If you think tunneling and camping are toxic...
...Then be the change you want to see. Do not teabag, do not emote at the Killer, do not BM, at all. Especially not when the Killer is playing nice.
When a team of Survivors escape, it is almost guaranteed that at least one of them will teabag if I go to the exit gates. And many will wait out the EGC timer if you don't chase them out, too. This happens remarkably consistently; it's seemingly never enough for Survivors to take their W and move on, someone's always got to rub it in the Killer's face first.
And then those same Survivors will often get mad at you when you respond in kind. Ignoring that tunneling and camping are viable strategies that see regular use in comp play, Killers play mean because... what do they get out it if they play nice? More teabags at the exit gates?
And to you, sure, teabagging is just this once and doesn't tangibly do anything, so you might see it as harmless and have trouble seeing how it might negatively impact others. But for the Killer, it's not just this once. It's every match, and it's hard not to take it personally when BM is the rule and not the exception, when seemingly every Survivor you meet sees fit to kick you when you're down.
And sure, maybe not everyone who teabags at the exit gates means it maliciously, but if something is considered to be toxic near-universally by the Killer community, I think it's time to get a different signal if you're trying to be friendly. Might I suggest nodding? Or the old classic: If you can't say anything nice to someone, don't say anything.
Comments
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Sadly, from my experience, trying to be "the change you want to see", one ends up in:
A) accepting that thee are many shitheads while keeping up your own noble principles
B) the same acceptance but no longer giving a crap and joining the circle
C) running out of patience/endurance with people and in the end quitting the game (me)
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I know the is bait and generic us vs them but tunneling and camping happen even if theres no tbsgging, bm, etc in a match, so..
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I literally never do any of that and I still get BM
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Love these threads. If we took out all the BM, Dbd wouldn't be dbd anymore. Literally makes it more competitive. Sometimes itll aggravate you to play a lil harder, maybe even scummy. Truly horrific as the game intends.
Man I hate camping. But man if it went away, games would get pretty stale. You really want to take face camping Bubba away from us?
Really really?
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Boggles my mind how someone can get so upset at something as a fast crouch/"t-bag". Then relate it to camping/tunnelling as if they are the same thing.
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I really expected this to say "Then be the change you want to see. Do not camp, do not tunnel" but uh yeah ok
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If it wasn't intended to make killers upset, survivors wouldn't do it.
The ongoing argument of "killers shouldn't get upset over a simple crouch/tbag" is tiresome. If it shouldn't affect killer, there is no reason for survivor to do it.
Oh that's right..it is done to make killers angry and then survivors come here and pretend they can't possibly understand why it's upsetting..but continue to do it, because they know......exactly what message they are conveying, whilst doing it.
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Very this. All of this.
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The statement that survivors only crouch spam (t-bag) to make killers upset is a generalization that is not always true. Some survivors may crouch spam to taunt or annoy killers, but others may do it for other reasons. For example, some survivors may crouch spam to communicate with each other, to signal to a killer that they are friendly, or to simply express their excitement or frustration.
It is important to remember that not all survivors are the same, and that their motivations for crouching spam can vary. It is also important to remember that crouching spam is not always intended to be malicious. In some cases, it may simply be a harmless way for survivors to express themselves.
Here are some additional points to consider:
- Crouching spam is a common behavior in many online games, and it is not unique to Dead by Daylight.
- Crouching spam can be used for a variety of purposes, both positive and negative.
- It is important to be aware of the context in which crouching spam is used before making assumptions about the intentions of the survivor.
- It is also important to remember that not all survivors are the same, and that their motivations for crouching spam can vary.
In the end, it's up to you if you want to get upset over it. But comparing it to camping/tunneling isn't the way to go.
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Come now. We cant have an actual explanation that makes sense because it will ruin the BMing and such. My immersion!
We're entitled to that! Its difficult to hit the ctrl button real fast. Have you tried it?! Crazy hard.
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While your explanation of why "crouching/tbagging" isn't BMing is cute, I think keeping in line with your "points" it is very important to keep in mind the context..so let's see...
If you are "crouching/tbagging" directly to the killer it is unlikely you are trying to communicate with another survivor.
If you are dropping pallets and "crouching/tbagging" after, it is safe so say you are not trying to communicate with another survivor.
If you are dropping tbags mid loops or after window vaults, it is safe to say you are not trying to communicate with another survivor.
If you are tbagging at the exit gate..once again, you are not trying to communicate with your team.
Trying to play it off as "you don't know the message" is ridiculous. Yes we do and so do you. If it was a message to your teammates, we wouldn't even be seeing it.
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Yikes. Maybe DBD might not be for you.
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I mean they aren’t really analogous (teabagging/pointing and camping/tunneling) because two are annoying but the others technically prevent game play. But I understand that your point is both are frustrating to experience.
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Sorry to blow up your thread with a harsh dose of reality but I never do any of those things that make killers so angry and I still get tunneled and camped. So ya.......
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Why? Because I disagree with you on why survivors tbag?
Sad that your response to someone not agreeing with you, is to tell them to stop playing DBD.
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Survivor tbags at the gates = 0 impact on your game as killer.
Killer facecamps a survivor = that survivor is guaranteed to die, will probably get 5k BPs, and super boring game for the 3 other survivors.
Both are BM but you can't genuinely believe they are comparable.
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I personally don't think they're comparable, though I think one is influenced by the other. Action meet reaction.
But I think we need to start being honest about why people crouch/tbag and stop writing long explanations as to why it isn't BMing...or telling someone who disagrees with us that DBD isn't for them. That to me is ridiculous.
Tbagging is done to BM. Fact.
Tunneling and camping is not the same as Tbagging. Also fact.
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Be the change 😂😂 come off it. I don't bag, I don't flashlight, I do gens, take decent chase, and if the killer doesn't get a kill, I'll give myself to him to make him feel better, but don't pretend that if survivors didn't bag, killers wouldn't tunnel. That's just silly talk.
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Face camping at least gives the killer some advantage in some circumstances. And if it happens to me, then I'm out the game quick and free to look for a new one. Tbagging has null reason to exist other than to taunt and mock, and it never fails to make a bad killer game a bit worse, or a good killer game a bit worse.
The pettiness makes it worse--it's saying "Even though this gives me no advantage at all, I still want to take time out of my day to make you feel bad."
And you know what? I could "just toughen up", but I shouldn't have to. I disagree that you should have to be jaded, closed-off and emotionally numb to participate in a social game, because dbaggerery is something nobody can make the effort not to be part of. How about if, no matter what role we're playing, we don't give someone else a game we wouldn't want to be on the recieving end of?
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👏🏻 👏🏻👏🏻
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Tbagging is only toxic if you let it be. It’s your choice whether or not to get upset about it. It’s a much healthier mentality to accept that some people will try to BM no matter what and just move on with your day. It has no effect on gameplay whatsoever.
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Already doing that , and in both roles ! =)
I do find it's easier to set the mood of the game as killer, because there's a lot of silly things you can do to show that you're going in chill and are not going to tunnel or be toxic, and most times my survivors respond in kind.
As survivor, you can just.. not be toxic, and often that's not enough. Especially since one (1) person being toxic on your team, that you might not have chosen to play with, will inevitably bundle you into a "toxic SWF" mental image and mean you'll get BMed even if you didn't do anything.
I personally don't respond in kind with toxicity if I see a killer or a survivor being stinky stinkers, because I don't want to feed the cycle.
If we want players in general to be more positive and see less BM in game, regardless of the role, the change can't be expected to come from only one side. People have to be more positive and less salty and get rid of that chip on their shoulder.
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Why take it out on the the next set survivors because someone last game t-bagged you? Is that your idea of fairness? Do bullied people somehow gain the right to be bullies to others and no one has to complain? You might not even participate in that type of behavior, but there are killers who try to justify their behavior for taking out their anger on random survivors because they got bullied by a SWF yesterday.
Tunneling also gives advantage but there are people who get tilted and tunnel the guy who is being annoying to them even if it means they lose the game. So in that context tunneling is not used to progress the game in any way, it's used as a toxic tool as well. Face camping can be the same, defending that shows your bias, because many times choosing those actions means throwing the game. It doesn't mean achieving two goals with one strategy (showing your bully survivor who is the boss AND winning your game).
There are many people who are power-tripping whether they are playing one role or the other. You don't have to justify either of them because you play killer/survivor and are biased. I also find it in bad taste when survivors on my team flame the killer in end game and it's obvious they are a beginner or something, but I also find it silly and self-centered when killers bleed you out for whatever reason they thought you offended them.
Sometimes there's just no explanation other than "they can" for why people are ######### in games. It doesn't mean they have been victimized or they are victimized still.
Yesterday I played against Twins and I t-bagged Victor once near end game. Should the killer if he was able to down me left me to bleed out for 4 mins over that one t-bag that wasn't even pointed at the player behind the screen but more so the killer himself? Should a killer who hit you once on the hook be verbally abused at end chat by the survivors or something? Wouldn't that sound like an overreaction to you?
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You've got it backwards. Teabagging interferes with you emotionally, but it doesn't make you lose anything in-game.
You can still play with the remaining survivors, you still get BPs based on your performance, and you've still played a normal game of DBD.
In contrast, facecamping literally prevents somebody else from playing the game, and will ensure they've wasted their time, just because the killer decided so.
Imagine if everytime a survivor teabags at the exit gates you as killer instantly got kicked out of the game with only 5k BPs.
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Where does it end? You take away the survivors ability to tbag and they’ll just find other ways to piss you off. Play against bots if it truly bothers you that much.
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Where does it end? You take away the survivors ability to tbag and they’ll just find other ways to piss you off. Play against bots if it truly bothers you that much.
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I don't do these things already. Hasn't seemed to help.
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Like tunneling, teabagging needs a gameplay incentive so people can defend it by saying they use it because they want to win.
I suggest gaining a token that increases gen speeds by 10% everytime you teabag in the killers TR while in line of sight. Cooldown is 60 seconds and you lose the tokens when hooked.
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I never said I take it out on the next set of survivors, that was all your fevered imagination. All I said was that sometimes, tunnelling does confer some advantages (ie, the other survivors try for rescues instead of just banging gens and leaving) even if it is still scummy and unfun for the person on the other end, and REALLY needs some serious attempts to disincentivise it.
Yes, there are toxic killers too, beyond a doubt. Ran into quite a few of them. Thing is, I'm fairly sure the vast majority of people who are toxic from either camp think of it as "just getting revenge", because at some point in the past they loaded in for a chill and fun horror game, then got subjected to anti-fun tactics and dbaggery. So then they take it out in their next game, and create the next generation of us-v-themming, "see how you like it" toxic players.
Why not break the cycle?
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I said why in the post you replied to. In my 100% subjective personal experience...if I get face camped, then I can punch out early and get into a new game. Get a SWF command team as killer, the sort that's obviously hopeless two minutes in, and I'm stuck until the endgame timer has 3 seconds left, because it's just so important to mock and taunt from a position of total safety.
(Would really like to see "knocked out of the gate" removed from the game, it advantages nobody except toxic players.)
Of course, it doesn't really matter if one experience is objectively 10% worse than the other, because they both suck. We'd all prefer it nobody did that to us, and maybe we should decide "hey, even if that kindness is never visibly reciprocated, let's not do it to others".
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Tea bagging has been part of PVP gaming ever since I have been playing them.
Leave it to the DBD community to throw massive hissy fits about it and threaten to ruin anyones match that does it to them.
😂😂😂
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We're basically making the same point in that case.
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While yes this is true and I agree.
Camping and tunneling are also the fastest way for the killer to win the game. So yes survivors should stop with the childish BM, they also need to understand that killers are slowing their gameplay down considerably by playing "nice" and should also do the same.
That way, the killer still gets a fair chance to win and isn't being punished by being nice by the same people they're being nice to.
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The two aren't linked. Some killers will tunnel or camp without any provocation. Some survivors will BM at the exit without provocation. It's a chicken-and-egg scenario.
These things are done for any number of reasons and other than the grey area of teabagging at a gate, if a survivor emotes or teabags during a game then it's clearly a tactic.
All individuals have responsibility to "be the change you want to see".
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The dance to normalize teabagging is so ######### ridiculous. If you want to hurt people, just own it.
The medium is abstract, but the sentiment sure isn't. Mocking. Taunting. With the essence of "I'm better than you & there's nothing you can do", that's "HAHA YOU SUCK LOSER"
If that's what you want, okay, cool.
If it's not what you're actually meaning, maybe don't ######### do it?
Hiding behind hypothetical ambiguity and "I don't mean it so harshly" is just cowardly. People interpret based on the context at large, which means the impact is exactly the same as if you had meant it, and I assure you the gesture of symbolically rubbing your genitals on someone's face is not a token of respect and equality.
Stop deluding yourself about it being a "them" problem how the specific stuff you're doing to intentionally annoy and degrade people ends up mysteriously leaving them feeling belittled and angry.
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You're in the minority. Personally teabagging doesn't bother me in the least bit. I main Ghostface so I just teabag back. Big deal, it's a game. That being said, I also play to win so if that involves tunneling and camping then so be it. If I have two of you on basement hooks then you can bet your teabags that I'm not letting either of you out if I can stop it.
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not the teabag...sheesh. i choose not to let them bother me. they literally mean nothing to me
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Honestly, what world are some of you living in?
Players who play for efficiency even if it ruins someone elses experience are monsters, but players who go out of their way to ruin other players experience just because are doing nothing wrong? What?
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"I only waited at the exit gate for the whole 2mins, because I wanted to give you some more BP and a free hit. Pinky promise."
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The crouching mid loops really depends on who the killer is for the bm vs not bm.
Example going against huntress or some of the other ranged killers where if you crouch at the right time you can make the killer miss the hit that isn't BM but more of a dodge.
While going against a killer who is without range and doing it while they can see you but a decent distance away that can usually be a BM but not always one
Then there is the crouching to try to confuse the killer and sneak away that isn't BM just a tactical retreat
I'm not one to do the BM tbag/crouch I'm usually using tbag/crouch for thank yous or hey mind healing me and if I do it around a killer it is usually for dodging or trying to get their attention for something that isn't meant for BM
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You get the point where they teabag AT THE EXITGATE. What means they are save from everything. One the flip side you could say tunneling is the save way to prevent teabags.
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You get yourself more points for that and steal points from the killers ranking, because if he hits and you escape he has lost a chase which maybe results in a minus pip.
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I honestly don't ever BM the killer at all, or bully them. I just try to escape cases or survivor, do gens and always leave asap.
Howeber the tunneling and such always happens. I've learned to laugh it off and move onto the next round. :)
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You are missing the point where the OP and others including yourself, are trying to justify camping and tunnelling because of these tbags though regardless of where they take place in the match, yes? By the way, in which neither of those things are toxic, and tbags aren't either and people should play however they want.
I stand by what I said, this is a generic bait/us vs them post that has been posted to death on these forums, reddit, twitter, etc, and to be honest they are incredibly tiring and repetitive in which the entire premise of any of these posts are based on a strawman and genericized and hyperbolic survivor (or killer, depending on who is making the bait/us vs them threads) behavior that half of the time I can't tell if people actually care or if they are just looking to rile people up or make themselves mad.
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true. people should play how they want and true teabags and stuff like that isnt toxic. (the toxic part begins in the engame chat if it get taken out of the game)
I just want to show you, that you cant say I can do this, because he does this. If you want to tunnel feel free to do that if you want to teabag at the exitgate do that, but if you do first dont expect the other side to be nice about it and dont expect theyour next killer/survivors to be nice to you. If you do one thing of these two you just put an other piece to the infinite vicious circle.
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