Incentives why NOT to Tunnel
Yeah, BHVR aren't giving you much and tbh in some situations you gotta do that against a strong team to regain some control, you can't always play fair. this post is mostly for killer players who all they do is camp/tunnel from their first hook, 5 gens in pubs while thinking every team they play against, are Hens's SWF.
Well, I can have a few as someone who plays both sides.
- If you see other people that are good win a lot of times while not tunneling, they're obviously showing skill, if you don't care only about winning but also about being good at the game, learn how to win without taking the ez every child can do route.
- Maybe you're playing vs survivors that also play your killer, and not really well. you can show them, by .. SKILL, that you can beat them without tunneling/camping from the get go, so you can give inspiration to other killers to improve.
- If you still don't care and all you want is win, don't cry when survivors are telling you that you're bad at the game, yeah they're salty but they're saying the truth, if you destroyed them without 5 gen tunneling they would had(probably) more respect in general.
- The dopamine of outplaying multiple people in chase. when you tunnel, usually the guy tunneled is in panic and doing mistakes, making it even easier to down. the game is fun(for me at least) when you chase many people, that play differently and outplay them most of the time, winning by that can give a huge dopamine hit, showing survivors that none of them can hold you for a long time unless using strong loops(that if ur good, u get rid of them fast).
- Eventually, you will raise your MMR(that you can't even see) to a level that most of the teams against you will know how to handle you, they'll realize you lack skill but go for the tunneling ez route and punish you or give you 1 kill, and you will go out frustrated, good survivors can recognize within 1-2 loop interactions if you know how to play killer well or not.
It's not about dignity or the fun of the survivors, when I play killer If I tunnel from the start in pubs, I just make an easy game for myself, I do not improve and I do not show any form of skill to anyone. everything should be in dose in life, balanced is the word. When you tunnel on 5 gens in pubs you kill the balance of the game in a tactic that is only available in DBD, taking the easy route to win by standing still or hooking the same guy who's many times sucks/defenceless.
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Cool story bro but I prefer hard tunneling with blight and do not care if it's skillful as the majority of my opponent's arent, Like even 4000-hour survivors should be able to beat a 400-hour blight.
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Lol you just make my point even stronger, as a blight main I win almost all my games and never need to tunnel.
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That's not really any kind of incentive
People will think I'm bad at the game? ...oh no, random strangers on The Internet think I'm not very good. My life is now over.
Like...people are going to play in a way that they think is most effective. Whether you/the opponent thinks that makes them a bad player or not is negligible.
I don't know what the fix ultimately is for tunneling as trying to "nerf" it will always have unintended consequences that players can (and will) exploit and even adding "good" incentives (like a BBQ bonus for hooking different survivors) won't stop someone who just plain wants to tunnel.
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If i'd tunnel on 5 gens I'd think of myself that i'm bad in the game personally, not satisfying win.
Anyway, even if I can convince one gamer to improve I've did mine to make the community more healthy and some players to master their killers in chase instead of relying on easy tactics.
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its all about "strategy" around here......EZ mode is what this place is all about...you arent going to get them to agree with you. the only way they will get it is when as a killer. they q up and spend 20 minutes trying to find a lobby in a game where noon wants to play the other side. i played killer for the first time this morning in over 6 months. with perks streamers have databases to using for each killer, and a basic knowledge of the game. you can destroy most trials fairly easy. i just couldnt take more than 3 matches of doing so. went back to the more challenging side
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dont worry they think they are the best
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I know it's a killer main forum, but still I'm sure some of them want to feel skillfull more than they want to win, even if it's 20% of them.
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Getting an early kill in the game is huge as a 3v1 is way easier to manage compared to a 4v1. In a 4v1 there will always be at least one survivor free to progress gens. In a 3v1 with fast downs and quick hooks, you can force the survivor team into a situation where they don't have time to work on gens.
You aren't suddenly more skilled for opting to make the harder on yourself by keeping the 4v1 alive. Just like you aren't less skilled for recognizing the best tactic to win and utilizing it.
It would be akin to saying survivors are bad if they complete gens, because if they were truly skilled they wouldn't need to work on gens.
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You see, I don't wanna sound cocky cause I'm sure you're pretty experienced in the game too. i have almost 4k hours in the game, when there's an early 3v1(3-5 gens left) the game is over unless the killer is really bad and the survivors are really good.
I played enough game in both rolls across these hours to know how to easily secure a win with a killer, no one said doing gens is skillfull, only looping is skillfull, I was talking about killer tactics on this post.
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Killers picking the best tactics does not make them unskilled. Part of being good at the game is knowing how to handle you are in. You can dislike the meta and wish the devs to change it. But getting mad at the players for using the best tools available is just being toxic.
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My problem is with how you phrased it. "easier to manage" thats a wrong statement in my eyes, the correct sentence is "the game is over". cause you've took a shorcut that the game allows. please explain to me why top killer main streamers never do 5 gen tunneling and only late game one if they lose? why they make it harder for themselves? I'm not getting mad at them, I'm giving them incentives cause some users say there aren't to not tunnel, you do you.
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Your mistake here is trying to classifying different levels of tunneling. Tunneling at 5 gens and Tunneling at 3 gens are not different. If the survivor team is unable to get gens done before they lose their first teammate, then of course the game is going to be harder for them. Matches that end at 5 gens are always the fault of survivors as there is little reason a team of 4 survivors with 3 survivors free of immediate pressure is unable to get at least 1 gen done.
At the end of the day, you are simply calling killers bad because their opponents messed up.
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the thing you are missing, when its 3v1 with 4 or more gens up, its a guarantee win. if you cant win against a 3v1 with 4 gens up, its on you.
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If there are 4+ gens up when a survivor dies, the survivor team failed to complete gens. There is little reason why a team of 4 people where only 1 person can be chased at a time is unable to get multiple gens done before the first kill.
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You still haven't answered my question about the streamers.I'm really curious to hear your reply to that.
Classying is important, the game was meant to be chase heavy with different players, while outplaying in chase gives you results.
Bhvr also offers a shortcut, tunnel the injured player out fast, he goes down in 1 hit and gets out fast, you do it quickly enough and the average team can't manage to pressure you back for a win or a tie. I'm just giving incentives to not take the shortcut cause by many people in the community it's not a skillful way to play.
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imo example of nerfing tunneling that (i think) couldnt be abused is not being able to get hit after being unhooked for some duration which is paused while in chase, and is ofc deactivated when performing a conspicuous action or if someone else is hooked. also wouldnt be able to drop pallets or go for like flashlight saves or stuff like that that could get abused
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There are many reasons lol, I can easily debunk that statement, I'll let you figure out yourself but if you can't I'll tell you why imo you're wrong with this idea.
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Personally (& it is just a personal preference) I play for 11 hooks (give hatch or gate) & I generally have a better overall experience for doing do.
Of course it means my mmr isn't god tier (neither are most who think they are anyway)
But if matches level out where I can have competitive games & play for hooks then I don't particularly care what my level is pretty much everyone seems to have a fun game & I get a lot of positive feedback too.
Of course theres the odd gen rushing, t bagging stomp fest but that's never particularly bothered me. & the odd oh your a trash killer (you know when getting a 2k with zero meta or gen regression & 6 + hooks)
Inflating my mmr just to get survivors where for the most part its tunnel or lose (so most killers keep saying) seems mind numbingly unfun (again personal opinion play how you want!)
I also feel as orginal poster eluded it makes me a better killer overall.
The vast majority of my games are 2k / 3k & I generally play Trapper, Doc, Bubba, Myers, Oni) so I'm not especially playing top tier!
Best personal advice play how you want, but if you find a decent level where you can enjoy the game for what it is all the better.
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The start of the game the killer is in the worst position. If the killer is able to not only keep gens from getting done and force a kill out, then they simply played better than you.
The idea that survivors not getting gens done is an issue the killer has to care about if they don't want to be considered "bad" is a made up thing people keep pushing so their opponents go easier on them.
It's very clear you don't want to improve at the game and just want your opponents to go easier on you.
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Okay with this comment I see that I have to debunk your statment, let's start:
- your average survivor isn't a good player, most players aren't god loopers and they go down in 20-40 seconds to your normal M1 killer that knows basic mindgames and his killer power.
- That's why most killers bring lethal/corrupt for a good early start.
- Once you got your first hook, one survivor needs to leave his gen to go save(in solo queue sometimes it's 2-3 people leaving and wasting gen time).
- Once the survivors see you tunnel, their instinct kicks in and they want to protect their friends, they want him to have fun and not being tunneled out so fast cause we all know how unfun it is to be tunneled out when you're injured.
- Getting the 2nd and 3rd down on your avg tunneled survivor is easy cause he's avg at chase and he's already injured, if you wait the bt he's done and u get the 2nd/3rd hook pretty quickly.
- considering he gets 2nd and 3rd hooked so fast and 1/2 survviors try to protect him cause they want him to have fun more than they want to win means you already won the game, they won't be able to finish the gens.
- even if they were doing the gens while he's being tunneled, since he goes down so fast cause he's injured promises he'll die before enough gens be done to pressure you back.
- the avg survivor will be eliminated in 2 minutes, 3 survivors can't do 4-5 gens in 2 minutes especially when 1 tries to protect the panicked tunneled survivor.
Bonus - you still didn't answer my question about the streamers.. if you don't want to tell me.
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- Survivors being bad does not mean the killer is bad for killing them
- Survivors can bring perks as well to help
- And yet survivors can still get 2-3 gens done before the first hook.
- There's always a time and a place for body blocks. Sometimes it is just better to let the killer chase the survivor and finish up gens instead of going for blocks. The survivor can be hooked twice before they are dead. Many games can be 0-1 gens left before that guy is killed unless there is a skill difference.
- Survivors have basekit bt now, You have OTR, DS, DH to help make tunneling you out take more time.
- You just need better game sense. AS I said there's a time and place for body blocks.
- Being injured does not mean you have to go down immediately. You can still put the killer on long chases even while injured. I had a game where a hag chased me for all 5 gens and there was an afk.
- A solo gen takes 90 seconds or 1.5 minutes. It's absolutely possible for 2-3 gens to be done in 2 minutes.
As for streamers, I don't watch streamers nor do I care about them. I also don't hold people I play with or against to the standard of streamers who play the game for a living.
All your complaints boil down to not wanting to put any blame on survivors for playing badly and just the killer for doing their job.
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- If he's afraid to chase other survivors then it means he's not comfy with his skills to win without hardcore tunneling.
- Works for killer too, bringing scourage hook, dead lock, pop can hold the other 3 or 2(cause 1 is always kinda not efficient cause he has to unhook the tunneled one) for much longer to finish the gens, noed can give u another free kill EVEN IF they finish the gens.
- If there's corrupt, not really, they have to be very efficient which your avg pubs team isn't, as i said not everyone is Hens' swf, majority arent.
- Yeah, your average team on pubs don't care and want to help the tunneled guy. only a swf can get to 1-0 gens left if u tunnel the avg survivor lol, it's very rare in a normal game without a swf.
- So? u can easily wait that bt, or cancel otr with the inital hit, DS is a joke and everyone knows that, DH won't work if u are mended already.
- I can trust my game sense, I consider myself a pretty good survivor but sadly my solo queue team mates are still not that much imo.
- It's not, it does for the avergae survivor who's not a good looper and gets angry and panicked when he's tunneled and needs to mends too with the black screen.
- Maybe on paper but a non cordinated team won't do it, you're only giving me some highly efficient SWF moves in your comments, do you ever play solo queue? maybe only killer.
Maybe you don't care but let me tell you, the reason they don't do that is cause they know they're skilled and they don't want easy wins, they want to entertain and they showcase it's possible to win by skills and not by taking an easy win route against the averge casual team. I put the blame on the survivors, I don't blame killers they can play how they want, I just want to make the community healtiher cause everyone would agree hardcore tunneling isn't healthy for the game imo.
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You making the assumption that if you don't tunnel you are skilled. Which is false, because skilled players can still tunnel survivors out of the game. Not to mention it's just an excuse survivors throw out so they don't have to learn from their own mistakes they made.
"I died, but it wasn't my fault. The killer was just unskilled with tunneling therefore I made no mistakes"
The killer's main goal is to kill you. It doesn't matter if they focus you out first or if they spread the love out. If they successfully kill all 4 survivors, they played better. Downplaying the mistakes survivors made so you can feel better about dying is a toxic mindset and won't help you improve.
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So as a killer main that avoids tunneling for the most part, most of my so called tunnels comes from the unhooked trying to body block for the unhooker instead of letting the unhooker take chase. Like i literally try to avoid the unhooked only to have them block a doorway and be mad that i then waited out their bt and sent them back to a hook. Just for reference I usually hook close to an area that's active because that's just good game sense, I'm not carrying a surv to a corner hook on swamp for obvious reasons.
Tunnelling is only a true problem when you can't loop and your team mates suck. It mostly affects solo q, if your swf is constantly losing then someone or multiple people need to get better at the game. Solo q gets a pass because of how hard it is to get competent teammates. I solely play solo q surv when i do play and get tunneled for the most part but that's a skill issue on my part, and I'm not too prideful to admit it. I have noticed that the more i play the longer my chases last and the more killer time I waste.
That being said there do need to be incentives to making tunneling less appealing like old school bbq, maybe a few perk reworks that give benefits if you are so many meters away from the hook after an unhook etc. I say incentives because no matter what tunneling will always be here because it's a strategy, just like in any competition if you have any game sense you always attack the weakest link or who you may think is the weakest link.
Finally I think a lot of it boils down to a lack of skill among the entire community to be honest bad killers and bad survs. Swf is always gonna be inherently better than killer 7/10 times if they're actually good. I think a lot of people think and feel better than they actually are. While hours played do play a part it does not correlate overall skill.
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Eh, I can improve but i'd say I'm doing pretty well. skilled players who tunnel can reach 1k win streaks which is funny already, u literally can't stop skilled killers who tunnel, but most of them that I see don't tunnel cause they trust their skills to win by pressuring, how the game was intended to be played.
It is the fault of the survivor, the killer can play how he wants as i said, if u wanna win by killing the first guy early do that. I think it's an unhealthy for the game against the average team and this post was made to give incentives to go for an healtheir way, take it or leave it.
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- survivors who do that deserve the "tunnel" I hate when they do that.
- I was talking all this time about your avg solo queue match, as i said in the comments, the avg survivor sucks and the avg solo queue team sucks, not many of us play in swfs on discord with sweat, it's a minority that killer mains think is a majority.
- There are none, that's why I gave incentives from my mind to help killers improve rather that just tunnel to win easily.
- Against a strong swf as i wrote at the top, it's sometimes mandatory to tunnel to get pressure, your avg team isn't a swf or a swf that plays well or a swf that plays well on discord.
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There is huge difference between tunneling 5 gens left and 3 gens left. They're completely different situations. When killer tunnels 5 gens left he has gone to the match with a plan to tunnel first survivor out as quickly as possible not even trying to win with more fair way.
When it happens 3 gens left killer could already gotten multiple hooks but decides now it's time to take someone out because he wants to secure win or survivors are gen rushing and killer can only try to win by tunneling. Either way it can be considered fair tunneling.
Yes it has truth to it that killers who tunnel at 5 gens left are not often good because killers who trust their skill don't often do it and don't find it enjoyable way to win. Unless it's blight/nurse going for win streak. Usually killers who are good don't even need to tunnel in order to win. Even im not good killer still win probably half my games without tunneling.
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Tbh the fact he doesn't understand these simple facts makes me think he's the "guy" I'm talking about in this post and he wants to justify his ways, cause I really can't understand his point of view at all.
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Ah after re reading your post i think we have the same thoughts. My post wasn't specifically directed at you but some others. If you dont mind me asking what killer do you main?
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Pig and blight main. and yeah sorry if I sounded agressive I work so I have to type fast here(explains the english mistakes too) lol.
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The only incentives not to tunnel can be provided by BHVR themselves. If they don't then the reasons you offer are just etiquette.
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Not really, if people want to feel skilled and improve at playing killer, I find it as a pretty good incentive.
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This all just feels like a flex on OP's part to say how good he is at the videogame. Congrats, you're good at the videogame. I'm not.
I'm a mediocre player with a bit less than 500 hours, mostly Killer, some Survivor. As it stands, if I'm not playing a high-tier Killer or playing against absolute baby Survivors, my average initial chase time is usually long enough for the remaining 3 Survivors to clear a gen (this is assuming I didn't bring Lethal Pursuer and the survivors didn't all spawn next to each other), with more time if it's a large map, a more gen completion if there are strong toolboxes and Prove Thyself at work. Sometimes the only option I have left is to tunnel a survivor because I literally can't find anyone else because it's Mother's Dwelling and I'm playing Clown and the generators are 500 miles apart. The reason you found a Survivor and caught them in the first place (bad awareness, lack of game sense, brass neck weird Archive etc.) could mean you're more likely to find them again instead of another Survivor, and if a Survivor is in front of you and you can injure or down them, why wouldn't you? It's hardly the first thing I plan to do in a match, but it usually ends up happening at some point regardless.
With that out of the way, the real incentives for not tunnelling should come from within the game, not how random internet forum stranger judges me for breaking his Honour Code. On most killers it is so much less stressful and more straighforward to tunnel than not to tunnel that going out of your way to get 8 hooks before securing a kill amounts to a kind of masochism. They tried to disincentivise repeatedly hooking the same survivor with that nerf to Pain Res, but, without adequate slowdown options, the most effective way to stall gen completion is still to tunnel a Survivor out so there's 25% fewer people working on them at a given time. The rarely-discussed corollary of 'tunnelling should be harder' is that 'not tunnelling– getting multiple hooks on multiple survivors– should be easier': that requires map changes, perk changes on both sides, changes to Killer powers and even fundamental changes to the flow of gameplay.
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1.Never wanted to flex anything, If I go against a strong team they force me to tunnel too(But I'll do it on around 3 gens or 2 when I confirm they're all pretty good), I also can struggle with a low tier killer as well.
2.at 500 hours means you're new, don't be hard on yourself, when I was on 500 hours I struggled as well
3.You say yourself that you go to the match and don't intentionally do it, my post is about people going with the mindset to intentionally do it without judging the team first, if they're good? how they play? they just go for it.
4.If you just tunnell all the time as i said you'll just face even more sweaty survivors that will do much more trouble for your current skill level.
5.I'm not telling you how to play I'm giving incentives, If they're not good enough don't take them and keep doing what you like, for a fact most killer mains got good cause they played a lot and learnt how to end chases quickly, if not you would see every killer main streamer just tunnels for the get go or lose if not which is not the case.
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It would be a free body block that forces the killer to find a way around them (wasting their time or downright letting the unhooker escape/get to a stronger loop) or forced to hit them and waste their time.
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Bear in mind a lot of the time the killer 'tunnels' is completely the survivor's fault:
The survivor got unhooked and then tries to bodyblock for someone, it's completely their fault if the killer goes after them.
The survivor gets unhooked and runs to the nearest gen or the gen they were working on before they got found last time and then are shocked when the killer quickly finds them and downs them.
The survivor gets unhooked and then runs right through the middle of the map, gets found and then downed.
I don't deny that there are obviously killers who purposefully go out of their way to tunnel a survivor but most of the time I see 'tunnelling' happening in games it's because the survivor didn't play defensively or stealthily in any way after they got unhooked. If you don't wanna get the killer after you again you need to actually -try- and not get found.
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I bear that in mind as i play killer as well.
If survivors do the things you've mentioned, I punish them as well cause they think they can get away with everything, which they can't. I told it to another user here on this post as well. I'm talking about the bread n butter wesker situation haha, you know what I mean :P
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You'd also lose collision with them, so even if they're standing between you and another survivor you'd just go right through them
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Yes there are certainly killers that hard-tunnel the first person they see and it does feel pretty ######### for that person if they're not a great looper. Unfortunatly there isn't really anything BHVR can do to stop it without completely reworking how hooks and hookstates work. They already added a basekit 10 seconds of Endurance and 10% Haste to almost always guarentee the unhooked person can reach a window/pallet/loop so they have something to work with. If the person is a good looper this is incredibly powerful, but if the person isn't a good looper then yes it's not gonna help much and they'll just go down pretty fast and get hooked again.
Incentives could help a bit, but they wouldn't stop someone being able to tunnel just as effectively if they ever felt like it, so it doesn't solve the issue really. If someone wants to win and doesn't care about extra BP or whatever then they'll tunnel.
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That's pretty silly, people want to win.
How many people do you know that play even a single player game handicapped to prove a point? (like say beating the game with the first weapon that is usually the most underpowered). Not everyone wants to win in style. Some just want to win, simple as that.
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I've heard the "lose collision" suggestion multiple times. Personally, I'm not sure how well that would work as we have no mechanic that even mimics something like that to tell how it would go. It seems like one of the stronger choices to help with this but then that does take away agency from the survivors if they choose to try to risk bodyblocking with BT.
But again, it's hard to say as this isn't currently a mechanic in game so it's hard to say what kind of abuses could come with it
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We kinda do! Like Myers and ghost face lose collision with survivors while stalking, and knight loses collision with survivors being hunted
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There is no incentive for not tunneling and no severe punishment tor tunneling so why should Killers play for hooks? Killers don’t even have a hook state UI to facilitate 8 hooking everyone first.
Furthermore the idea floating around that unskilled tunneling will just put Killers against players who can punish tunneling might make sense if matchmaking was more strict. Given how backfill can match Killers with less than 1k hours against Survivors of 2-4k hours, I would say Killers would still get matched against stronger/weaker survivors regardless of their win rate and playstyle if matchmaking couldn’t find enough Killers at that moment.
So to the average Killer, if they are gonna get players above their skill level regardless of how they play, they might as well win the games they can win with tunneling and take the occasional L against better players.
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Under this logic, isn't also a good way to solve problematic maps to just incentivize people to feel more skilled doing certain plays, because I personally have never seen a survivor handdicap themselves by not entering garden of pain main structure or badham house of pain, when the more skilled play is to play a loop where you can actually be caught by making mistakes.
But I have a feeling somehow you will disagree with the situation happening from the other side, but if you dont, then props to you, you trully are impartial to what you preach.
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The game is over? I got tunneled just a few hours ago and its not over. I did manage to loop the killer long enough, so that everyone else was able to do their objective. Tunneling isn't a playstyle which is giving a guaranteed win, like you make it sound. I love it being chased and i have no problem with being tunneled, because it makes me improve my looping skills. Most of the time we lost after someone got tunneled has been, when survs tried to tank hits, getting downed and then slugged by the killer, because he wants the tunneled person out of the game.
Of course there are ways to 4k without tunneling and camping, but imo if you go against good survivors with an other killer than blight or nurse (maybe spirit as well) you gonna have a hard time winning, if you go for "fair" 12 hooks.
The game isn't balanced for hooks, it is balanced for kills.
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Thats a very bad comparision. Survivors cannot win without finishing gens, but killers can very much win without hooking survivors thrice in a row.
Post edited by Rizzo on0 -
I don't know what to tell you.
Tunnel and camp is "fair".
They are meta right now.
You can't expect one side stop playing in meta way when the other side keep playing meta.
If you have a problem to deal with tunnel/camp.
Then here is the suggestion.
1.Be better at looping.
As simple as it seems, don't be the weak link in your team, then killer have to switch the target or the gen wil simply rushing in few minutes.
2.bring the counter perk to tunnel/camping.
If you really face lot of tunnel/camp killer,then bring something like break of records,DS,the perk can make you stay on hook longer,etcetc.
Which should buy you lot of time
3.play in swf.
Using teamwork and not in game program to gain the advantages,cover the weak link by team work and be more effectively to do everything.
If you don't want to play better, don't want to improve your build, don't want to have better teamwork.
I think it is UNFAIR to ask killer not playing in a better way to cover you don't want to be better.
Killer right now are suffering with zero viable regression perk (all the meta perk are those was being called meme perk)
Maybe you should improve yourself this time rather than make killer weaker again
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Well here's the problem. Most of the killer roster doesn't have an incentive to not tunnel because their kit just doesn't allow for map pressure. Sure clown might have antiloop and OLD wraith cloak movement speed on a worse cooldown, but it's still better to just patrol areas around the hook than go cross map for a different 2 hit chase that's probably gonna end up comp dropping pallets.
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Killer the tunnels are sometimes just really bad and when they show it. I always found it amusing.
Example: I had a Spirit on autohaven and she saw me First. Tried to down me. Tried 2 minutes to down me. No chance. She left me and found another on. Yeah the other three just potatoes easy down for the spirit. I did gens, unhooked, healed. Spirit ignored me. Another survivor dead on hook pushed the last gen with me.
Endgame: you know what is happening. Spirit wanted only me because now she has the time for me. Just me. Other survivor had fear to open the door and waited xD. Yeah ######### solo que. I died of course
But that was OK for me because the killer showed me he is just trash against good survivor. This killer want only potatoes. I mean she was smart to drop the chase with me of course, not every killer is so smart. But in the end I won.
If you dont like tunneling, learn to loop every killer. Give the trash killer what they deserve for that. And he has no chance. Imagine solo que, Killer try to find the weak one but no one is weak. Sometimes The Killer DC because of that. I cant tunnel so DC haha. If Not, the Killer get maybe one kill with hard tunnel but the team win. Sometimes you find a good lobby in solo que.
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Killers using best tactics aren't unskilled - Why that technically is true, I think someone who hunted an eagle with a throwing knife did better than the person using a flak cannon. That flak cannon user could be just as precise as the person using the throwing knife, but in this game more often than not it is because they lacked that skill, that they needed to resort to being carried by their choice of tools instead (be that Killer pick/add-ons/perks or strategies in game). People with the confidence and skill to hunt with throwing knives, like to bring throwing knives in order to show off their skill. People who want to get the 'free win' of a successful 'hunt' have a greater tendency to bring the flak cannon.
Getting mad at players using the best tools is toxic - Gunna have to hard disagree on multiple fronts to this claim. You can get mad at whatever you want, as long as you aren't taking it out of the game. Saying 'not cool' in endgame chat is far from toxic, whereas doxing them is clearly inappropriate. Also if I wanted a chill middle-ground shotgun game, but got a flak cannon opponent like mentioned above, the flak cannoneer just wasted everyone's time other than their own. Due to the asymmetrical nature of the game, all of the Survs need to be flak cannoneers to be equal to a Killer being the same. So luckily in that regard, only 1 soloq Surv being a jerk doesn't (strictly) destroy the match's potential for enjoyment. That being said map offerings are the closest to full jerk territory, regardless of the side (with an exception for T1 Myers, who is nearly only viable with an indoor map).
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