http://dbd.game/killswitch
Why are people acting like Scavenger is OP??
This is literally blood rush and Hyperfocus all over again. This perk is the equivalent to built to last and next to no one will run this. It’s RNG dependent and a perk that 95% of the playerbase will not find enjoyable. I won’t name and shame but there are multiple streamers who are already crying for a nerf for this perk with extremely limited actual gameplay. This just leads to group think and everyone saying “yeah you know what scavenger is OP, pls nerf BHVR”
Comments
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I don't think it is OP, I think it just highlights that the strongest toolboxes themselves (which can be used with this perk) are OP. If you run this with a Commodious and double charge addons, the time saved on gens is going to be very significant. But if you run it with a weaker toolbox and/or one with no addons, it's hardly worth worrying about at all.
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Because every single chapter there has to be at least one perk that everybody cries about, saying it will be OP and ruin the game and then 1 month after it's released nobody talks about it anymore.
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It's exactly like Hyperfocus all over again. A perk that most people aren't going to run, but that is going to be far too strong when it is run because of what it does.
Toolboxes are already too strong, that's a pretty simple fact about DBD right now. The ability to double your toolbox, not even needing to stop and hop in a locker like BtL to do it, is very strong.
The difference is that Hyperfocus has a simple fix (it not activating while toolboxes are used) and this perk kinda doesn't. I don't know how you make Scavenger balanced, without targeting the root of the problem- but an overhaul for toolboxes is gonna take a while so the problem's gonna persist until then.
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otz broke down the math, perk is op especially when paired with built to last. you cant argue with math.
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I disagree that Scavenger is OP. If it were then BTL would be used far more commonly than it is now. Scavenger will save 12 seconds overall over two gens in comparison to using BTL on a Commodious with double charge add-ons but comes with the chance that you might not get 6 great skill checks, it's hard countered by Franklin's, and isn't as on demand as BTL.
It's a good perk but it's not OP at all. The new Deja Vu might turn out to be better with the auras and repair speed bonus now sticking around indefinitely.
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Happens every chapter. Freak out over a perk and once release very few actually play it - you'll see some trying the new perks with different load outs during first week before they return to their normal load out. Usually the perk requires a specific build and majority of players aren't about to replace one of their go to perks let alone do an entire build. Not only would the new perk need to be better than one of their current perks but it usually takes some nerfs to their current perks to make them switch to different perks.
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It's only good for those players that can hit multiple greats
But getting them is what makes this perk "balanced"
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Blood Rush is a very situational perk.
Hyperfocus kind of requires a specific build to make work, though supposedly if you can raise your fps it makes hitting greats easier.
Scavenger is not that situational and by contrast to Hyperfocus doesn't require a specific build to make work. It basically doubles any toolbox you bring into the match and unlike Built to Last does not require you waste time in a locker. Sure you have to hit 4 greats to recharge your toolbox, but you do not have to hit them in a row.
Honestly the perk's problem really boils down to toolboxes rather than the perk itself. Because no one would really bat an eye about this perk recharging a brown addonless toolbox.
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This is like hyper focus where yes, hyperocus and a very good toolbox is very strong. So is a very good toolbox and prove or a very good toolbox and built to last and I bet savenger and a very good toolbox will be very strong also. What makes these builds strong is that they involve very good items and people, unitentionally, play more efficently on gens in an attempt to maximise the value of these perks without realising that that has more of an effect than the perk itself.
I wouldn't even think this is better than hyperfocus with a toolbox because it requires you to hit 4 skill checks without a toolbox which is inconsistent as best while with hyperfocus the toolboxeses shore up the perk's inconsistenties by increasing the skillcheck chance and in the hands of 99% of players it's probably worse than built to last because of this, and lets be fair here most people complaining aren't at the skill range where this would be better. My bets for most likely situation is this will be released, people will play "scavenger builds" and think it's really good, realise the toolboxes are what makes it strong and leave it.
That is not to say I dislike the perk, I love perks that reward great skill checks as they make gens more fun however this won't be as bad as some people say.
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BTL requires you to waste time, scavenger doesn't. Also I believe I remember the entire survivor community collectively frothing at the mouth when gen speeds were increased by 10 seconds, so saying "12 seconds saved no big deal" is hilariously hypocritical.
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Biased view. He gets paid for clicks on his videos so of course he is melodramatic about every little thing.
Its another trash perk along with a long list of "OP PERKS" that certain people like to clamor is going to break the game. Its too situational and niche to ever be run all the time no matter if drama queens want to get on the forums and scream otherwise.
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But at least make em killer side perks not survs!
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Wow, my very own @Pulsar moment when I get accused of being a survivor main. I'm honored. This is like a coming of age moment.
That would be hypocritical only if I (a) considered myself as part of the survivor community instead of actually being someone who plays both sides and (b) had actually complained about the 10 seconds which I definitely didn't.
It's understandable you have no idea of my posting history as you have less than 100 posts but rather than doing a low brow 'hurr hurr survivor main' us v them post a logical argument would be more constructive.
For example, the 12 seconds is spread between 2 gens. If Scavenger is going to be so OP and just crush Killers why is BTL not played more? Are you seriously trying to say that an average of six seconds saved on two gens by one survivor is going to be overwhelming in comparison to BTL?
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Otz created a clickbait fearmongering video. He totally ignored that there is already a perk that exists in the game that repairs you toolboxes, Built to Last, and it does it MORE THAN ONCE! It is already in game and it is already proven to NOT be overpowered.
SO, he just wants toolboxes nerfed and is hoping that if he lies to his audience about a new perk he can rile the fanatics up...
My advice, stop being a fanatic and start thinking things through for yourselves.
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He went over BTL on stream yesterday.
A toolbox that shaves ~20 seconds, BTL takes 12 seconds to recharge and then you get another ~20 seconds. Net 8 seconds.
If you use BTL again, you waste 12 seconds for ~12 seconds. Net 0 seconds.
If you use BTL again, you waste 12 seconds for ~8 seconds. Net loss of 4 seconds.
Scavenger does not require you to waste time in a locker to recharge the 20 second saving toolbox. You just double the value of whatever toolbox you are carrying at no cost.
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I agree and it's starting to get embarrassing. Some players are so bored they are creating drama by hyping up certain perks that 95% of casual players will not even be aware of, nor care about using. I think they do this to hype themselves and others up for the chapter.
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he didnt ignore it at all, he even showed that they can be paired them together.
I started talking about this before I even watched any creator's stuff. Get this I actually played the PTB my self. I only linked the video because he has the math and the testing. all you have is half baked insults and clear ignorance of the topic.
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Why would I want to use BTL on a toolbox more than once? Unless I'm hiding to avoid a Killer or trying to break a heavily contested 3 gen I'm recharging it once and done. Somebody with knowledge of how much time it saves isn't going to recharge it more than once. I like Otz but he made the same dire predictions about Hyperfocus if I remember correctly. He's fun to watch and a great player but he was wrong about Hyperfocus and he's wrong now.
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I think its hilarious that people to this date consider hyperfocus to not be good, the only thing that makes it not meta is that people are incredibly bad at the game and cannot hit skillchecks, id say release scavenger and made for this and see if they are problematic, imo scavenger won't be problematic because as previously stated somehow people are that bad they cannot hit 4 great skillcheck which is baffling, and made for this, I do think that perk is incredibly strong but Id preffer if it was released as it is as people can actually see the effects it can have in order to have evidence on how probleatic it could be.
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That's just the math he shown on screen, because his chat was bringing up that BLT can be used more than once.
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made for this just needs to not stack with anything else and it will be annoying but fair.
scavenger needs an entire rework.
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Except I never once referred to you as a survivor main, try checking your ego at the door.
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I don't think that would solve the issue. I think buffing lower-tier killers to be faster/improve their powers would change that. Made For This is really not the threat it's being made out to be.
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It's another episode of "saving 30-40 seconds on a gen is actually fine and not that strong, regression taking off more than 7.2 seconds? That's kinda wild and needs nerfs"
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We definitely do not need to buff killers speeds. Which should go to show that even though I main killer, I don't want to be OP I want the game to be fair. For everyone playing.
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Built to Last has been in game for a very long time and already does what everyone is afraid of. Built to Last is actually even better at doing this, because it is 100% reliable. Built to Last also works great paired with other locker perks like Inner Healing, or this build, here:
Built to Last, Hyperfocus, Stake Out, Fast Track
Now, if that build right there is already in game. Already does what people are scared of, yet it is already proven to not be OP, then I am 100% justified in saying that Scavenger is not going to be OP. It is not going to cause a problem.
With scavenger you have to rely on luck to get skill checks, and only after you get that lucky skill check do you even have a chance to get a great skill check. That isn't a better perk, clearly, not even close to being as reliable.
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If that's true, why did you mention the survivor community, mention the blowback against the 10 second gen increase (of which 50 additional seconds over 5 gens is more significant than 12 seconds less over 2 gens) and refer to me as hypocritical? Without assuming the first two points your entire point in the post is non-sensical.
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Did you not consider for a second that maybe I wasn't referring to you specifically but the community as a whole? Maybe I need to work on my syntax or something because when I don't have a specific target I tend to keep things pretty general.
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Okay, that makes sense. In my opinion, what the math argument is lacking is that a white room ideal situation isn't going to be reflective of reality and, if it were that impactful, then I would expect to see BTL being picked far more often than it actually is.
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The point of Otz doing the math was to show the chat why BLT is weaker than Scavenger, because Scavenger doesn't require wasting time in a locker to recharge the toolbox effectively allowing you to waste 0 time.
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No problem. Misunderstandings happen.
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No the combo is scavenger, built to last and then whatever else you want. Scavenger can give you 2 full commodius toolboxes with their add-ons without even needing to get off a gen. You act like hitting 4 great skill checks is hard. news flash it isn't unless you're new to the game.
BTL can trigger iron maiden, BTL can leave you vulnerable to dredge. BTL requires you to waste time in a locker. BTL is strong yes, but it has downsides.
Scavenger has zero downsides and anyone with more than 60 hours in the game should be able to hit atleast 4 great skill checks agame since when you miss a skill check your tokens do not reset like hyper focus.
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That makes sense. Quantitatively it is stronger but qualitatively I think BTL is stronger for SWFs since it can recharge medkits, etc that your teammates brought in. Scavenger is a good perk but I don't see it as OP. People could run both BTL and Scavenger but one Killer with Franklin's will hurt bad. We'll see how it plays out in actual practice but I think the new Deja Vu will be more impactful overall.
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The thing with perks like Scavenger, Built to last, streetwise its not necessarily the perks that are broken, its the toolboxes. Toolboxes shouldn't increase repair speed, they should do something else like stop gens regressing beyond a certain point or make skillcheck misses do less damage or repairs are silent, stuff like that.
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Mate, he posted the math and real-life results in his video. How is that melodramatic - the figures speak for themselves.
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You don't even have to name and shame. It's the same content creators every time. And they have a pretty poor track record of predicting which perks will be meta and/or OP.
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But hey, it got the content creators plenty of view$ in the meantime, so they have no reason to stop the fearmongering every chapter
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Streamer hivemind moment. I think Made for This is much more problematic than Scavenger.
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A brown toolbox save 5second. If the perk only save you an extra 5sec. Its a really bad perk.
Commodious with double charges, however.
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this tbh. made for this will more consistently get value than scavenger and i think the scavenger hating (for lack of a better word) is supremely overturned, i don't like perks that do gens faster either but i think everyone needs to take some deep breaths on this one
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Yeah he posted the number for hyperfocus as well. The figures spoke for themselves and now no one uses it.
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BTL and Scavenger do not scale each other up internally, so it's not 'especially' egregious with BTL.
That said...
One of the reasons why there's often a firestorm over new survivor perks that ultimately end up with a sub-1% pickrate is that a lot of killers have trouble understanding the game outside of what is readily visible on HUD or in FoV. This leads to conditional perks very quickly being declared 'game breakingly OP' because they overlook the underlying conditions.
Like killers complaining about CoH healing too fast without incorporating the 14+ seconds of set-up time.
That said, the problem with Scavenger, and the reason I actually agree with the killer main take on this perk this time, is that Scavenger is NOT a conditional perk. All it requires is a fat toolbox, and you're practically guaranteed the full breadth of its extensive value. This is not a 'stars align' value like with DS, this is practically guaranteed, so it's fairer to take it at face value.
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Post edited by Moonras2 on0
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I don't read the whole thread so I apologize if someone already mentioned this. Keep in mind this is from my own experience I can't speak for everyone's setup. I did actually test it one day though.
If you just set the desktop refresh rate to a higher fps, don't even have to mess with it in game settings, it drastically reduces the input lag on great skill checks. My tv goes up to 120 so I cant speak beyond that but switching between 60 and 120 is very noticeable.
It's not just on skill checks though. It also makes killers like huntress, nurse, and trickster feel way easier to control.
It's weird because visually it still looks 60 and the framerate counter still shows 60 but the input lag from 60 basically disappears. It may be even better on higher refresh displays.
Again, this is just from my own testing but I don't know why it wouldnt be the same across the board. However, trying this on my brothers Xbox series x/s didn't show any change.
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So you want them to be completely useless.
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And? My point remains the same. Unless your running some kind of gen-jockey build its trash. Sorry it hurts your feelings that I think Otz is intentionally a drama queen.
😕
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I believe in our lord and saviour Franklin's Demise 🙏🏻
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indeed my friend.
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2 toolboxes for the cost of 1 perk without any further restrictions is completely fair and definitely not broken at all. Especially in a time where gen defense is pretty weak and survivors rush gens more than ever (understandably but you my point).
Seriously, this is stupid. It's not some incredible set up and dedicated builds as well as a SWF and the killer's cooperation that's necessary to make this perk shine. You bring it and you get a second toolbox. That's it. Built to Last is already a strong perk but it won't increase your time efficiency in that same way because it requires you to wait in a locker.
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The issue is that Hyperfocus + Stake Out + Busted Toolbox already has the potential of being unfairly strong. Scavenger just reduces the RNG some and buffs the genrush build overall which is questionable because people already hate genrush, why buff it?
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