Diversity of Play Style and Roles post update
This is gonna be a bit long so please bare with me!
Intro waffle for context
I have been playing DBD for over a year and am probably the biggest example of a mediocre, at BEST average and mostly nooby player.
As I play on Nintendo Switch (yes, I am one of those 5 players in the world who play on switch) I have never been able to message or connect with other players in the game but had made some very precious and amazing in-game friends. These friends allowed me to develop my own (admittedly inefficient by meta standards) style of play. I’ve never been good at looping or flashlights but I learn to let my perks be an extension of the rest of my team or my friends builds to provide support that way.
Through amazing luck, I was able to connect with a few of these long time in game friends through a random TTV killer game and we got in touch and shared discord details. Over the last 6 months or so, we’ve slowly but surely connected with more and more in game friends through the power of networking and currently we have a discord server of over 100 cross network friends. We try to create lobbies and SWFs to avoid soloQ. Very rarely do we engage in ‘ultra swf’ mode - we don’t use voice comms and are not constantly telling each other strats to overcome the killer - mostly we provide running commentary and jokes while in or in between games. In fact probably almost half of the friends in the server were those who killed or morid me in a match but still had a fun game with.
Post update thoughts:
Anyway, with the new update here is my opinion but also one that has been echoed by several other members in my server. This is a server of normal mostly casual players - for sure not the top 1% MMR and not the lowest 1% either.
I have many strong views on this but I am trying to avoid the perception of being a moaner for the sake of it and don’t want to create a torrent of negativity - it certainly isn’t my intention to do so.
There are a million things I’d like to say but I think the crux of it is that I fear the game may risk losing its diversity. Before you could have members of a team who focused on different elements - a looper, a Gen jockey, a healer/supporter, saboteur etc but now, it has funnelled almost everyone into playing with one efficient tactic in mind - do gens and get the heck out.
With the healing situations and nerfs to items, it has eroded the viability or efficacy of the various elements, nuances and dimensions to the game. It has caused an inbalance but not for the sake of creating a new meta - there is only one direction for the new meta - efficiency.
This will have a causal loop I believe - survivors must do gens and go, even when injured. No time for your dilly-dallying anymore - meaning killers will steamroll those not able to manage with injured health states OR they’ll face more and more acclimatised and uber efficient survivors and will need to become better at chases balanced work Gen pressure and control. This will
lead to frustration among casual killers and so more evidently, they may have to double down and resort to tunnel and camp even more to offset it, leading to survivors having to become even more efficient ad infinitum.
I’m still hoping BHVR realise how this update has been for many casual players and make changes to revert certain elements of the game or at least adapt it to make it more viable to different play styles. I’ve never been a great player but I felt the game did have a kind of role even for someone like me. Someone could be a great looper and use flashlights, but equally someone may not but still add value to a team. I’m not sure that is the case anymore.
And before anyone boils the above down to “get good and learn to loop” my whole point is about diversity of play styles and perks becoming less and less viable. I don’t want this to be an us v them survivors v killer post - I’d like to gauge everyone’s thoughts on whether you think there is still a capacity to assume diverse roles within a team if you’re not good at a particular element?
Comments
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So your point is that before survivor was so imbalanced that you could waste time and still win easily, and that should be brought back.
Its lot more fun to play killer now, before the game was almost unplayable because almost every survivor had a third health state with Dead Hard, finally its gone
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No I think you’re misunderstanding my point entirely.
There are a lot of killer types - speedy, rangy, stealth, hit and run, traps and anti-loop etc.
I’ve always seen survivor perks and items to enable something similar - stealthy, looper, healer, saboteur, Gen rusher, exhaustion perks user etc
it isn’t about winning but about playing. I feel at present it’s about how efficiently survivors can get objectives done and leave v how most efficiently killers can stop them. If that is and always has been the only way the game is meant to be played, I think there would be no need for many survivor perks and items.
Again, to be clear, I’m talking about whether those diverse play styles are still viable or not to enable different kind of games to play out.
not even commenting on dead hard. If your opinion is that the game is best with a super efficient Gen rushing and looping survivor versus a super efficient tunnelling/camping/ do what needs to be done killer then that’s fair enough
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Survivors that aren’t good at chases were always just getting carried by their teammates. Survivors can have healing perks, and still be good at chases. And we still have too many survivors that rely on stealth perks because they’re bad at chases, and they are getting carried by their teammates too.
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Yes I’m sure! A lot of newer players, (and sadly someone like me who is an eternal potato backpack) this is their entry into the game and slowly start to experiment and explore other aspects.
But if ultimately every survivor MUST be good at chase and loops while balancing gens, then many players will simply be fodder. And if they’re isn’t a capacity to ‘be carried’ but adding value in different ways (healing/sabo for example) then it will inevitably become one style (someone who can loop and do gens). For example, if those fodder players like me said “ah well it is what it is, I’m not good enough and can’t get better so best move to a different game” then the only survivor left will be the super efficient loopers and Gen rushers who can do amazing flashlight saves. To counter that, you’ll have to have super efficient and ruthless killers and going by a lot of posts on the forums as well as my own and other friends opinions, that would make the game rather dull.
I play with friends and I enjoy it. They do carry me of course and I try and add value in different ways. If I was a great looper and flashlight god with them, then I would probably appear to be a bully squad for killers. But I think rather players like me can keep the game fun for killers.
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I see your point but isn't it a good thing that you need to do a bit of everything when playing survivor? Many people complain that doing gens is boring (which isn't exactly wrong, since there is little interactivity), so this should make the game more fun overall.
Everyone on the team needs to do a bit of everything or risk losing the match. If it's enough to assign the role of chaser to ONE survivor, then the game becomes horribly unbalanced because as long as the killer goes after this person the survivors are in a winning spot. What happens though, when the killer goes for someone else? Then the team falls quickly. This means there is only 2 possible outcomes of a match: 'Stomp or get stomped'.
The second half of your thoughts sounds like you want survivors to have so much time in a match that they can joke around while the killer tries their hardest to not lose the match with pretty much no hooks (else survivors would still feel pressured and cannot indulge in "dilly-dallying"). I'm sorry but throwing the game should lead you to lose. Especially when your oponent is playing serious.
I'm not saying the current gameplay loop is perfect. Due to recent changes many survivors will concentrate on ending games as quickly as humanly possible, creating the impression that killers have to tunnel to compete and survivors have to rush gens to not die to a tunneling killer.
Yesterday I had a match that lastet 5:46 minutes (with about 90 seconds of me camping in end game for 1 kill btw). The survivors were able to finish all 5 gens in about 4 minutes without the use of BNPs and only 1 toolbox. I have no idea how they managed to do that with me literally in chase for the entire game (got only 3 hooks but still) but I doubt these guys were cheaters (cannot say for certain though). When multiple matches like this occur back to back you get the feeling that 1 survivor needs to die immediately for you to have a chance. Now turn that around and the survivors reach the conclusion that there is only one chance to win: Rush the gens so fast that the killer has no time to kill you.
Both extremes should be looked at and dealt with (as well as camping as that is used as a means to get survivors off of gens as well).
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No I definitely agree with what you’re saying overall - of course it should be aspirational for everyone to try and become better at everything and maybe I didn’t articulate it well enough when I said assuming roles - it Wasn’t meant to be purely restricted to those roles.
among my friends I’ve found that those who have come form games like CoD, Fortnite and so on are naturally good at aiming, timing and instinctive game habits. Some like me, (I’ve never played a PVP and only really played RPGs and Mario Zelda etc lol) came into the game without those inbuilt an and really struggle to pick them up in a game with a steep and unforgiving learning curve like dbd. I love to play with others though and the horror element too which makes dbd unique.
having said that, I do agree with you on the wider points. That’s why I don’t necessarily mean ‘revert the changes back to how they were before’ but (and this is easier said than done I appreciate) enable new changes or modes or capacity to allow different and diverse aspects to flourish so it’s not one dimensional for survivors or killers too.
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There still can be a diversity of styles, it's just most are scared to learn and try. There still are sabos, medics, loopers, etc, but most just feel like the only way you can play is efficient and anything else is a loss. It's like the opposite side of the coin for killers thinking tunneling out a person immediately is the only way. People don't want to risk "Lossing" which leads to both sides complaining about "boring gameplay". But that's just our thoughts on the mater.
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im a killer and i say you are a good persons
Edit: person
Post edited by 09SHARKBOSS on2 -
I can agree on that. DBD is a pretty unique game. Skills that you develop in other games mostly don't carry over to DBD (at least in my experience), so you have to learn DBD from the ground up. The only things I can really think of to make it easier for newer players are changes to the matchmaking and maybe more fledged out tutorials. Tactics that you'd use in other games will never really work in DBD due to its asymmetrical nature and potential lack of counterplay to certain strategies.
I agree that more different viable ways to play the game would be a nice change. Gen rushing should be one of many strategies that all have their place as well as tunneling, camping and slugging. However, right now it seems that some of these strategies are guaranteed to give you better results than any alternatives, which then leads to players deeming these alternatives unviable.
Changing that in a healthy and overall enjoable way is not an easy task. For example I think the gates should be blocked for the first 5 minutes of a match, so that they cannot be opened before that time mark. This would limit the potential of gen rushing (at least slightly). Though I can see how that might be problematic when a killer camps. DS should be base kit (with a 3s stun duration) and spreading hooks should give the killer a small buff to action speed, granting 1 token for each unique hook (max 4) and losing 1 (possibly 2) token for hooking one survivor consecutively. Of course this is just an idea and I do not claim that this would not be abusable.
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Yeah I think so! In also very interested in your perspective and insights. I’ve been a non member reader for a long time on these forums until recently because I never really knew a lot about the wider nuances enough to feel I could comment.
There are a lot of OG forum members and regulars like yourself - on both sides of the fence, killers and survivors whose opinions open my eyes to a lot. I value your collective thoughts and opinions regardless of whether I agree with them or not I can at least try to understand why someone has those thoughts (other than pure partisan us v them mentality).
I know almost any and every idea anyone mentions is often shot down or potentially abusable in some way but I think the conversations should happen for the good of everyone so thank you for sharing yours!
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So you're saying every member of a team can no longer have a specific role at the current state of the game if they want one, but I don't really feel like that is true. I use a whole variety of role builds in soloq, such as totem buster, medic, support, etc., and I still am having fun from my own experiences in addition to escaping.
The thing is though that no matter what role you put yourself in, you still have to participate in doing gens or chases to some degree, or else the game would be pretty imbalanced if that wasn't the case. If you could have one gen jockey do all the gens for your team and one looper loop the killer forever, that would be pretty awful for gameplay design.
However, as we are on the topic of game design, I do believe we need new gameplay mechanics to make the current gameplay not as stale.
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