Hot take: I way preferred the DH meta.
Man killer mains ######### up. Complaining so hard about DH. Now literally every surv is running lithe, SB or balanced landing and it is annoying af.
You know what I liked about DH? You could counter it, SO easily. You can't counter any of these other exhaustion perks and it is driving me up the wall.
Whereas with DH once I figured out who had it, it was the easiest perk in the world to counter. And now I've got uncounterable speed boosts in practically every chase. Love it.
Comments
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I would much rather deal with SB than deal with a meta perk that completely invalidated lunging at injured survivors and provided a ton of value just by existing even if survivors weren't using it. Even if it was often easy to counter.
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Idk its a killer dependant I guess. I like it better now, more chill and deserved downs are not being taken away by a press of a key.
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Sorry but this is a bit ridiculous now. Yes, exhaustion perks are there to give the survivor some distance and can be very powerful when used correctly, but there are many ways to counter them (addons, fearmongers, blood echo,...)
But in principle it doesn't matter anyway if all exhaustion perks are removed from the game or not. There would still be threads after that complaining about how survivors can still walk on their feet and not crawl around like worms like they should.
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I get his point tho. a good killer without mobility suffers more from this. people who knew how to counter DH basically made survivors have no exhuastion perks at all while now it's guaranteed.
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I only care about Dead Hard, playing killer is such a joy now, compared to before, when Dead Hard was a 100% third health state all the time.
I dont care about any other exhaustion perk
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I guess this is what I'm finding frustrating now you mention. I basically didn't have to worry about exhaustion perks before because I only saw lithe, SB etc rarely and could counterplay DH so rarely lost time on chase because of it.
now it's constant every chase a survivor goes tokyo drift mode as I get close.
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Fully agreed, the game feels different and more simple, in a very good way.
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If this is not hyperbole and you were literally swinging into every DH attempt then that is a skill issue.
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I feel you, I used to bait DH most of the times until I started to main blight whic his harder cause u gotta commit for a hit many times. now the other perks as lithe, sb are a joke to blight but I remember my pig maining days, can't imagine dealing with 4 lithes into strong tiles.
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same dh was much more fun and easy to counter. now i just get close and watch the survivors zoom off... zzzzzzzz
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I mean dont take me wrong but you sound like a survivor main btw.
All I know, before the balance patch 3 survivor out of 4 ran Dead Hard, it was a nightmare, essentially survivors had 9 health state instead of 6(potentially even more!!!). Dead Hard was abused since added to the game for years and years, if the perk was so bad getting value, why did 75% of survivors ran it? Never saw any other exhaustion perk ever, just the Dead Hard.
Finally gone, the single biggest thing that made killer unplayable, or just such a bad experience just didnt want to play anymore.
Now I am back, and many others just because that Dead Hard is gone.
Also Dead Harder users loved the script which again had no counter
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Nah, I’m finding my matches more enjoyable now. Survivors aren’t “in my face” like the used to be and my games don’t feel like a chore. I mainly play low mobility killers and I’m doing okay. PWYF and Mind Breaker/ Fear Monger help a lot as well.
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Yeah survivors had no fear, why would they? When they had third health state on demand, usable up to 10X times or more, if you didnt committed to chase taking forever.
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I don't know about you guys but both as a killer and a survivor I enjoy the chase the most by far, I really enjoy a good chase.
Where I see the problem isn't really the exhaustion perks, it's the time it takes for survivors to repair a generator, especially when Toolboxes, Prove Thyself, or BNP come along.
Generators are done so quickly that even a medium chase of just over a minute is enough to complete 1-2 gens.
I don't think the most fun aspect should be nerfed any more what makes the game, but that's just my opinion on it.
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I'll take a few seconds extra in chase over having a chase completely reset.
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Give it time. People were blaming survivors for not adapting last time DH got nerfed and celebrated the perk being finally balanced.
All people need is a single instance of another exhaustion perk extending the chase juuuust enough to trigger them and we'll be back at square 1.
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OP, I think you may have jumped the gun with this post.
This won't be a hot take in 3-5 months.
So many people are trying to push Fearmonger as the next best thing since sliced bread. The answer to Fearmonger is Vigil + Sprint Burst. ...Killers DO NOT want a lobby of 4 Vigils--especially not on a SWF.
Eventually, 99% SB will reveal itself to be even more infuriating than DH, and those who can't be bothered to learn that skill will make killers rip their hair out by sprinting to the nearest safe tile, forcing Killers to drop chase before it even begins.
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Nah Crutch Hard can stay dead. Those other exhaustion perks just help with distance at the start of a chase, Dead Hard just covered up mistakes. Ill take 4 Sprint Bursts over 4 Dead Hards any day of the week.
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What are you talking about? Now if you fight a survivor at a tile and win they can't just tap a button and undo losing all the time...
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I've always liked DH better than SB but I don't have any problems with Lithe & BL (or any other exhaustion perk). And even then SB is only frustrating for me bc I never remember who has it
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for me, killer feels much more enjoyable to play now that it’s not an automatic 4 DH’s every match. I don’t mind SB or Lithe at all
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Getting big 'I personally was fine with Old DS and MoM' vibes from these sorts of threads. In a year we'll look back at them with a grin.
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In a weird way I'm actually glad it got nerfed despite it being a perk I always use.
Nobody waits out my DH anymore, and I've been going 2/2 with my DH's almost every match which is similar to how many I got pre-nerf.
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I've never been bothered by lithe, SB, or balanced landing tbh. There are counters in place for them but even if survivors successfully trigger the exhaustion perk then I catch up to them not too long after. Those perks are in a good place.
DH gave essentially a free hit and could guarantee vaults in situations. That is much more powerful than the other exhaustion perks and that's a problem.
I would like other exhaustion perks to get some love since all of the others are trash beside SB, DH, BL, and Lithe
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The point where i would say "Dead Hard" was really disgusting in some situations were specific killer powers which made it hard to outplay dead hard and it was in 90% - 100% of cases a guaranteed additional health state. (Like Weskers Dash, Demos Shred, Billys chainsaw, Bubbas, chainsaw and so on...) When i played killer it was mostly pretty easy to bait dead hard when not using power.
Now people run mostly Lithe, Sprint Burst and Balanced Landing what needs to get handled a bit different. At the end it's more or less the same. When you commit to a chase which does not make very much sense because of certain circumstances, you won't have success on long term of the match.
In around 90% of matches it is not really important which perks people run, it is the way how to apply the biggest pressure and this can be very situational which step you do next.
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I think the dead hard nerf they should've stopped at was getting rid of the speed boost. Every nerf after that is terrible.
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I mean you don't see a problem with that?
"They used their perk well but I caught up fast anyways and downed them."
That doesn't make them balanced it makes them bad perks btw.
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Eh not really. I think exhaustion perks as a whole are often used as a crutch and people don't learn to loop effectively without them. A lot of survivors just throw on an exhaustion perk and hope that will save them but they don't take the time to learn the fundamentals. If you can learn the basics before using the exhaustion perks you can better get value out of it (which few people do it that way) since you aren't leaning on it too much. I chalk it up to bad players moreso than bad perks (although I think SB is overrated. Still decent but not as good as people make it out to be). If exhaustion perks essentially guaranteed an escape in chase they would be broken, therefore I think they are largely in a good spot.
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I like not playing against 4 DHs now. I don't mind other perks like Lithe. I can always make a decision to either continue my chase or find some other surv. Chases are more interesting now.
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Basekit looping becomes a lot less effective since bloodlust exists. I'd agree with you otherwise.
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SB, Lithe, and BL all have something in common for my gameplay. It's called a choice. Someone speeds off into the sunset I immediately head towards gens to find another target. DH however did not poke it's nose out until your deep asf into the chase where it feels like you got robbed of a down. On top of that I never felt like it was a good decision to leave someone who DH because I already spent all this time getting 2 hits might as well commit for the third. Not to mention the whole sniffing ass every chase waiting it out got played the ######### out.
Edit: it's ok to have your own opinion on DH but to downplay the effect it had in trials as some worthless easy to deal with perk is not it. If DH was so useless like you claim so often it would not have been the most used perk consistently.
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Bloodlust isn't bad. Throw down a pallet, killer breaks pallet and loses bloodlust
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Every other exhaustion perk has a reliable way to deal with it. Dead hard is the only one that created a bad gameplay loop where you get close to a survivor and literally can't attack because you have to "bait" the dead hard. No other perk in the game destroys the main gameplay loop like that. How silly is it from a gameplay perspective that the massive horrifying killer is in range to strike the survivor, but they both have to play this stupid little dance waiting each other out until they think they got the timing right?
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You could allow survivors to use both SB and Lithe and I'd still prefer that over DH.
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No DH meta was stronger for survivor. The SB, Lithe meta are more boring though "hold W" meta and all that getting worse.
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If sprint burst is a huge problem, Fearmonger (a now free perk) heavily counters it.
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lithe complaints make me sad
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Time to run mettle of man again and watch it be cried nerf cause its a free health stealth like dead hard =)
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I'd much rather exhaustion being nerfed as a whole but having to not wait behind each person first chase is good for a start.
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Playing killer and not having Dead Hard looming over my head like an axe on a rope has felt like I was discarding a weight I'd been carrying for years. And I've only been playing since January! I can't imagine how much of a relief the veteran players feel. Survivors running faster for a few seconds is not nearly as frustrating as a constant "gotcha!" card that was so potent that most survivors ran it, in spite of how "easy" it is to "just bait it out".
Watching footage of pre-nerf DbD matches where two or three survivors are using it is like staring into a nightmare. The killer is trying to wait it out but the survivors keep spinning in circles several times mid-chase. And then the killer swings with no warning and they some how DH perfectly anywa. Any mechanic that turns the DbD experience into that deserves to die.
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Hard agree with this. I will admit its nice being able to lunge again but it absolutely does not make up for the absolute cringe that is sb and lithe. Ppl complained about dh being a "free" health state when sb and lithe are infinitely freeer than dh was, it's literally just free distance and I have to take ages to catch up. At least with dh it was because they timed it right but w sb and lithe its quite literally just because they have the perk, I simply can't agree with ppl thinking dh meta was worse to deal with
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holy skill issue... i have to wonder if youve ever tried waiting it out like actually wow
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sb and lithe are infinitely more crutchy than dh was. they give you loads of free distance every time where dh could often be easily countered
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I balance between killer and survivor. I did used to use dead hard a lot but it was high risk high reward. I didn't used to hit the trigger every time and often got downed while trying to use it. Now i run lithe and I consistently gain time off of it at least 3 times a match and often it causes killer to give up on chase early. Tbh if DH was unnerfed I would stick with lithe becuase it's far more consistent.
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Ah see I don't play blight I'm on console and can't hit a lethal rush to save my life. I don't play many mobility killers except demo. And that requires good portal placement to teleport ahead and cut surv off.
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Most players will reveal their SB/Lithe/ BL early on rather than get injured first. DH on the other hand only gets revealed when the Surv is injured and within striking distance of a down. The Killer has a choice to decide to commit or not if the Surv reveals their exhaustion perk early on. With DH, the Killer has most likely already invested time into chasing the survivor, so extending or dropping chase after swinging into DH is a L for the Killer.
Unless the majority of Survivors start pulling off 99% SB mid chase or use their Lithe to escape an unsafe tile, pre nerf DH will still “feel” more oppressive to go up against.
Most of the exhaustion perks offer speed boost with different activation conditions, DH offered the potential for a speed boost and extra health state
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The extra health state IS the potential for a speed boost, they aren't separate things. Also this is just my opinion (not fact!!!! ffs), but personally I find it much more annoying when it takes forever just to get a chase started. While dh on the other hand for me is kinda just whatever, depends on the kind of survivor ig, but it sucks every time when it's a power attack that gets dhd cuz that's just uncounterable (and still is, wooo great)
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Scary how bad survs need their excaution perks. Never liked them, barely used them.
Against most killers you'll still make it to another loop using the free sprint burst after getting hit. If you have a hard time finding loops use WoO. Against Nurse and Blight you need to play different anyway.
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It's not about need it's about fun, it breaks the rules a bit and you become faster, it's fun to use perks.
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Just like regression perks. Anytime either side sees something that annoys them they start asking for nerfs. It gets nerfed and then they look at the next thing that annoys them.
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