Why is gen rushing still being complained about?
I just don't get it. The devs literally increased the time to do the main objective of the game. I understood the complaining before the change to gen times, but now? Personally I haven't experienced a severe case of gen rush like it used to be, obviously every once in a while it'll happen but sometimes gen rush will happen, it will never not happen. Maybe it's different in different mmr ranges? As someone at a high mmr range it's always a whole bunch of people that just want to mess around and loop and not really gen rush so maybe it's different at mid to low mmr I'm not sure, but I just don't get how we can never be happy 😖. Gen rush is the least of worries right now.
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Because bad Killer players will always be bad. You can make Gens last 3 minutes each and there would be still some who would not manage to 4K every game.
They dont look for excuses in their own gameplay, it is the games fault that they lost. I mean, have you ever seen that Killer Mains say that 4K-Streaks are the sign that the game is imbalanced? Nope. But if they get a 0K in one game, THEN the game is suddenely unplayable for Killer.
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Maybe because ALL of the gen regression perk being nerfed and most of them are being killed?
you could get 40%(25%+15%) regression per hook before by just bring 2 perks,and now you have to pick 4 slow down perks and still weaker than that.
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Yeah I agree buts it's the same side for survivor aswell when it comes to excuses and bias. I personally think the game is very balanced right now. Unfortunately a lot of this forum is just bias towards one side or the other and it's effecting the future of this game.
#bring2018dbdback
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Yet survivor perks have also been murdered? For example dead hard, coh and some more non recent changes (like ds change awhile ago). It all balances each other out. Its not like the devs are only focused on nurfing killer perks or only nurfing survivor perks.. the are murdering all of them.
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LOL
I don't know you notice or not there are no "some more".
killer literary got nerf every single patch,and survivor?
Survivor got the first nerfed in freaking 9 mounths,and it become murdering all of them?
Open your eyes, read the patch note.
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Because M1 killers have literally nothing and rely solely on tunneling the weakest person out with multiple game delay perks. Most maps are horrendously unbalanced if you don't have strong anti-loop capability, the majority of powerful gen regression perks were gutted and there was very little compensation.
People are going to screetch SkIlL IsSuE all day long but notice how they interestingly never post their insane 500 Wraith/Legion/Pig winstreaks or tournament placements.
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It’s so funny you started this thread when we got a new broken genrush perk for survivor in the next PTB :)
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Of course it is the same as Survivor. I have seen Survivors who did not know if they played DBD or Minecraft and did not realize that it was their fault that they lost.
However, the thing is that as Survivor you are only 25% of the team and not 100% like when playing Killer. So it can indeed happen as Survivor that you might lose because things are out of your control (if that 3 hour Meg dropped all the Pallets and you have only deadzones left for example). But this should not mean that Survivors are not equally at fault when it comes to "Blame everything except themselves".
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The gen kick meta was a big reason imo. There were a bunch of stacking perks that shredded gens. Without them killers are still finding their footing. Add to that survivors were forced to adapt and focus harder on gens because of the gen kick meta.
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Yet pop goes the weasel just got 2x better? Like I said earlier. Everything balances itself out. Good survivor buff means good killer buff (for perks) vise versa
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They increased the base gen time to 90 seconds, but gens can be done as fast as 60 seconds or as long as 100 seconds. That's a 40 second swing which shouldn't be a thing. There is definitely a sweet spot where the game generally feels good for both sides and both sides can get in a nice game. When the game pace is pushed as fast as it can be it even becomes hard to like playing survivor because I don't have enough time to get points and it doesn't take all 4 to push a game that hard either.
As a killer I can often feel super limited in who I can mentally afford to play. I am a decent player, but not the greatest and you never know what kind of game you're gonna have. Before I started dodging toolboxes in lobbies I was at a point where I was only playing a single killer using a full gen regression build. Playing any killer that didn't have mobility and built in time wasting in addition to gen regression was just a crapshoot. Some games I'd get to play a somewhat normal game and other times I basically might as well have not played as I didn't have enough time to really pressure the game. Once I started dodging toolboxes I started to have games with a more consistent timing and I found I could play other killers again and stop running full gen regression because one perk or even just general strategy was enough. The game felt better and more diverse to me cause I could try new builds play a range of different killers, etc.
The game was just better on both sides for me because things were more consistent.
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-"The devs literally increased the time to do the main objective of the game. I understood the complaining before the change to gen times, but now?"
You want to hear something crazy? Gens were slower when survivors played against me before 6.1 than they are right now. You might ask how.
Before Pop got obliterated it gave a 20 second reset on generators every time I got a hook. Looking at 95% of my games if not more I got somewhere between 6-9 pops per game. In other words I changed the survivor objective from 4 minutes to 6 minutes. Why does that matter?
Good survivors can finish all the gens in under 4 minutes (the very best can do it in under 3 minutes). This really didn't change with the last year of patches but my ability to slow down generators did. Largely speaking it takes about 6 minutes for the killer to get enough hooks to win. If the game is over in 4 minutes then I have lost; I need another 2 minutes of time to achieve my win condition.
In case you haven't been here for six years the main gripe of killers during the entire lifetime of this game is : generators are completed too quickly.
The expected goal of the killer is 9 hooks. This is the "grading" system the game uses for emblems.
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Very well organized survivor teams can go through gens very quickly though, if you as killer don't get downs frequently constantly. So it can definitely feel like gens go too fast.
I do think that map design is the biggest problem here however. If BHVR continues working on maps, making them more balanced, with less overpowered loops, and not too big sizes, less people will complain about gen rush as well, because killers now will have a fairer chance at keeping up with gens.
Of course, the devs need to be careful to not make maps killer sided as well, especially by having gens too close to each other.
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Don't you think that's a little too exaggerated? Like yeah when you dive deep into it that's what you're gonna get but ur acting like the only thing a survivor does in match is do gens and the only thing a killer does is chase and hook. Time is money In dbd, every second counts and that's obvious, so there are other mechanics like people going out of there way to do archives, using perks, playing a specific style on purpose etc, all this adds time.
I like your perspective, but it's a little over the top on my opinion.
Edit: if every single survivor was a SWF organized sweat squad your point would get across to me much easier, but that's just not the case. In the end it really just evolves around the play style of the survivors you face and sometimes you have to adapt mid game to combat it. Some matches ur gonna get gen rushed no matter how you adapt, and some days you will obliterate the gen rush. There's not much else too it.
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The old pain res slash pop combo back. wellllll kinda
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The good ol days of 2021 (not the combo obv but old pop when it did max gen progression)
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The devs literally increased the time to do the main objective of the game.
- And then they nerfed gen regression perks.
- And they just gave Survivors a new genrush perk.
- And they are now forcing Killers to play slower with the anti-tunnel change. Without changing genrush.
It's almost like the +10 seconds per generator was literally nothing with the genrush meta, which the devs clearly and carefully did not change. Because they knew they were giving Killers an empty update Survivors could point at and say 'You got what you wanted!' while not actually changing anything for the catered-too Survivor mains.
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it was fine then because gen kick existed so genrushing died as long as you got there first. But now that regression is dead gen progress stays practically forever, so the faster you gain progress the more permanent progress stays. BNP does 25% in 5 sec, an effective 500% repair speed (roughly). 22.5s completed in 5 seconds. 22.5x4=90s. It takes 90s to completely degrade one 5s BNP. Thats excluding the extra charge, prove, other addons, other perks all that jazz. All of it put together is uninteractive and unfair for the killer, because being able to complete a gen solo in less than 30s isnt fair.
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-"Don't you think that's a little too exaggerated?"
No I don't. DBD "works" when you goof around and treat it like a party game. When people play efficiently by looping well and repairing gens with focus the killer gets stomped.
I would really like to see some equality for the killer side. Survivors have tunnel protection with free BT. Where's the killer's version : free basekit Deadlock? Don't you think the killer deserves some kind of built in slow down to prevent the loss of two generators or more in the first chase?
With the current meta I have zero tools to control generators so I go after what I can control : hooks. It's far less fun for me and I know the survivors hate it even more to be systematically deleted from the game.
-"All of it put together is uninteractive and unfair for the killer, because being able to complete a gen solo in less than 30s isnt fair."
That's a really good point with the gen regression deletion. You can't even tell when killers have three to four gen regression perks most of the time. I mean you can physically count them but they don't do what they used to do.
How would survivors react if the killer could combine Monstrous Shrine with another perk to make you lose a hook state in 30- 40 seconds? What's fair for the survivor should be fair for the killer right?
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-"Because they knew they were giving Killers an empty update Survivors could point at and say 'You got what you wanted!' while not actually changing anything for the catered-too Survivor mains."
Sadly this feels so true. By giving killers small segmented changed it didn't really add up to one nice "thing". Survivors got a free perk; that translates to 4 free perks for their team. And the killer didn't even get base kit save the best for last- they just got 2 free stacks. That's just not a fair trade.
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We're not in 6.1.0 anymore. This is not 90 seconds per gen with CoB, Overcharge, Pain Res and Eruption at their prime. They nerfed gen regression pretty much to obscurity. Pain Res is still good but considering how ridiculous the math in this case is, it's not nearly enough to really compete with more gen focused survivors.
BHVR stated some time ago that their goal is to balance around 45 seconds chases. Even in the most optimistic case this doesn't work. Let's say a killer should get 10 hooks and they get a hook every 45 seconds (basically 25 ish second chases with hooking and moving around the map) that's 450 seconds = 7 1/2 minutes. When gens can be done in 300 seconds = 5 minutes by 2 survivors (assuming they spawn on gens, don't group up, bring no items or perks for extra speed, get no skill checks and walk 15 seconds from gen to gen). All of this might be fine against some super oppressive killers like Nurse, Blight and Spirit but 2/3 of the roster have no possible way to compete in this scenario.
People that realize how ridiculous this is will not mess around but abuse it to the max. Why would you mess around with the killer, when you can instead stomp them and teabag at the exit gate? That doesn't really support your claim to be at a "high mmr range".
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Because the 10 second increase came at the same time as a complete and hard nerf to gen slowdown perks. This nullified the basekit increase. On top of that, shortly after the 10 second increase, we got a couple of perks that increase gen repair speed.
In other words, killers have less stuff to slow the match down and it shows.
Getting 8+ hooks in a match where you hook every survivor once before going for the second hook is simply impossible unless you play against absolute noobs.
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Generators felt faster even with the increased timers post 6.1.0 because it became harder for one Survivor to run the Killer for 5 gens. Survivors had more time to mess around doing totems or opening chests and could still escape relatively easily. The first few weeks of 6.1.0 had Survivors going down in chases quickly which led a good bunch of the playerbase to realize that they couldn’t mess around and be inefficient on gens anymore.
Rather than gen rushing, Survivors just learnt to be more efficient on gens over time. Add in your gen rush perks + toolboxes for some cases and Killers have the common scenario of losing 2-3 gens after the first chase.
Toolboxes and gen rush perks alone weren’t the sole reason for gens flying by quickly, Survivors just stopped giving themselves side quests.
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1 new base mechanic that was a perk before, not even weakened > some small number tweaks.
And the perks of 6.1 are gutted by now.
I think killers are maybe rightfully annoyed that only survivors get the benefit of new mechanics. Even the 2.5% (1.8 charges) bonus to kicks doesnt feel special because survivor or killer interactions werent changed by this. Survivors might as well forget it exists.
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pretty clear survivors desperately need a second critical victory objective besides just slamming gens.
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Yeah it would be really great if they added something to totems.
Like, a killer perk that could incentivize the survivors to break the totem instead of doing gens.
Or maybe a survivor perk that allows them to interact with a totem to provide a short range buff.
That sounds pretty cool. It would really be neat if there were perks like that to encourage survivors to do totems.
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You misunderstand, I mean survivors need to have more than one objective that they are required to complete to win the game / power the exit gates or whatever, specifically because slamming gens makes the game incredibly binary, either your team brings genrush and ends the game in 5 minutes or less or your team is full of potatoes who never do gens and you get 3k-4k
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-"And the perks of 6.1 are gutted by now."
Pop is not buffed until it does more than it did before and that's likely never going to happen. I would settle for the killer kicking a generator taking of 7% of the total progress.
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Even something as boring as : NOED is base kit would go a long way to change the game.
Rushed the gens and didn't break the totems? Oops!
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