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For those who think Wraith is still a bad killer
They only repaired 2 Gens, I never tunneled, slugged or camped a single person the whole game.
Last person got hatch at shack, 50/50 I picked the wrong side of shack to check first lol.
Comments
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He is weak, one screenshot means nothing. At the very least, he isn't strong. If wraith can be considered strong than killer is just straight up broken as a role.
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Nah wraith is still Mid-low B tier that's semi reliant on addons.
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He's alright. He's pretty addon reliant, but his addons are all actually good.
One screenshot doesn't prove anything.
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That boi walking with a purpose in that pic.
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Wraith is A-tier right now. They should have never removed the lightburn mechanic, you basically need to be right on top of a really good tile when you're spotted or you're taking a hit.
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A lot of his abilities depend on map rng.
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It's almost like the second you realize you are playing against wraith, you play around it. Saying he is low A tier is just laughable.
He's got decent map traversal, is add-on dependent and uncloaking wins him some filler pallet interactions. Not a lot going on with him.
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Weak no but also not strong.
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So everyone pretty much said what I was expecting, nay, hoping people would say, so this is my only response.
Wraith is without a doubt a B-Tier killer, and saying he is anything lower is a delusion on your own assessment of the game.
However, any killer can be higher than their own tier in the right hands. One screenshot proves nothing you are correct, but ME personally, I win just about 90% of my games, I am at a high MMR threshold, and I almost never tunnel, slug or camp in order to win, I even usually give final survivor a chance at hatch.
The addons are certainly helpful for Wraith, but I can still win games without them. That being said, the build you're looking at, is not one you can judge until you have played against it, not unless you actually understand why those perks are there.
This build is pretty much useless on any killer other than Wraith. The screenshot was simply an example of how strong a Wraith CAN be, when utilized the right way.
Fun fact, before Eruption got nerfed, I personally was able to win games without a single gen popping, and I could do this consistently.
You can make your instant judgement's all you want. But I do want to leave this thread with one thought when it comes to assessing killer and/or player skill.
Wesker is an A tier killer and everyone seems to agree with this. Everyone would also not argue that just about 90% of Wesker's are tunnelers, I have a friend who literally is keeping his own stats showing Wesker's tunnel three times more than any other killer.
Are people honestly going to make the argument, that in Dead By Daylight, when it comes to assessing killer/player skill/power, it is more impressive for a Wesker to win consistently, by relying almost solely on tunneling, than for a Warith, a "#########" killer, to win consistently and rarely ever tunnel.
I sometimes feel in this game and with it's community, people can't fathom that anything other than their already existing pre-conceived notions of what is or isn't good in this game could be questioned.
Anyway, I'm not posting this response cause I care too much if people think Wraith's are bad, just wanted to see what engagement it would get.
I actually love knowing that when I get into a match people must laugh when they see I'm a wraith, much like what happened in this chat, until I 4k them that is.
🙂
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Anyone who unironically uses the line "I'm high-mmr" instantly loses argument points.
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Anyone who unironically discounts a player based on the killer they play, automatically loses points,.
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He’s B tier imo.
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Going by survivor-swf logic, for fairness' sake:
Is wraith as good as nurse/blight/current "top killer in need of nerfs" of the month? No so he's a bad killer and in serious needs of buffs to bring him on par with the top killer.
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Nobody does though? Most people seem to agree that he's mid B henceforth not weak per say.
You seem to be trying really hard to argue for something most people agree with.
He's okay. If you're really good you will probably win most of your matches.
The screenshot kinda undermines your point though. You were using some really strong stuff while the survivors builds were questionable at best
One screenshot already doesn't mean much but it actually works against your argument when you show a lobsided one like that. Half the team didn't even have any notable exhaustion perk
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Nobody did.
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Its baffling how you guys are missing the friggen point here. I never claimed Wraith is S tier. I never claimed I am a god level player. I never claimed most wraith's are not B tier.
I claimed Wraith CAN be played at a HIGH and COMPETETIVE level where he can be AS GOOD as certain HIGHER tier killers when put in the right hands. And rather than prove that with my own logic, stats or even screenshots as everyone here is clearly so goddamn closed minded.
That's all I have to say. Its so dumb how this community puts killers in a box and tries to make these claims that because their Tier assesses that typically they would be played at a certain level of competitiveness, that no one in their right minds can ever play them well enough to raise that tier TO THAT PLAYER and in THOSE GAMES.
And no, I'm not saying that I am the #1 Wraith player, I'm saying I have it on good authority that most Wraith mains tunnel and slug to win, I DON'T, I don't cause I don't have to.
Tunneling is literally not a merit of skill, it's a goddamn crutch that bad players use on bad killers to play better, and that average players use on GOOD killers to play even better. If you are gonna boast about someone's skill and they tunnel all the time, I don't care if they are nurse or blight or wesker, you ain't impressing me.
But to make these brainless claims that killers should be placed in some tier box that no one can ever pull them out of.
I only have one last question than.
I want please, no jokes, or toxicity here, I'm genuinely curious. Why do you all even play this game? Do you really just pick 1 killer that you deem "good" and try to master them. If you play this game and believe that killers are what the stats or what the "tiers" say they are, and that simply by seeing a match is against a "low-tier" killer, that you believe that means you are going to win and win easily.
Like why do you play this game, a game that stringently unbalanced and pigeon-holed sounds like the most boring game imaginable.
I don't honestly care if people think Wraith or I am Bad, but I honestly, for real, just want to know what does everyone enjoy about this game?
I enjoy this game because no matter the killer you choose, you can find perk and addon combinations that can make them more effective than they might typically be based on the community's judgement of them. I like playing as ######### m1 killers like Myers, Ghostface, Freddy and coming up with builds that make them strong and annoying to play against.
It honestly seems like most of the community want this game to be one where as long as you understand the "meta" than any killer you play against, is as predictable and "rated" as you and the community deem them to be.
Again, this whole post was just to show the Wraith's "potential" not the Wraith's "standard" like good lord.
If anyone has a genuine answer to my question I really want to know, cause to be honest. Alot of this community treats other players like if they aren't AS GOOD as them, than they aren't even good at all, they are #########, and anytime people try to claim skill they have, it's the community's goal to like correct people, to put them in their place that, they aren't playing the "meta" the "high tier" killer that the community agrees upon, therefore there is no discussion that any other killer can even be good.
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You as a player didn't get discounted on the killer you are playing. You may be an insane killer player, but wraith is not good. You can make any killer work vs most of the players in this game if you are that good, but that doesn't mean he is good. s
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Okay, Wraith can win games. Trapper can win games. T1 Myers can win games.
Wraith is weak because he's geared towards hit-and-run, making him a subpar chaser. Even if you're good at using his lunge, you're nothing compared to the actual chase killers like Bubba, Nemesis, Demo, etc.
He also suffers heavily depending on the map, if you're on an open map, you'll have a hard time sneaking up on survivors. If you're on a pallet-dense map, you'll have to contend with them always having safety nearby.
He does have his stealth and his mobility, which are two strengths that are very notable. The average solo queue team will likely crumble, in fact. But against smarter survivors and/or the worst maps? He lags behind considerably.
He's still able to win and is a fun bing bong boi. His cohorts are just better.
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Show us what you can do in competitive against god teams.
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You just gave me the greatest compliment anyone in the DBD community has ever given me. You just insinuated that I'm so GOOD, that to truly test how GOOD I am, only the top 0.01% of survivor players in the entire world, could best me in a way to sufficiently determine just how GOOD I am.
Thank you 😜
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This opinion shows a lack of experience and immature mentality. Wraith is put to Tier B doesnt mean he cant go higher Tier by other players who have a better understand of him.
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« I claimed Wraith CAN be played at a HIGH and COMPETETIVE level »
Back up your claim or don’t say anything.
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I don't have to back anything up, because you just became the first person in this thread to agree with the entire goddamn point of my post. Even if you think I personally am NOT a "competitive" level wraith, you have accepted that there CAN be. My whole post was to show that I at least to me, play Wraith a lot differently and at a higher threshold than it seems a lot of the rest of the Wraith community does, based on the evidence I have seen. Most of the responses here were about the General Wraith, or myself as one.
So I thank you again, you have proved my point.
You are a legend sir, an absolute legend.
Edit: actually, I think I gave you too much credit, I think you we're "quoting" me there.
If that is the case than my bad, I thought you we're accidentally being smart. Cause to claim that someone playing a public and ranked game, only has any discernable skill, if they play competitive, again, with the top players in the world. Is such a jaded viewpoint on video games as a literal concept, it's like saying if you don't play in the NBA, you suck at basketball.
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Are you aware what this Topic was about in the first place, read the Topic or dont say anything.
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I think ive seen Wraith played in comp before on dbd, not vs the best teams but i do recall seeing it. I know for sure ghostface has played vs the best survivors in the world before on lerys and done well.
I think if you're good at the killers and use effective builds and play efficiently you can do very well.
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This is one if the funniest post i've seen in a while.
OP bassically kicked the door in yelling that wraith isn't weak. Then after a awkward stare people agree that he's pretty decent to where he then yells at them to shut up and goes on a rant of how people put killers in boxes.
Seriously though. Step back, take a deep breath and asses what you are reading. Your level of intensity is not matching the room
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Nobody really disagreed with you. Everyone said, yeah, he's not strong but he isn't weak. He's decent, but he relies on his addons to much.
Then you started ranting and screeching. Chill out dude. It's not that deep. People don't have to mindlessly agree with your every word.
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Perhaps that is a fair point, trying to present something and engaging in diatribes doesn't help any real discussion. People can disagree with each other or agree but not to the same degree. I will apologize than for going a little far in this discussion.
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"Immature mentality" yeah ok. I'm stating a near fact in relation to killers above him. Immature would imply I am an under developed human. Like I said in another reply. He can traverse the map fast, have a better chance of winning at filler tiles and is add-on dependent. There is little to understand in a killer so simple. In a game so simple, saying Wraith requires more than a simple understanding of the game and mechanics is beyond laughable. Telling me I'm immature in relation to Wraith, I just can't 🤣.
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Now see me get a 4k with perkless Freddy and a 0k with Nurse using her best perks against low prestige survivors.
That doesn't show anything. 1 game is not enough to showcase a killer's strength.
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It doesn't matter what tier people want to label him as, it's not the killer but the player which matters.
There are examples of low tier killers beating really strong teams. Otz is a prime example of showing this with his Trapper.
If the Wraith is played by an inexperienced player who is trying to learn him, Wraith will play like an F tier. Someone who has put a lot of time into Wraith can make him S tier.
Sure, you can't prove how good a killer is based on one match, but neither can someone pigeon-hole a killer into a tier when the player is the biggest factor. That's why the Nurse, who is universally seen as the strongest killer, had the lowest kill rate in the last lot of stats which came in.
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That's a very good way of putting it, maybe it would have been better to have started my post just by saying that what I mean by Potential, is reliant on the player using him. It's kind of funny when i read the posts saying how simple and basic wraith is. Cause inherently I agree, honestly I agree with what most people are saying about Wraith. The only difference is, I don't play a Wraith like almost any other typical Wraith player, when I do play him, it is 100% a mindgame, it is anything but simple, my perks have been meticulously designed to target all of Wraiths biggest weaknesses and strengths and compensate/boost them up. My playstyle as well is anything but predictable (I won't go into detail about it), essentially what I'm saying is, if you get into a game with me and treat me as a basic and easy to loop Wraith, by the time you get to the final gen if you should, it'll be too late before you realize how much control I actually exerted on that game.
I like wraith partly because of how many people don't see the potential you can utilize him for, and the more players think of him as nothing more than a simple and easy to loop killer, the easier i find it is to disprove that during my games.
Also, before the most recent update I was still winning games, but I can't say if I would have been as much without addons, but with the healing meta as it is right now, I have a good feeling I can still do quite fine without any addons. It certainly has me curious enough to play some games to test that before rank reset.
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Exactly. The player has so much control over the effectiveness of a killer to the point where, other than the rather boring professional circuit, tiers are largely irrelevant. I actually wonder how healthy tier lists are to the regular player, due to self-induced pressure to become this imaginary, unprovable high mmr.
There's so much that can happen in a single trial which changes the outcome. One simple mistake by a survivor or a lucky guess by a killer could decide an entire trial.
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The general attitude of killer mains in these forums is that if a killer isn’t on par with Nurse or Blight, they’re weak. Wraith is good, exceptionally so against low to mid-tier survivors (which is where most survivor players fall). But he isn’t super competitive against exceptionally skilled survivors nor should he be. Because they’re exceptionally skilled.
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When you state something is good in a video game and you mean against not decent players, then you have to specify that. That really is just common sense.
Also I don't think many people in these forums agree with you about the general perception of killers compared to blight and nurse. You'd be hard pressed to find more than a few people calling huntress and wesker weak and if you did, they would be laughed out of the post.
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Wraith isn't a bad killer, nor is he mediocre. People are just very hyperbolic when it comes to referring to tier lists. It's the same with fighting games. You could have a generally very strong roster, but if a character isn't top 10 they are labelled trash.
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There's no straight up bad killer in this game (except Trapper and Pig on some maps). Plenty of bad players though.
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Yes. Any killer can be played at a high level. Does not change their strength though. I personally think your screenshot is why this discussion de-railed. With current matchmaking it could be argued we have no idea the strength or skill of anyone. The way 10000 hr players go against 100 hr players kind of throws everything out the window. I mean just look at the streamers who go on their streaks. If you scope out majority of the games how many of them where against survivors of their caliber? Not many I know that. Just pay attention to how many games they play where the survivors have a decent understanding of the game/killer they are against (very few).
I am extremely good with Freddy and Pig winning the high majority of my matches but I know for a fact I shouldn't be and I'm not crazy enough to think they are strong. There are two many factors at play to say I do it anyone can. Matchmaking, Maps, Solo vs swf, add-ons, perks, etc all play such a huge part in trials that I find it so laughable that "Comp" is even mentioned in DBD. Gives me a clown chuckle every time I hear it.
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Wraith isn't bad at all but he's not S tier, or even A tier for that matter. I mean I hate going against the guy with passion and almost always die against him but he's B Tier, low A tier at most if you take his add-ons into account and are being generous.
I do think he's better than a lot of people give him credit for though.
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What? Wraith is one of the least map dependant killers if not THE least map dependant killer in the game
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So you basically went against average survivors on a favorable map? Yeah that's how it usually goes when I play Wraith. Then I went against a 4 man on a farm map and couldn't do anything. All they did was run me on a pallet tour, so yeah Wraith is good at beating average survivors that's about it..
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Just keep in mind the standard Wraith result in DbDLeague is around 3-6 hook stages total, and that's with exhaustion perks being banned.
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Just a quick note at the start: there is no 50/50 hatch spawn at shack. Its always outside on the opposite side from the window. There was a realm which was the exception but dont know if its fixed or which one it was.
For the wraith-topic: i myself play wraith with a pretty high win rate. My build is Haunted, Undying, Devour and Pentimento. Plus yellow swift and windstorm.
You can easily play a variety of builds with him and be successfull. I agree with you, but posting this screenshot with this claim was the worst way to say that.
I saw one guy who claimed to have a 70 winstreak with myers (no tombstone). But after asking they showed gameplay and explained the playstyle. I got an 11er winstreak first try. Thats a better way to show something.
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I think removing the burn mechanic was ridiculous. He is invisible and fast. Literally the only counter that he had.
Other undetectable killers have at least something to notice them, like a lullaby, or the fact that they become slower when in power.
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The game is not that simple.
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Wanted to make one last post in this thread, it was stated by some that the Wraith is Map and Addon dependent, since I had never tried, didn't want to discount that opinion without evidence. So since you people like proof, here are 10 games I played since yesterday and today without any addons.
I won 8 out of 10 games fully, any of the 3k's are not 4k's because I don't slug the final survivor so I prefer to give them a chance at hatch, some found it and some didn't. There was not a single game I didn't kill at least 1 person it.
I also want to state for the record here, all 10 of these games I did not tunnel, slug or camp nearly at all in any of them.
Non toxic, no addons, any map Wraith. So yeah no, don't need the addons. 😊
You can call me low MMR if you want, if it makes you more content with Wraith stinking though 😉
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In my regional servers (JP/KR), Wraith pick rate increased much higher after recent update.
Nearly 1 Wraith in 4~5 games.
Most use Sloppy, Fearmonger (and few Knockout) and 'only' play him as hit & run gamestyle.
Going for other survivors whenever the survivor he chases goes into strong loops, and only hitting them with open area.
Self-Care with Botany or safe healing with teammates can counter him a bit but ngl if there's a single teammate who makes bad judgment, the result was either 3 or 4k.
I am honestly surprised hit & run Wraith isn't meta thing in NA and EU servers. Also don't get why Otz put him in low tier.
I know he has some good add-ons which make him efficiently stronger but playing hit & run with pallet eating strat I kinda agree he isn't a heavily add-on dependent killer.
He feels okay to play w/o add-on if I don't over-commit chasing survivors in dirty loops.
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Wraith has many tiles in the game where he is powerless against a good survivor. It's really that simple.
Take the same two players and swap out Nurse or Blight and you have a completely different result where the Survivor is at the mercy of the killer instead.
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I've noticed something about the DBD community, they are very single minded when it comes to "winning" and "strenght". All the time they compare every killer to "nurse or blight" because those killers can win, quickly and effectively.
Have you ever considered that Wraith can be as effective at winning as a nurse or blight but the only difference is, his playstyle does not allow him to do it quickly?
When i win, it's almost always during final gen, but that's because I'm purposefully setting up the entire map to my design. I'm meticulously remove all good pallet and all good loops and trying to move people towards 3 gen. Even if they don't by the time they get to that point in the game, my build is at its absolute strongest. No pallets, max stacks of STBFL, it's when I go in for the kills.
Like not everything in this game can be compared to two killers with a single quick and aggressive playstyle. Other killers have other ways of being played that are just as effective, it doesn't mean it isn't strong if it isn't the "same".
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Why are you getting so worked up about it? If you enjoy him, play him. If you think he's strong, great. If others don't, well so be it. Personally I think he's kinda weak. He's okay at hit and run though.
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