) and killers who do hit and run (Wraith, Dredge, Legion). So to answer the question of "Which killers do you like to face?" just find a killer who isn't in either category. Wesker, Billy, Oni, Sadako; hell, I'll take a Twins over a zoner/hit-and-runner any day of the week.
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"is generally unique and engaging."
Shred is a generic mid-range zoning tool that bucketloads of other killers have done before. Matter of fact, most killers who do the same thing have some kind of gimmick that makes them more unique than Demo. Pyramid Head does the same thing but goes through walls. Nemesis does the same thing but goes over short loops. Trickster does the same thing but fast. Victor does the same thing but plays with the Z-axis a lot more creatively. Deathslinger does the same thing but can get you through tiny holes.
I bet you wouldn't call any of those killers "unique and engaging."
"That mobility can be completely eliminated by survivors at any time, and if he TPs while sealing then he had to stop what he was doing."
That mobility takes a good while to be disabled, can be replaced at the tap of a button, and in a 3-gen scenario "stopping what he's doing" is hardly an issue when what he's doing is kicking a gen and then leaving to kick another one.
"Unlike the mid merchant, he doesnt expose or track survivors."
Portals can literally track survivors. Read the addon description for lifeguard whistle, and then understand that such a feature is in his base kit only he has to tap M2 to activate it without using the addon.
"His "insanely good zoning" has a visual and audio cue, along with a charge up."
The charge up is barely faster than a Deathslinger ADS, and having a reactable cue doesn't matter when how you react is null and void. It especially doesn't matter when it's easy for Demogorgon to just not commit to the Shred and M1 you. That's what zoning is, and he is, indeed, insanely good at it.
"no way you out here complaining about the demopupper"
If you unironically say the word "demopupper" I lose all ability to take your opinion on balance seriously. It's that stupid neckbeard Redditor boop the snoot-esque attitude that lets this killer get away with being so poorly designed and getting praised for it.
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Ok, so again, Lets say we all agree (which i don't think is actually true) with the original premise that demo is UNFUN to go against (not necessarily too strong).
In what world would BHVR every make a change to demo when in the current state of things:
- Demo is relatively balanced, albeit slightly underpowered.
- BHVR has a history of taking years to do anything and there are things that have been broken and need changes much more than this.
- Demo is no longer purchasable in the store, so over time his usage will go down until it it is extremely extremely small (unless he comes back which is unlikely, and even if it is, that is when they could go and make changes/reworks as a way to hype the return)
Also, if he is unfun to go against, and given that you mentioned like half a dozen other killers that you lump in the same category, i would like to ask you. Which killer do you think is the MOST fun to go against?
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First of all, every comparison you have brought up are for killers that were released after Demogorgon. So yes, back in the time Shred was a one of a kind mechanic. To this day it remains the most fair of the bunch for survivors.
It is far easier to dodge a Demogorgon shred than about any of the other examples you have brought up because Shred is slower and you can't steer while shredding. For a while, Deathslinger was super oppressive because it took zero time to aim and shoot so you could quickscope anyone out of usefulness. If you have aura reading on survivors, Pyramid Head's Punishment of the Damned can go through a wall and unless the survivor's psychic, they will get hit. Don't get me started on Victor, who "shreds" infinitely faster with much less counters possible. One of his addons even muffle his grunts when he charges a pounce so you could literally pounce on someone with no terror radius and no audio/visual warning.
Quick Shreds from the Demogorgon can be dodged, just pay attention to where they are facing. Not to mention a missed Shred will cost a lot of time and leave the killer unable to even look at the survivor he missed. The only way you should be hit by him is if it caught you off guard and you didn't leave a tile or your location in time. A lunge attack can be adjusted to deal with a survivor moving erratically. A shred, no.
Portals can be created quickly. But even then, 2 seconds can be a lot when you go head first in a huge crowd of survivors repairing a gen. By the time your portal is done, everyone will have scurried away to safety. The easiest way to limit a Demo's movement is to cripple his portal network early and never give him the chance to build a fully fledged network. 12 seconds for a survivor is nothing compared to 2 seconds for a killer.
If you think the Deathslinger and Demogorgon zoning work out the same I don't know what to tell you. In half a second Deathslinger can shoot 18 meters away from his location, at 40 meters/second, stopping a survivor from being able to do anything. It takes more time for a Demogorgon to charge, he won't cover such a distance with his move and will do so slower.
Me thinks you've had one bad experience with a demogorgon and like everyone who has something mildly inconvenient happening to them, will exaggerate their tales to an extent where everything they say sound ridiculous.
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Everything Demo does mentioned here (putting down a portal, charging a shred, teleporting, etc.) takes time. As others have pointed out, if a surv sees you TP, they can almost always destroy the portal before Demo can make it back, unless the Demo tp's back immediately, which no one does. Putting portal down isn't instantaneous. Charging a shred isn't instantaneous. Nothing demo does is.
The shred, like PH's Punishment of the Damned, is only really easy when a surv has nowhere else to go, and missing it has a time cost. Yes, there are abundant add-ons that mitigate this somewhat, but only somewhat (and if you want to use his portals to track, which is only marginally useful, you have to use an add-on slot). Demo is really pretty plodding and sluggish; nothing he does happens instantly or at the "tap of a button".
I go back to the situation of using a shred in the killer shack; if the surv is coming through the door as the surv is approaching the window, even if the Demo cancels the shred as soon as the enter, you're not getting to the pallet before the surv. Isn't gonna happen (unless you were already close enough to M1, in which case the whole thing is moot).
Using shred is a commitment, and it's not hard to dodge if you see it coming.
Yeah, Demo is good at zoning, but no moreso than a few others. He's a very balanced, middle of the pack killer. Nothing about his kit is unfair.
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