Hook grabs, do the devs have an opinion about them?
For a few years hook grabs has been a topic that is brought up when talking about camping, i have seen multiple survivors and killer mains in favour of removing them because they feel unfair and promote a waiting mini game with lag.
But what are the devs thought on the matter, during the last year many interactions have been removed like locker saves and lightburn, BT became base kit, more killer with anti camping in their power. Even a similar mechanic the hatch grab was removed in the past.
So, why isn't hook grabbing being discussed more or is it even the devs intention to change it?
It's an unfair mechanic that mostly punishes uncoordenated team play, aka, solo q.
The devs already seem to be ok with hook trading, but hook grabbing removes that balance and makes it RNG with lag.
So, again, will hook grabs be removed or are the devs ok with it?
Comments
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Well compared to hatch grab it was legit an indefinite waiting game because killer couldn't close hatch back then so if they hit the person they would get hatch.
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And adding the close hatch option let them get rid of the hatch grab as well so that balanced out. But hook grabs are fine. If you think he's close enough to grab just fake it until he hits you than unhook. The only way that doesn't work is if you waited until that person was literally a couple seconds from dying anyway and at that point it's the other survivors fault for letting it get that far.
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The devs have never spoken on removing hook grabs and honestly they shouldn't remove them.
Soloq play doesn't have to be uncoordinated, but it often and honestly a lot of grabs aren't coming from a killer just standing there and face camping. They come from survivors being too bold and aggressive trying to make what are legitimately bad saves rather than waiting for the killer to get some distance away. Survivors want to force interactions at every available avenue even to their own detriment sometimes when letting the killer walk away for a bit is actually the smart play. It doesn't look cool, but neutralizes hook grabs.
Soloq being uncoordinated isn't a killer centric issue, it's a survivor centric issue. Getting rid of hook grabs won't make teams any more coordinated it just removes the risk from misplays and unduly weakens killers on a fundamental level.
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Most people I've seen seem to agree that healthy hook grabs shouldn't be a thing, simply because they promote a weird, unintuitive and frankly boring playstyle of playing the 'grab game'. Even putting latency-issues aside it's just plain bad game design.
I don't remember BHVR commenting on hook-grabs at all.
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Oh right, because removing an interaction would be such a good idea ... ?
My only complain for the grabs is how many times they get cancelled.
I would make absolutely no sense to disable healthy grabs. A simple hit is easier, faster and guaranteed.
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Injured grabs should be possible, after all the whole point of being injured is being vulnerable. Healthy grabs should be removed.
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Removing healthy hook grabs would improve the health of the game overall. I think they should test it on the next PTB.
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Hook grabs introduce a fun mindgame but only when the killer is camping and do nothing besides helping them do so, they should be removed
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I'd be into replacing them with something less dependent on latency but functionally stays the same with keeping unhooking survivors extra vulnerable. It punished people for making dumb grabs but I don't like how latency and the weird mind game plays out
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Being in good health doesn't give you an aura of invincibility to be grabbed. Especially if you're being grabbed by a crazed killer driven by an unknowable cosmic horror.
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After Dead Hard got a nerf, hook grabs should go.
One of the main arguments about why Dead Hard was bad was that it led to killers just running right behind survivors for extended periods of time. Killers argued it didn't feel right.
Same principle should be applied to hook grabs. Standing there playing a guessing game with the killer looks and feels stupid.
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"killer mains in favour of removing them"
Right, "killer" mains.
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Of course anyone who disagrees w me and says they main the same role as me is lying, because it's impossible to disagree with me unless you main the opposite role
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I think healthy hook grabs should be removed.
90% of my hours are on Killer.
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Believe it or not, not everyone cares about winning more than having a healthy game.
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I'm pretty sure they're okay with it. I remember when the hit cooldown was reduced last year, one of them mentioned they ensured there was still a small window of time to do a hook trade while avoiding a grab. So they acknowledged hook grabs but basically said they intend for us to time ourselves around them.
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They could just disable hook grabs until all the gens are powered. Removing grabs would make endgame saves even more easy and uncounterable
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"...mostly punishes uncoordenated team play, aka, solo q."
This is exactly why we need them.
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I love it when you unhook someone successfully and than the killer grabs you and hooks you on the same hook you just cleared. Guess that's a gaming chair issue.
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I like this idea. Hook grabs should be hook trades unless you're in EGC - when most people are fine with camping.
As it stands, camping a hook usually guarantees a killer a 2k. 3-4k if the survivors play altruistically.
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Regarding this argument, they could also make unhooking uncancelble. I mean the interaction looks pretty unintended and weird…. They guy on the hook gets hit by the entity like 23233 times but hey “no problem I’m still fine”
But this would solve the problem also.
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A crazed killer that's apparently just standing there not moving or doing anything to fit his description, they definitely need removed or changed to only injured grabs so we can end these boring ass games where a killer gets salty over a pallet stun and throws the whole game to stand in front of someone, it's no fun to rush gens with no interaction or chase because the killer sucks so bad he has to stand there and secure one while the other survivors get an m1 simulator the rest of the trial
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The outlier grab is the vault grab which is the only injured only grab, any other grab is performed regardless of survivor state.
So for consistency's sake all grabs shoild be performable at any given time.
But for survivors who dont wanna hear it theres always the IdentityV alternative of just making survivors exposed during all actions....
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I honestly don't see the problem with hook grabs. I mean unhooking shouldn't be a freebie because you decided that doing it in front of the killer was a great idea, or that you shouldn't be punished for it.
I can't even begin to imagine the number of hook-rushing that would happen if it was removed.
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If the unhooked survivor lost collision for a bit after unhook I'd be more for it being removed.
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Players who think hook grabs on healthy survivors are good for the game need to give their heads a shake.
It has been an issue for a long time.
And without fail, every time this topic is brought up several commenters say 'but we can't allow survivors to freely unhook!' They are not. Is it really hard to understand? That survivor who is making the unhook next to the killer is losing a health state. How in the world is that a free save?
I truly think the posters who oppose such a change (removing hook grabs on healthy survivors) are the players who get a hook and then never leave that first hook. Can't let those survivors get their 'free saves,' right?
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By opposition to what? Unhealthy ones?
There is no point grabbing when a survivor can go down in one simple hit.
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No. A single healthy survivor shouldn't be able to remove all of the killers pressure/prevent someone from going to the next hook state when the killer is present / without a double save
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it shouldnt be a thing anymore
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as a killer main who happens to be a 12 hook andy, I care about enjoyment of the game overall my self. I don't think healthy hook grabs should be a thing. However I also think survivors fresh off the hook should have zero collision during their endurance. Removing collision off a hook save removes the ability to tunnel, but it also removes their ability to body block.
It would also be nice if the hooks could act like the executioners cages and move but that won't ever happen.
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Tbh the fun of the killer matters too, but hook grabs are just clunky and should go.
Again, people wouldn't stress out over denying killers kills so much if killers were rewarded for hooks more than sacrifices.
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I'd say hook grabs are fine if they fix the problem that occurs when a killer camps vs soloq players.
The counterplay for killers trying to go for the grab is sending 2 survivor to the hook and have one body block for the one saving. The problem is with soloq the team doesn't even know if the killer is camping nor has the aura reading to send 2 players for the save. If they made it so survivors got kindred but replaced the killers aura reading with an icon in the HUD then that would fix the issue that hooks grabs have in soloq.
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This isnt directed towards you specifically because I know you're saying they shouldn't be a thing but for those arguing "fun" because it's so much fun to just stand there for an entire match camping right? Bringing the fun factor into this Convo is a joke when it comes to camping, they're ruining the game for everyone else involved and losing if the survs actually do gens and we're calling that fun now? No wonder the player count is in the 29,000s I can't imagine why people wouldn't be having fun playing the game
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Yeah. I don’t understand the logic with this entire post. What is the point of a grab mechanic if it can only work on injured survivors? Why would a killer want to waste all those extra animation and recovery frames for a grab, if they only work on injured survivors, at which point a quick m1 attack would be more efficient?
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Yeah, I agree. I have tons of time in killer, and I think they're unhealthy. Mostly because they are so inconsistent (due to lag).
As a killer, I have many cancelled that shouldn't be, and get some that I shouldn't. On the survivor side, same deal.
It's just too potentially impactful a play to be so wonky, plus it leads to boring standoffs.
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