What if hook states lowered gen repair speed?
An idea I've had for a while to try and make spreading out hooks more rewarding for killers. Basically a survivor repairs gens slower the more hook states they have. Maybe 20% slower repair speed for one hook state and 40% slower for two hook states.
This would at least give the killer -some- kinda reason to not just tunnel because even if they go after someone else, gens are getting done slower now.
Now there's certainly some issues with this. Firstly it doesn't actually stop tunneling and some people will just keep tunneling. Another possible problem is that if the killer stacks a bunch of gen slowdown perks, it might be overkill if like all survivors were on death hook.
I'm curious what people's opinions on this idea are.
Comments
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Nearly everything about this is problematic.
- This implementation is 'win more' and nothing else. If the killer can get 2 hooks in before 2-3 gens are done the game is over, killer wins. If 2-3 gens are done before first hook, the debuff does nothing to help that.
- If anything you'd want it backwards, a reduction to gen efficiency that goes away with more hooks. Killers want the start of the game to slow down, survivors need time later in the game. Although, since it's always part of the discussion, ask yourself why survivors are being punished for tunneling with this solution? Because you can still tunnel the first survivor out and keep the 20% gen speed debuff forever.
- 20% gen speed is ludicrous, 40% is obscene. That makes base gen speeds 112.5s and 150s respectively, and even the 20% number is exactly why they nerfed Thana. At 40%, it's 30s faster to hang on hook for both stages (120s) than it is to finish one gen. Which leads to the next issue:
- This gigabuffs camping. Stand in front of your first hook and one of two things happens: 1) survivors leave them to die, but gens take 112.5s permanently. A single gen takes as long as the survivor dying on their first hook. Or 2) a survivor comes to trade at the hook, which now makes gens take 150s instead. It's a literal win/win for face camping, that it doesn't need.
- If you really want to give a reason not to tunnel, you'd have to make it less efficient than removing 25% of the survivor team. If you're taking the approach of buffs and debuffs, you'd have to buff survivors by more than 33% gen repair speed when one person dies. That works out to 3 survivors doing the work of 4 survivors, and the killer gains nothing for tunneling. I don't think I have to elaborate why that's also a terrible idea.
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Yeah instead of 2 guaranteed kills a bubba will get THREE!!! :( :)
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It would work if the lower time was a temporary debuff. Make it be 20-40% slower, but only last 60 seconds or so. Time enough (hopefully) to find and chase down a different player.
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As anti-tunneling, perhaps the best implementation would be to have it only effect the most recently unhooked survivor.
If it is a significant enough debuff, Killers would feel it worthwhile to chase anyone but the recently unhooked AND the recently unhooked survivor might feel their time is better served acting as a "support" player than sitting on a gen.
This might mean the unhooked survivor tries to get tunneled, because it benefits the team, but it also might inform gameplay decisions about when to boon a totem, for example, because doing the main objective is marginal at that time.
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I've said this in other threads, but any incentive not to tunnel needs to be as effective as removing a survivor from the game or most killers who tunnel will continue doing so.
If someone is intending to steal $20 from you and you offer them $5 not to, do you think they will accept that?
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dying light inflicts 3% debuff every time you hook a survivor. its already a perk but its garbage because 1 person is immune. the perk boosts healing speed for some reason and the reward is not worth it. Its already perk in the game but nobody uses it. too many negatives for no reward.
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4 survivors alive have 75% Gen strength. 3 alive have 133%. 2 alive have 200% is what I can think of.
4 survivors are strong, but 3 are so weak. They drop-more than 50% of Gen strength after 1 survivor dies, rather than just 25%.
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I like the idea, basicly because i proposed the same idea about 3 years ago.
I had some slight adjustments, however:
The first hook on each survivor lowers the gen speed by 20%, the second one only by 10%, but if a survivor dies, all remaining survivors get actually a speed buff, to compensate the lost manpower.
By that, it would be far better for the killer to hook every survivor once, then a second time, and then start killing them, which greatly helps against camping and tunneling. (it might incentivise slugging, however, but there are perks for that).
The overall gen speed and of course the speed lose percentages would have to be adjusted for a good level, but i think this idea is still valid.
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It still doesnt fix the first hook still cost 3 Gens. People's mentality think how fast the first 1-2 Gens done will think the remaining Gens will be done with similar time taken.
If the first 2 Gens done in 2min, people usually think 2 more Gens will be done in the next 2min, which they get the stress.
I believe, if the first Gen isnt done so fast, they will get less stress and the feel to tunnel.
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Yes, that might be true. When i lose 2 gens before i get the first hook, i feel like i am losing too. However, often enough i still get a 4k with one or no gen left. But the pressure is there.
But i doubt if the first gen was slower it would help that much. Because killers can resort to tunneling and camping at anytime they feel they lose and turn the match around.
Another thing i would like in this game is access to your own statistics. I kept statistics of my matches for a time, and facts then outweight feelings, because while i was thinking i was bad at playing killer (because whenever you get a swf group it becomes really hard), the stats showed me that my kill rate was actually quite high, and i started to play more relaxed. Maybe that would help others, too.
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Conceptually it's not a bad idea, though as others have mentioned the numbers are too extreme.
Any mechanic to try and encourage the killer to not tunnel runs into a couple of immediate problems
1: Eliminating a player is always going to be a massive benefit, so the trade off would have to be pretty substantial.
2: If you made a substantial change to benefit the survivors, they might just ignore someone on the hook, defeating the importance of rescues.
Here's the idea I came up with about this awhile back.
All survivors start at 75% gen repair speed.
When a survivor is hooked all others survivors gain gen repair speed (25/20/15/10/5%).
The hooked survivor's gen speed is reset to 75%.
So if you were a survivors and there were three hooks to other survivors, you'd have a gen speed of 135%, if you get hooked it drops back to 75%, but after another survivor is hooked you start the process over and are back to 100%.
This would slow down the rate of gens in the early game when the killer struggles the most, make survivors stronger as the game goes on, and if a killer completely misses a survivor they will become great at gens, giving the survivors a chance if the killer hard tunnels.
However, it's a complex solution to something that BHVR doesn't seem to see as that big of a problem. I think a much easier way to address tunneling would be if one survivor has more hook states than any other, he gets a permanent speed boost until another survivor equals him on hook states. Killer could still tunnel, but it would be more difficult.
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I think you misunderstand my suggestion. If a survivor gets hooked, they have one hookstate, only THAT single survivor will have a slower gen speed. It isn't some global debuff, it's ONLY the survivor that has hookstates, gets that debuff.
If the killer tunnels and camp then the three other survivors who have zero hook states will be doing gens at regular speed.
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If some kind of reward would be given by spreading hooks most killers would stop tunneling as they don't enjoy playing that way. Some would continue no matter what but if we get most to stop then that's already more than enough.
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Then I'm not sure what you're addressing.
You are targeting gen speeds for survivors, which means that you think the largest issue is gen rushing. But applying a debuff on hook means you'll likely still lose 2-3 gens in your first chase, which is the typical complaint.
By the time you hook 4 survivors the game is already decided. If 4+ gens are left by the time you've hooked all 4 survivors you're already destroying a solo q squad. With a full SWF, the gens are done by hook 3.
In either case, this solution has no impact on the outcome of the game. It's still 'win more', which I already addressed.
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Being basekit the way you put it would be stronger than Gift of Pain and potentially Hex Pentimento, so honestly sounds like a terrible idea tbh, and being tied to hook stages it would promote camping and tunelling.
I could see this being an interesting idea for a perk, maybe implemented as a Hex that gains token for each survivor you hook for the first time, with a maximum of 4 and having 10% debuff per token. Could promote chasing different players (less tunneling), would have a strong potential but also be counterable being a Hex. Consistency would be a "problem" as it could be high reward or simply gone early in game, but same applies to Devour Hope.
Another alternative I think could work fine as a perk being strong but also not overwhelming would be making something similar to Leverage (Gain a Token each time you Hook a Survivor, up to 10. This Perk activates whenever a Survivor is Hooked. Each Token reduces Survivor healing speed for a moderate duration), affecting repair speed instead of healing, with some tweaks on the numbers for balance.
I sincerely think we may end up seeing something like this come up as a perk someday, but as basekit? Most unlikely and unhealthy tbf.
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That mechanic wouldn't go over so well
The game is to finicky for that to work out well
If you see the game at it's base level you would realize that the game is broken (almost) beyond repair
There isn't much more that BVHR can do if they don't realize that for themselves... and skip a chapter (or 2)
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Built-in gift of pain!?
Count me in, that's a wonderfull idea.
Post edited by Spectralfx on0
