One of my biggest pet peeves w the community
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At this point you're asking for a massive nerf to Killers.
Hardly any Killer main would complain if the general gameplay flow would be shifted to reward spreading hooks over tunneling, but if you demand that a solution to a problem feld only by Survivors is paid for exclusivly out of the Killers pockets, you shouldn't be suprised if Killers point out that they don't want to pay for your fun.
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There is no solution to a problem felt only by survivors that wouldn't be paid out of killers' pockets, making spreading hooks more viable and doing nothing to make tunneling less viable is about as effective as politely asking killers to stop. As long as tunneling is an easy way to win most games killers will do it, the idea that giving killers nothing but buffs will solve tunneling is just wrong
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Also lol I have every reason to be surprised when killers point out they don't play for my fun because I never asked them to! It's concerning that there's more than zero ppl proving my exact point so precisely lmao
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I would ask a nerf to both killer and survivor. You would need a massive reward incentive to shift away from tunneling because it's easy to do and has game changing potential.
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Same bc the game is actually balanced rn just not fun if you want to win bc you're forced to swf, play a top tier killer, use top tier perks, tunnel, genrush, etc
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alas most of the "suggestions" to "fix" tunneling or slugging involve punishing killers, or buffing survivors. instead of making not tunneling more rewarding than tunneling
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Yeah bc those are the only things that would actually fix tunneling 🤨
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But not every killer tunnels to win though.
There are a lot of killers who've come to the forums over the years and straight up admitted they'll tunnel people out just to be annoying. Straight up have talked about how they threw very winnable matches just to tunnel someone out.
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Yes. The entire point is a huge double standard. Survivors want killers to make bad game decisions, so that survivors can have more fun..... but also think survivors don't need to make any bad game decisions so that killers can have more fun.
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this u?
try again, and read the post this time
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Ever play killer and the survivors finish blasting out two generators instead of going for the save? Then they try to run across the map right before stage two and you deny the unhook as killer?
"Gens before friends" is basically the tunneling mantra. Survivors were given extra time on the hook years ago so people would come unhook you. Instead survivors "optimize" the time by blasting generators until the last second. the only problem is that if the killer punishes then it backfires. Then he will tunnel them down since they are on death hook.
Ah yes you know my mind better than I do, buddy (/sarcasm).
Tunneling survivors out of the game is a made up term. The killer's job is to kill; you don't get all gens to 33% before you get them all to 66% do you? So I'm not going to hook each person once and get nothing. Hooking one person three times gives me a huge boost. So I'm gonna do that forever and always.
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I've seen the saying "tunnelling gens" quite a bit over the last several months and assumed people were parroting a content creator. My assumption was a streamer who starts with T, I'm curious if it was them.
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I read your post. It's still a double standard. Survivors want killers to be punished or forbidden, but don't want survivors to be nerfed to allow this to happen. They want killers to take the full burden of this game change.
Because if you want tunneling to be removed from the game, then it needs to be much easier to find someone else to chase. If you want to punish tunneling, then the game should also punish survivors that try to excessively hide from the killer. The game should force both sides to interact with each other, instead of just forcing killers to change, and allowing survivors to be as non-interactive as possible.
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Ah ok, now you're actually talking about the game changing instead of player behavior changing, took ya long enough. Anyways yeah, still no double standard bc I only used tunneling as an example for my point, and had nothing to do w the point itself. (And I literally never said that I wouldn't want survivors to be nerfed in a way that compensates)
Also this :)
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When the gen regression META was most powerful killers still tunneled and camped. A lot easier, in fact.
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And how do you nerf camping and tunneling to compensate? Or do you only buff killers ignorant to the fact that there's nothing stopping someone from still camping and tunneling w these buffs. Also that devour idea is completely terrible even if camping and tunneling get absolutely gutted
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Exactly it's always been bc tunneling is easy, I don't think nearly as many ppl tunnel bc they feel forced to as some ppl act like there is
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Actually making Devour a non hex would incentivise going for multiple chases. The insta mori and insta down could be changed to 7 and 5 hooks respectively for balance
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Giving killers a flat buff and no nerf will not fix camping or tunneling. Ever.
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My point stands. Nothing you’ve suggested would stop tunneling or camping. Buffing killers, incentivizing hooking, none of that is gonna stop a killer from tunneling b/c that’s still, in all of your scenarios, the most optimal path to victory (creating a 3v1 ASAP). And it says nothing about people who tunnel and camp just to frustrate others.
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The Bubba that just camps the first person they hook does not care
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Camping killers receive the benefit of playing a 3v1?? What do you mean they receive no benefit?
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Yes but does it matter if they have no strong decentive not to camp?
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Once again, killers receive the benefit of playing a 3v1. You’re not disincentivizing camping in this scenario so yes, you are asking a for a literal flat buff.
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Maps have to be shrunk first. Given how long devs take to update maps and push out new maps with the same issues, it’s not happening anytime soon.
Having a perk that rewards chases and spreading pressure gives Killers a playstyle choice that encourages them to leave the hook. Pop, old Scourge/Ruin etc.
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Or to be annoying or because it's easy, something which flat buffs won't change at all
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Yesterday I had a match against a Huntress who was obviously inexperienced - problem was that it’s hard to tell when we’re in the corner of a map doing gens praying it’s not gonna be a iri head, lethal hot shot killer. I play with friends but without voice comms so sometimes it’s hard to communicate that it’s best to ease off until someone mentions it in chat that it might be an inexperienced player.
in this case yesterday, we did a couple of gens then ‘trained’ the killer - gained her trust by letting her hit, then hook. She got on board and I set up a boon exponential and we all went on different spots allowing her to aim and hit us, reload at lockers and practice targets. We all got up cos of the boon and let her keep getting us from different angles.
rather than just farm, in this match we like to think we all had fun and not just points for hooking and unhooking and doing gens/pallets on killer. The killer actually got really good as well and we joked “we’ve created a monster!”
actually I’m a pretty bad survivor even now but when I was a total noob, I remember and cherished the occasional killers who, even though they were so far better than me that they could literally have killed me in moments, instead took the time to practice with me instead - basic loops, even hitting skill checks which was hard for me at the time.
That’s why I’ll try to never let a baby killer get 0 hooks at the very least. If I’m at iri 1, I’ll always let a less experienced killer kill me if we totally outplayed them due to the difference in abilities. Or if I know killer brought a mori, may as well let them use it on me if we already won the game.
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As a long time lurker and recent nooby contributor, its unfortunate that comments on most threads tend to attract irrational and antagonistic replies, often laced with scourn, seething contempt and repetitive one-upmanship.
I’m a survivor main who doesn’t really play killer (I can’t play first person view) and I come to this forum which I would say has a more killer main heavy representation - though many are very rational and fair in their views even when I don’t necessarily agree. But I do so to try and learn what issues killers have as it’s not one I relate to naturally. I’m pleasantly surprised to have had many killers present their points in a way that I have genuinely been educated.
But when there is such partisan almost feverous ‘us v them’-ness it just becomes tedious. Always seems to be the same handful who sabotage any thread or discussion with the same repetitive rejections of what I feel are important discussions.
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With a cap? Then yes. He uses that term for some reason
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The problem I experience a lot is that people say "nerf tunneling" without also agreeing to then buff killers in other ways to make up for it.
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you should be able to make suggestions without ppl going "it's part of the game" as if that means it should be.
Amen.
It's rather comical seeing what this discussion devloved into, given the intention of your post.
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« Being a harsh killer also means the survivors shouldn't go easy on you »
Survivors will never go easy on you. If you win it’s only because they made mistakes, not because they were being nice.
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"Survivors want killers to be punished or forbidden, but don't want survivors to be nerfed to allow this to happen. They want killers to take the full burden of this game change."
The problem is that survivors want killers to be punished for playing efficiently (tunneling) but they want to break the killer's 3 gen setup and "rush" (tunnel) the gens for an easy win. You can't have it both ways.
-"Because if you want tunneling to be removed from the game, then it needs to be much easier to find someone else to chase."
There was a discussion years ago on the developer discord and it went something like this: If I am skilled enough then I should be able to loop the killer forever. That doesn't make any sense as there are 3 other players who can do generators. It might make sense if the killer could stall the generators forever. We kinda had that last patch to a degree and both sides hated it.
-" If you want to punish tunneling, then the game should also punish survivors that try to excessively hide from the killer. The game should force both sides to interact with each other, instead of just forcing killers to change, and allowing survivors to be as non-interactive as possible."
So much truth in one post. DBD probably should have given the killer BBQ vision with every hook. It was a good mechanic that lets the killer have an objective besides camped the dude on the hook.
I love good stealth play but the problem is that stealth play was born at a time when there was no looping. DBD should be a game where you can loop or stealth but not both. The problem is that you can most definitely do both as a survivor and that's not really fair to the killer.
I've been using that term for almost 2 years now. It's silly when survivors cry about killers tunneling and its silly when you say survivors are tunneling gens. Both sides are supposed to do that.
It's equally fun for both sides when your objective becomes impossible.
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:)...
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I've been saying for a long time that DH needs to go poof. It's dumb and almost never works. But when it does work that game is just completely ruined to play.
That's not true. Quick and easy example : you make not tunneling stronger than tunneling /gasp.
Give the survivors a 9% debuff to everything the first time they are hooked if nobody is dead yet. This will make the killer want to stack a quick -36% debuff by getting 4 hooks on different players. Make the debuff stay for the rest of the game once earned.
This will drag the game out as gens will take ~122 seconds when the full debuff hits. So everyone plays for longer; no more does Jake get hooked 3 times in the first two minutes and everyone else plays without him for 4-8 minutes.
IF you have an option that is stronger than camping/tunneling then most killers will do that.
The reality is that Blight and Nurse can get super quick downs so they don't need to camp or tunnel. The rest of the killer cast is pathetic by comparison and needs to tunnel and camp vs efficient teams.
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Excuse me?
Pop was obliterated. Eruption was obliterated. Every gen regression "buff" gained in 6.1 was lost in the last patch.
Killer is in a "nerfed" state considering the times before 6.1 when you look at the game as a whole. Yes DH was annoying but I played around it with STBFL. Not getting to use gen regression hurts way more.
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Keep tunneling as easy as it is now and people will still do it even if not tunneling is stronger. If you want to actually fix tunneling you should have no problem with it being nerfed
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I comprehend your point, hon, and I find it disagreeable. Folks here need to abandon the idea that a person not agreeing with them means the person doesn’t get it. I understand exactly what you’re saying. I just think you’re completely wrong. Lol. You want killers to be buffed b/c you think that’ll disincentivize tunneling/camping but buffing killers in anyway won’t stop camping or tunneling. When killers were at their strongest they still did both—way more easily. So buffing them? Yeah. It’s a bad idea. It’s a bad point.
Post edited by Ayodam on1 -
I think the big reason that many killer players get defensive is because a lot of survivors outright demonise killers who tunnel. They don't just complain about tunneling as a method, they outright hurl abuse at the killers who do it. The whole "baby killer needs to tunnel to win" mentality is pretty prevalent and so it's no wonder when someone complains about tunneling, killers are gonna defend themselves.
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I’m a little confused about something. You say you tunnel and play harshly because it’s a counter measure for you against strong swfs. But you also mentioned (maybe in another thread) that you actively dodge all lobbies and that hint swfs AND screen snipe TTVs (not all TTVs play swf) -meaning you’re tunnelling and sniping against soloQ players?
although I don’t agree with tunnelling I can semi understand if you felt (as you’ve said many times) it was something you use to offset against the advantage of survivors in swf, but it now appears you just want to have a total stomp. Is that fun?
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Every killer nerf/buff in 6.1.0 can be matched with a survivor nerf/buff from the same patch, with the exception of the general killer improvements. I hate to ride numbers, but kill rates went up after the patch for a reason. Only significant killer nerfs since then have been nurse nerf, eruption nerf, basekit bt buff, and solo hud which doesn't count bc we're talking about what buffs killer got to compensate for solo getting buffed, could almost say the same for eruption tbh
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As you will quickly find out, they don't believe in those stats.
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You need to realize Tunneling is forced upon the killer because the game has very safe tiles AND because survivors tunnel gens.
I would love for gens to be longer and killers dont want to chase the same person because there is a better bonus waiting
-" but it now appears you just want to have a total stomp. Is that fun?"
My games are not a total stomp. I just screen out the ones where I would likely get flattened. Where do you get the impression I want easy games? I want fair games. The problem is that in order to have that with "low" tier killers that I enjoy playing you need to stack the deck a bit.
I haven't played Nurse or Blight in years. They're unhealthy for the game as a whole being so much better than everything else.
About 10 mins ago I played a game vs a dwight that looped me for almost the entire duration of my corrupt. It didn't matter in the end because nobody could work on the gens near where he was looping or hooked. In a sense I allowed it as he was burning very strong pallets. That game was razor close and I should have lost but the survivors made a few major mistakes. One player went down for the dight and the team left them on the floor. They finished the last gen then got that person up but I got someone else down in the meantime.
I ended up getting 3 kills that game because people made huge mistakes. But if you look at the majority of my games they have been razor close. If I played "nice" it would be three players out every game.
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-"Every killer nerf/buff in 6.1.0 can be matched with a survivor nerf/buff from the same patch"
Let's look at the direction of the game since then. Are gens faster or slower? They are faster because gen regression got obliterated. That's really interesting because before 6.0 I was popping gens for 20 seconds six to nine times per game. That's an added two to three minutes to the survivor objective.
Quite often I would pop a gen someone was working on and they run off. I chase the guy I was after hook them and go right back to the gen poppnig it - invalidating everything that guy on the gen was doing.
That's gone. The problem with 4v1 is that you need to have some kind of mechanical advantage where you're making progress of some kind. You don't advance hook states anymore without sacrificing gens unless the team is super passive.
Today I lost three gens before losing corrupt. I was playing nemesis and had two whips/punches on two players and a grab on a very silly survivor. It was absolutely unreal. There was only one toolbox (no bnp) and no real gen rush perks either. It would not surprise me if someone in that game was cheating the gen speeds but we'll never know.
As a matter of fact most of the 6.1 buffs to killer are basically gone. I would rather play 6.0 killer than whatever patch we are on now. This is the supidest meta ever since we had infinite windows.
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Killer will always tunnel, they always have even when they had erruption. When the Killer wants to tunnel he will. As survivor just enjoy the chase, try your best. You probably die at the end but your other teammates escape. So you won as a team. And lets be honest, when you get tunnel for 5 gens you have more fun then sitting on 5 gens. Of course, not everyone sees it that way.
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So now we have...
Survivor Group A:
Wants interaction with the Killer... but doesn't like to be Tunneled out of the game
Survivor Group B:
Wants the game to be done ASAP... but can't contribute anything cause they were the ones Tunneled
Survivor Group C:
Doesn't want to interact with the Killer so they will hide when they hear the heartbeat... it happens but they are left to die cause they were the last ones found
Killer Group A:
Camps and Tunnels every match... then says that's what Killers do
Killer Group B:
Doesn't Camp nor Tunnels... then gets BM'd the whole match and sees it in the End-Game Match Chat
Killer Group C:
Picks and choses when they Camp or Tunnel... then still gets mean or rude messages in the End-Game Match Chat
Player Group A:
Plays the game for what it is... switches between Survivor and Killer when the BP bonus is highest
Player Group B:
Plays for fun... on either side but gets Camp, Tunneled, Gens get done quickly
Player Group C:
Plays the strongest stuff in the game and has stuff to say to whomever they played against/with
There's nothing fun about this game in the grand scheme of things... this community is pulled in every direction with outliers in every corner of it
It's up to BHVR to tighten the reigns a bit... there is no Un-ranked mode... there's no different type of gamemode (2V8 or 5V5)... can't get BP for KYF matches... some of that needs to be addressed so we as gamers can play how we want without players that don't
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I think that's the core of most issues this community has. If people here would see other players as other players instead of scheming villains we'd be able to have constructive dicourse.
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well killers were entitled to whining about deadhard because survivors objective was surviving.
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It's because there are certain "unwritten rules" for various games that imply the overall fun and longevity of the game. You aren't allowed to look when playing Hide-and-Seek, because that defeats the spirit of the game. Same as just showing every player every other player at all times; it's that type of 'information' where each piece becomes more useful and allows you various advantages or disadvantages in the goal for your side (this is also what makes perk choice such a big deal).
You can argue all you want that certain behaviors are 'fair-game' since cheating and griefing are the only rules, but aren't you upset when a fellow Survivor blocks you somewhere to waste your time, or work with the killer to let them win? Part of the game is worrying about camping, tunneling, etc. but some are more offensive than others and can break 'the spirit of the game.' If such behaviors become too common, there will be an overall lack of fun in playing, and people will start migrating into other games, killing this one off. There are plenty of us who still do enjoy playing, even if just occasionally, and want the servers, and playerbase, to be supported for a while yet.
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I get what you’re saying and I like your thought process but very rarely does example 1 play out like your wrote it in my experience, especially solo queue which is the majority of players. Most survivors are rather altruistic and when they see someone is getting camped they try their best to save because they’d hate if that happened to them.
This is all my anecdotal experience though so take it with a grain of salt.
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