I don't trust behaviour's map designers
Garden of joy is causing PTSD to killer players. The reworked maps are favored towards survivors. I don't trust them reworking the farm maps. I also do not trust their design on the new upcoming sci-fi map.
They need to find new map designers that knows this games ins and outs and that they can balance maps for both killer and survivors instead of favoring 1 side of the coin.
I feel bad for killer players. I watch my friends play killer if I have a 30 minute break at my job and they always suffer. The only time I see them having fun is when they play on maps such as coal tower.
Comments
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It is as if you were saying skill is only related to the maps themselves and nothing else matters.
Garden of Joy is like Ormond: you need to decide if you want to focus on the gen in the house or let it go. I mean the main buildings not the shack.
Size definitely matters: If GoJ is reworked similarly to Eyrie it will be match better.
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I think the filler tile philosophy needs to be:
Low wall=somewhat unsafe but playable
High wall=safer but LOS blocks to compensate
Too many filler tiles have low walls or no walls at all like Shattered Borgo, but they're also 100% safe. It can't be both and be balanced.
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Honestly I think Badham fillers are the sweet spot all maps should aim for with their own filler tiles. Unfortunately, the rest of Badham is a goddamn nightmare
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While i doubt that reworked maps favor survivors, they reduced good stealth gameplay. On several maps, where you could juke the killer before, there are now few los-blockers, and even if there are, there is nowhere to go. I would like to change that and give more stealth options, even if that means less pallets. But a lot of killers will just not like that.
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Yeah, those fillers are in a good spot. Eyrie and Borgo are the worst offenders of the recent maps. They need to stop putting giant square and rectangular structures with waist high walls on the maps. You can hold W around one of those for 10-20 seconds against half the roster, and the collision zone extends so far vertically that a ranged killer can't throw over them in many instances. I think my record is 40 seconds around a random stone slab on Borgo against a Trickster.
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Just reading "Garden of Joy" makes me want to leave for 4 minutes for a coffee break, and I'm not even playing anymore.
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Most of the pallets in DBD now are "safe". This is not the same as having pallets that can be mind gamed (such as both of the pallet car loops around Badham).
Once upon a time we had plentiful pallets and they were "unsafe". A perfect example was one loop from the old haddonfield that was a tree+ garbage can+ pallet. If you didn't get the stun you were getting a hit. The rock pallet in the corner of main on dead dog is a similar style of pallet to the old "unsafe" pallets but the loop was much shorter so the killer had a near guaranteed hit if you did not get the stun.
Map design needs to be something like :
- For every god pallet there is one unsafe pallet that is almost completely unusable; do not add extra "unsafe" pallet spawns but instead replace some safe pallet loops with unsafe pallets. There should never be "lots" of god pallets (looking at you "the game"). Just pause to think for a minute if that map had like 80% unsafe pallets. Note : the car pallet loops around badham are "mindgamable" pallets not "unsafe". Almost every pallet on a map should be mindgamable if you want M1 killers to be viable.
- All maps should be ~9000m² or they should not be playable by killers without mobility powers.
- All maps need to have multiple viable 3 gen locations. The whole : 3 gens on one side +middle gen+ 3 gens on the other side needs to go away. Wreckers yard is a perfect example of a fair map.
- Main buildings need to not have broken time wasting events. Ironworks is a perfect example of how to make a fair main building. The breakable wall upstairs works exactly once and that loop is "done". The main building loop only works in one direction. There are NOT multiple vault windows out of the main building (reading that sentence should tell you Garden of Joy is trash). If the same person that made the Ironworks rework made the Badham rework then there would be a breakable "fence" wall next to the vault on the main building (on the inside wall not the outer wall).
- If you want to make large maps work then killers should be able to open up passages that survivors cannot use. The bathroom passage in Mid is a perfect example. Remove the corridor and make it an instant teleport only for the killer from one doorway to the other. Maybe you could add a survivor perk that lets them use such a door way once per game with some severe limitation - but only if they are injured and using the door gives them the broken status for the rest of the game.
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you're hired
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I had high hopes for the Red Forest reworks. A shame that they once again did not solve the existing issues but instead created new issues on top. Not only is Mother's Dwelling still huge, it also has some horrible collisions as well to screw some killers. There are a lot of LoS blockers and also lots of filler pallets there as well. Temple of Purgation has some similar issues.
Garden of Misery is probably the worst map the devs created in the last 2 years. I'd argue it's even worse than Cowshed (although a bit harder to use to its max potential). It seems like all new maps they add have to have lots of interconnecting pallets, at least a few god pallets and a few time waster loops, that cannot be disarmed or mind gamed.
Cowshed is already a horribly unbalanced map, so it probably can't get any worse but after seeing what they did with Mother's Dwelling I'm not even sure what they actually want to achieve with these reworks. It doesn't seem like they want to fix existing issues (Gas Heaven being the exception) but try to randomly shift things around while staying close to the current layouts.
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1 I can agree with less god pallets and more pallets that can be mind game. The game map should be a perfect example of why.
2 kinda agree. Some killers just auto lose cause half the gens can't be Patrol on these big maps.
3 all maps should absolutely not have a guarantee 3 gen build into them. Your fifth point sound way better
4 The main building is fair because of all the pallets that spawn around it. The actual building itself is hot garbage on the survivor side. 1 windows on the lower level that get u nearly no distances. One window upstairs that get u some distances if they have to break the wall but immediately is offset cause u even gotta run down the stairs or fall off and stagger. It a bottom 3 main buildings...right up there with coal tower building and bargo (not that bargo need to be any stronger lol)
Post edited by solarjin1 on0 -
I’m going to take a wild guess and say maybe maps are being designed with less-experienced players in mind? I don’t know the stats but maybe the vast majority of players are a lot more casual who possibly need bigger maps, more ‘junk’ and pallets in order to not be downed instantly? Most probably don’t understand what connecting pallets are for example let alone how to use them optimally.
That being said, map variety is good so would be great to see a map or rework that has more experienced players input in mind.
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The OP is stupid, the core tennent of this game is “Pick your battles wisely.” You give the surviors the easiest gens and guard the ones that matter.”
or simply put “durr whats bestest for me to pateol…”””
If you’re allowing them to lead you down a rabbit hole, then you deserve the butt dancing at the exist gates.
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-"all maps should absolutely not have a guarantee 3 gen build into them."
The second there is no viable 3 gen the best option becomes : camp the hook and punish unhooks.
"The main building is fair because of all the pallets that spawn around it"
When you look at Ironworks vs Garden of Joy it becomes clear one has a fair setup and one does not. GoJ main building has three massively overpowered windows; the map should at most have one good window.
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My game crashes very often when someone uses a Boringo or Garden or Pain offering.
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THE NEW FRACTURED COWSHEET:
The best map designers from BHVR started fixing the map so the added 20 more save pallets in the middle, because there were only the Cowtree before. Furthermore they removed the breakeable walls in the main and turned them in windows instead.
So the new escape rate is 80%👍️
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If you can't 4k on every single map with every single Killer, I really don't see why that's the dev's fault and not a simple example of skill issue.
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I had my own screenshot showcasing exactly this, but yours is much better.
I hate the Borgo. I hate the red aesthetic that makes scratchmarks hard to see. I hate the dozens of little fiddly things everywhere that I constantly get stuck on. And I hate the million pallets that connect into each other every dang tile. I think I hate it more than The Game in regards to pallets, at least The Game isn't painful to look at.
Still not sure if I hate it more than Garden of Joy.
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Feel like I'm the lone wolf out here enjoying all the new maps and map reworks..
They're far from what I want to see in a DBD map, but they've been par for the course with respect to what we already have. Not every map should play the same way, and not every Killer should shine on every map.
Borgo is the only new map to date where I can empathize with the community's complaints, because it's just so damn painful to look at.
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Perhaps the map coordinator was empty and pulled out the person who was working on the design in 2016. Otherwise the terrible rework of Red Forest cannot be explained.
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Your expectations are unreasonable.
They will move the main building to the center of the map, and 20 safe pallets will be around it, cuz that's how BHVR designs map these days.
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Here's how you balance "the game" map - you make only killers that can ignore or instantly break pallets be able to play it.
So if survivors use an offering to go to that map and you're on Doctor then the offering is ignored. If you use a game offering as doctor it works because you chose it.
But if you're playing Nemesis, Blight, Nurse, PH, Demo, etc., then you play the match.
You do the same for all maps that are larger than 9000m². Is that map really big? Ok then killers without mobility don't play it unless they pick it.
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if only the devs played their own game
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