General Discussions
General Discussions
Would STBFL deactivate when the obsession is dead?
This is will sound stupid but the perk is called save the best for last aka saving your obsession for being the last alive but the killer for example Demo or Wesker can use their powers to injure the obsession and not lose stacks then kill them off easily and keep all their stacks.
What I'm getting at is this most obsession perks deactivate because the obsession is dead but STBFL doesn't.
Look Play with your food or Dying light they lose stacks when the obsession dies but why not STBFL also I don't know I'd Dying light full on deactivates since I rarely see it being used and most of the time I'm dead before the obsession.
Comments
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NO in all languages.
15 -
No, it should deactivate when the exit gates are powered up.
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It shouldn't deactivate. It's a saving grace to weaker killers, why would you nerf a perk that improves the chasing potential of already suffering killers while doing nothing to killers that are actually problematic?
21 -
The perk already prevents you from gaining more stacks after the obsession is dead and hitting the obsession makes you lose stacks. So it's pretty fair in that regards.
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This, it basically already does that, it becomes finite once the obsession is dead.
Why would it deactivate when the exits are powered? Because survivors have perks that do that? Do you realise that powering the exit gates is not a like-for-like scenario for survivor and killer? The killer equivalent of 'powering the exits' would be something like, 'there's only one survivor remaining', or 'the survivor you're chasing is injured and on death hook.'
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Whats the reason for DS and OTR to deactivate?
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Because they would offer free escapes for survivors who are downed near the exit gates, where the killer cannot hook them by any means despite having hit/downed them. It would guarantee that any survivor with either/both of these perks, if hooked and rescued during EGC, would have a guaranteed escape.
This is a situation in which the survivors are already winning, and it pushes it over the line from an 'almost win' to a guaranteed win.
The killer equivalent to that, would be if three survivors were dead, the killer has almost scored 4 kills, and there is no hatch and no EGC, so the fourth survivor cannot escape by any means.
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Because this perks gave survivors a 100%, no questions ask, no risks involved "escape this trial without a hitch" card at the end, unless the killer managed to hook them on the farthest hook possible and that lead to many, many uncool situations. Ever downed a survivor who just got unhooked, chased everyone else through the door and then watched that survivor to agonizingly slow crawl towards the exit gates and there is nothing you can do? They woudln't need 1min to reach the gates, so picking them up would just allow them to DS to safety.
Or ever downed two survivors during an endgame situation after a dual trade and you had to let them slugged for 1min, because they both could have DS and you needed to wait it out before hooking them? But the zoom off to safety while bodyblocking for your friends was the most common offender, with the perk not being anti-tunneling, but just a middlefinger to the killer with a big "yeah nice try loooooser. Here is some more t-bags for your effort."
OTR basically did the same, but don't be grim, basekit BT now ensues that you can more often then not safely escort your unhookers to the exit gates and t-bag with little opposition or counterplay, so everythings well in the fog.
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It should deactivate because currently it's a very strong perk throughout the match with little ability for survivors to counter, and happens to also have the side effect of guaranteeing a pity kill during end game camping. Essentially a parallel of why DS deactivates.
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Which makes it an opposite of the scenario in which DS deactivates...
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So DS giving a free end game escape is bad but STBFL giving a free end game kill is good?
7 -
It's an asym game. The killer is meant to be able to secure a kill. Killers don't need STBFL to secure their final kill so STBFL helping that in the end game doesn't really add much that isn't already possible.
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Killer is "meant to secure a kill"?? That sounds a little entitled don't you think? STBFL guarantees a hook trade or a snowball unless you majorly screw up as killer.
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Just for fun let's envision a world where this is the case. Do you think
A) Killers will brainlessly hook the obsession on death hook to kill them and lose their stbfl stacks
Or
B-1) killers will slug the obsession to preserve stbfl stacks at all costs and just re-slug the obsession whenever theyre encountered
B-2) survivors who see that they're the obsession and notice that the killer is running stbfl DC to spite the killer and turn their perk off if they're close to death or being slugged.
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I think with decisive now taken out of the meta, STBFL has more room to run rampant, as decisive made the person being tunneled the obsession making them less likely to be targeted by a STBFL user. Now it's just ooo free stacks gimme that BT. 6.1.0 has let this perk get out of control and it currently enables the tunneling camping situation.
Do I think STBFL is an issue in normal gameplay? No. At the hook? Yes, it's very problematic right now.
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Not at all. The skiller securing a single kill at the end of the game is still a loss for them and with the mmr changes, the survivor who dies can still gain mmr for that game. Killers are being balanced around the fact that at least 1 kill should be happening every game.
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For me, it should have max stack of 6, since killers have 2 stacks as basekit. And thats it.
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It doesn't need any changes.
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Doesn't guaranty a kill though.
If the obsession tanks a hit and another survivor unhooks you can safely unhook somebody and make a dash for the exit gates.
There are also some perks that makes unhooking faster that help. NoLB (very underrated) does wonders for that.
I agree it's very strong and not easy to safe from but it's not a guaranty like old DS was
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Either that or should lose stacks on special attacks. Rn you can literally tunnel the obsession out and just have easy stbfl stacks the rest of the game, that is NOT ok
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Killers shouldn't be able to just secure one kill for free. Your logic is the same for ds/otr in endgame. If you're mad that the survivors got a free 4 out, but ds/otr being disabled would only reduce that to a 3 out, either way it's a loss so it shouldn't matter right? It's incredibily entitled to think killers should just be able to get a kill every game even if they get destroyed
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You are simply putting words into my mouth.
The game is designed around the killer being able to secure at least 1 kill. This does not mean that 0 kills never happen. Killers still have to put forth effort to secure that 1 kill. Survivors don't get perks that provide essentially a free escape in the end game as a result.
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They don't have to put any effort into it lol, get one hook as bubba or hillbilly or myers and camp and its gg. Also "the game is designed around the killer being able to secure a kill" .. and? Like do you mean the game is balanced in a way that the killer has to be able to secure a kill? Because that's just wrong
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Survivor main logic: 8 stacks of stbfl grants free kills to the killer. Killer is allowed free kills. survivor not allowed free escapes with OTR/DS in end game. /unfair
Sounds like double standards. Your saying survivor shouldn't have free escape end game perks but killer should. I think it should go both ways which is why I don't really agree with DS/OTR nerf in end game.
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There's no double standard. Killers still aren't guarantee a kill at the end of the game. All that's changed is that killers have a better chance to secure kills because survivors don't have free escape perk. And that's how it should be in an asym 1v4.
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With full stbfl stacks, bubba, billy, huntress, trickster, and some more you are very much able to guarantee a kill at the end of the game
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I do not agree with that notion of balance. survivors do have free escape perk in end game. the perk is called Adrenaline. Its just not as good as old decisive strike end game.
decisive strike in end game gave you slimmers of chance to escape against those killers in end game.
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I do not agree with that notion of balance. survivors do have free escape perk in end game. the perk is called Adrenaline.
That is not a guaranteed escape perk. That is a heal and a speed boost that happens before the gates are opened. If a killer is chasing a survivor with Adrenaline, they still have a chance to catch and down them. That is not comparable to Decisive Strike and Off the Record making it possible to run out the exit gates with 0 risk of failure.
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Exactly lol
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right so if you loop killer for 30 seconds which should be easy with extra health-state+hold w distance, a swf can bodyblock you by creating berlin wall as the injured survivor just runs forward towards an exit gate if your m1 killer with no instant down or fast catch-up.
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Adrenaline doesn't give people SWF squads, that's irrelevant.
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Weaker killers balance should not rely on a perk, they should be buffed alongside stbfl being changed
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STBFL is fine as it is.
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Maybe stbfl itself is but in combination with camping and tunneling and lack of comms in solo it definitely is not
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Agreed. But since that is not going to happen...
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Man I'm so glad this is no longer the case. Hooking survivors after gehs were done back in the day was super pointless
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Not with that attitude D:
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I never understand the beef people have with STBFL. It's nice to have but it's not so good I need it on very many of my killers
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It makes camping and tunneling much much easier, is directly better against solos, and it becomes very impractical to take hits as the obsession if the killer has an m2
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It also indirectly became much harder to "counter" (throwing yourself in front of the killer as the obsession is kind of stupid as counterplay) with the healing nerfs.
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Tru. And even then if you only take 1 hit as the obsession then the killer only goes down from 8 to 6 stacks, w the cooldown of the next attack being that of 7, so it basically does nothing unless you literally give the killer a down
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Camping and tunneling will always be a thing even though most of us don't like it. Most people i see have STBFL aren't using it for that purpose. I'd much sooner want to address something like Bubba than random perks because they have the potential to be good for camping/tunneling. Having (at most) a 40% hit cooldown is nice but it's not that nice. A killer will still camp/tunnel without STBFL. Nerfing it doesn't change anything you desire to change because some killers will do the same thing whether they have all the perks in the world or have no perks at all
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Yes but on killers besides bubba for example it would be less effective. So they could still try to do it but it won't matter if it's less effective and doesn't yield results
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Soon enough they will deactivate Deliverance and Unbreakable when the exit gates are powered up
You can print screen this for later
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Some people just don't want killers to have any decent perks. All the complaints about stbfl always end up being how the survivor perceives they deserve a free escape or a free unhook and the perk makes it harder, but not impossible to do so.
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Or it's because it's a problematic perk that does make it impossible to do so if we're being honest and realistic. Also you imply that it's a free escape without stbfl in play? Yikes.. killers really just can't live with getting a 0k
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Nerfing STBF? The perk is fine. Even in SoloQ, if the team can understand that the killer has Save The Best, the obsession should be interacting with the killer far more than the other survivor, stoping the killer from gaining stacks easily.
As many have said in this topic, STBFL does not mean a free kill on the endgame.
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And how is the obsession supposed to know if there's no comms? They should be notified when the perk is being used. Also, yeah, it does. Even if you do the strat to get the unhook without immediately trading with 2 ppl, the tiny attack cooldown, the speed boost duration partially being wasted during, and body blocking being irrelevant makes it a non option to even attempt getting the 4 out
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Those are both totally fine perks (and I honestly find Deliverance underrated and would prefer a buff to it despite its popularity).
Unbreakable is also solid. Not too strong and not too weak
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You are really giving STBFL way too much credit my guy. "Impossible" to escape is very extreme especially in relation to STBFL. There are examples I could see a case for saying it disposable to escape without a hook trade (such as infinite tier 3 myers or bubba) but those are outliers.
And honestly getting a 0k is a pretty tremendous failure. Do you really expect people to sign up to play a role they consistently accomplish nothing?
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