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Survivors getting upset at tunneling while gen rushing.
If I'm on first hook at a little over a minute and 2-3 gens are already done, yeah I'm gonna tunnel. If you're going to rush your objective I'm going to rush mine as well. Stop getting upset at tunneling when gens pop so fast and there's no way to pressure them early game. There's a reason Killers feel the need to tunnel and camp.
Comments
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I feel like there's slightly more nuance than that.
I see plenty of Killers immediately tunnel off of first hook with zero gens done. Of course, some will excuse that by saying that the Survivors could be gen rushing.
One does not cause the other, I'm afraid. Not everything is the Survivors fault.
In most of your games, losing a couple of gens early on is completely fine. The Killer is the weakest at the beginning of the trial
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One does cause the other though, if gens are flying by I HAVE to get someone out of the game as quickly as possible or I just lose. 2 gens within the first minute is still a huge issue. I get the mentality of "Only the last gen matters" but even still, I feel like I almost have to run Corrupt Intervention at this point.
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Can i get upset if the killer tunnels me at 5 gens with lethal pursuer?
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One does not ALWAYS cause the other.
You said, "There's a reason Killers feel the need to tunnel and camp." You did not say, "I need to tunnel after I'm down to 1 gen in 3 minutes."
Also, you shouldn't lose 3 gens in a minute. That's a you issue. Have you tried running some gen regression perks? I quite like PR, it's 25% of total gen progress, which can be crippling to Survivors.
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I don't have Pain Res, haven't unlocked the Artist. And all the other regression perks are absolutely useless, Jolt is the only usable one but that only works with M1 killers.
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Absolutely.
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HARDCORE tunneling at FIVE gens vs PROVOKED tunneling - these are seperate things. Treat them as such.
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Not really. The reasons for a 'provoked' tunnel vary from actually bringing toolboxes to 'having a perk' and 'finishing a gen'.
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They are not.
I have seen plenty of people say that they were provoked because they thought it was a SWF.
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Survivors shouldn't be mad at that point. you need someone out
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They are not.
By tunneling you reorient yourself to comp MMR.
You play to win when tunneling. No ifs, ands, or buts. Your goal is maximum time-efficiency. (Which tunneling is, effectively done).
Killer has the unique choice of choosing casual MMR by self-enforcement of going for 12 Hook games to reorient their MMR such that the game assumes an “average” 2K2E is when the Killer has imposed their largest handicap while still maintaining some semblance of progression. (Not that it’s reinforced).
Few people understand that if you camp/tunnel you are literally forcing your MMR into comp queue. It doesn’t matter the reason, especially if MMR is still just Kill-based matchmaking.
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Well then if you are going with this way, then you should not complain when your mmr rise and reward you with players better than you. Because you are asking for it.
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You are completely discounting the power level between killers.
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What a lot of less experienced killers don’t realize is that the so called “gen rush” is often their own doing. The last few days or so I have won substantially more games than I typically do in solo. It was always due to killers mindlessly tunneling and paying zero attention to what is going on around them. I’d be at 80% on a gen and the killer would literally just run by me in order to tunnel. No effort to even force me off. Of course the gens are going to fly when there is zero pressure on anyone else. This may not apply to you specifically but there are A LOT of killers like this who have zero situational awareness or game sense. Players like this aren’t being gen rushed. They’re just bad at the game.
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And survivors do their objectives as quickly as possible because they know it's very likely they'll get tunneled out once they get caught, it's literally the chicken and the egg.
Also, losing a couple gens early is very normal and absolutely does not dictate how the game will play out, I really don't understand why some killers freak out, but if you're that scared you can always equip Corrupt.
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Yeah I had a game this morning where all 4 of us escaped - the Huntress was deadset on tunnelling this Nea but it was for nothing. The Nea was crazy good at loops. No one had toolboxes or gen perks. I even cleansed a couple totems. Otherwise, nobody had anything else to do except sit on gens.
On the flipside, I ran a Trapper for the first 2 gens in another game and he had a 4k at 1 gen left without tunnelling. He had everyone on their toes the whole game and played smart. He got me on second hook because of his habit of constantly kicking pallets as soon as they were downed, creating dead zones. I could see it all with WoO. He left one pallet down in one area after chasing someone else, and I automatically assumed he must have forgotten to kick it. But nope, he left it on purpose with a trap on the opposite side. Smart man knew survivors would run for the one pallet left when caught in that otherwise dead zone. It was well played.
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If I see a surv after he was just unhooked he's getting smacked again, no matter how many gens are done. Same with healing under the hook. I simply don't care - it's not my problem. I don't give free pass to anyone other than obvious babies.
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There’s a happy medium to this though. The game is not balanced around two hooking everyone first and foremost. You actively have to forgive survivor mistakes and hinder your own performance to make this a reality. Especially with perks like resilience and adrenaline seeing so much use- you leave survivors injured and try and spread hooks you will be punished massively at this moment in time. This is a step away from smurfing IMO.
Killers should be trying to kill survivors. In as sporting a way as possible. But 12 hook games are not how the game is balanced. More fun for survivors perhaps, but that doesn’t mean balanced.
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Because that's also factored into MMR.
The devs have stated that you have a separate MMR value for each killer. So if you play nurse and trapper with the same skill and play style, you'll still kill more survivors as nurse every time.
You'll end up with a higher MMR for nurse, and a lower MMR for trapper so it balances itself for 'S' vs 'D' tier killers.
If kills are all that matters, and you play to sweat as hard as possible for the 4k every game, the MMR system will give you higher skill opponents until you are being challenged again.
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Not 12 Hook 2-Hook staggering everything, just trying to go for 12 Hooks in general. If a Survivor misplays into me, so be it. But trying to avoid leveraging current Hook mechanics in that you go for distant generators to give Survivors room to Unhook and give yourself a target to chase that hasn't been Hooked recently. If someone is unlucky and gets found repeatedly and is sacrificed quickly, that's unfortunate. But basically try not to go out of your way to do so, even though the game heavily suggests you should.
While the game shouldn't mandate this playstyle for all 12 Hooks, consciously playing in such a manner means that your MMR is set to the point that you're matched with players where a 2K2E is more towards when you've put in the most amount of effort, and a 4K actually takes less effort if you fully leverage tunneling and camping.
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and what are survivors doing to give the killer breathing room in return? oh right nothing. They reap what they sow, at least some killers won't tunnel, but I've never seen a survivor give the killer the same treatment.
Never seen a survivor give themselves as a sacrifice, but killers will give hatch.
"treat others how you want to be treated" and all that. They want breathing room, they need to give it to the killer as well. They usually do the opposite and also BM the killer, especially at the gate.
Why would killers keep doing it if survivors just spit in their face? They wine if you try, yet mock you if you let them "have fun". Survivors are toxic to the killer no matter what. They cry and moan for you not to tunnel them but when you do? -t-bag- "gg ez baby killer".
It's long overdue that survivors step up and stop putting everything on killers while they slam gens and t-bag their way out the gates.
There needs to be "allow your opponent fun play" on both sides, not just one. Until that's agreed on nothing will change.
Post edited by MrPenguin on5 -
Survivors are “gen rushing” because ever since the healing and medkit and COH nerfs that’s all they can do to possibly escape the match (especially in solo Q) since killers have increased the tunneling and camping since those nerfs.
BHVR was really stupid to think that killers would actually try a different tactic besides tunneling and camping just because they nerfed healing, medkits and COH. All they did was gave them more of a reason to do it because they made it even easier to tunnel and camp people out. It’s all about the “most efficient and fastest” tactic to win right? So why would people give that up?
If a hunter is trying to shoot a healthy rabbit and you hobble all the rabbits and slow them down, why would the hunter then say “Oh the rabbit has been hobbled so now I’ll chase it down with a knife to give myself a bigger challenge.”? They wouldn’t. They’re just gonna keep shooting the rabbits because it’s been made even easier.
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Tbf the devs nerfed Gen regression along with healing so that killers couldn’t bloodbath survivors with gens taking forever & healing taking forever.
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The problem isn't even Gen-rushing. It's gen doing. What I mean by that is that you don't even need to have a specific build for gens to fly. Even if no one brings any perks for it, you can lose 2-3 gens by the time it takes to down a single survivor. It's enormous. And what's the best way to regain that pressure you lost as a Killer? Bingo, tunneling. Removing a survivor asap slows the game. Others will try to save them, slowing the game. That's a least 2 survivors not doing gens, which gives you breathing room.
Sure, people will always Tunnel even when not stressed by this - I mean tunneling's as hold as camping and no matter what you try to do it will still happen. That's sadly part of the core game when one side's objective is the other side's players. But I did find myself tunneling more because I sometimes don't have a choice between that and AFKing in a corner. I'd much rather get a 12 hooks game but good luck getting that against proper survivors when you're not a particularly good player, and I ain't.
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You are right that both tunneling and gen rushing can exist without the other. However, I'd argue that both are problems that enforce their respective counterparts even more.
A survivor that is sick of getting tunneled is more than likely to do anything in their power to make it impossible in the next match. It used to be achievable with second chance perks and DS but now the best you can do is end the game before you die. This puts the killer in the same position, where they find themself doing anything in their power to compete. This includes playing more efficient, which means tunneling, camping and slugging used at the right moments.
Most killers struggle even with normal gen speeds, so a group of survivors that ends the game in 4 minutes is too much for most of the roster. Keep in mind that this can be achieved without toolboxes or perks.
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I actually have had a few Survivors give me a sacrifice. Whenever a DC happens super early I will often go for points instead and let the Survivors escape. I'll hook each of them twice and then let them heal, hit them, heal, break all the pallets and stun me and whatnot, and a few times instead of escaping one or two of them will go over to a hook and point at it and let me kill them for being nice.
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Chicken or egg discussion is generally pointless as it doesn't really matter at this point tbh.
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Sure in a farm match I've seen it, pretty much the exact same scenario you're talking about where I lay off and go for points because of a DC, but I'm talking about in a normal game.
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"Stop getting upset at tunneling when gens pop so fast and there's no way to pressure them early game. There's a reason Killers feel the need to tunnel and camp."
Funny thing is sometimes gens are popping so fast that I'm genuinely surprised as I commit to chases that are actually very short. Take Clown for example. Couple of hits with the bottle and the survivor is already down.
So, I feel like doing well / making progress without losing precious time / failing chases etc. and gens are still ready. This makes me angrier and I try to be even faster. So, when I hear someone get unhooked I immediately head there as there is a VERY high chance the unhooked individual is being healed.
What happens? One runs to the left and the other to the right. If it's 2 Megs I don't even remember which one I hooked before. I'm not looking for an excuse but often I have no idea that I'm tunneling because "I'm in the game".
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“Never seen a survivor give themselves as a sacrifice, but killers will give hatch.” I helped a bubba get his adept recently. And gave a knight a kill after he had a rough game. And i have a myers a kill after he was gonna get 4outed. And i offered to give clown a kill but he carried me to the gate. I have also been offered kills as killer. Just depends on how you play
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I go for hooks, don't play Nurse Blight or Spirit, don't BM, and don't camp, tunnel, or slug bleedout. In my 5 years playing this game I've never seen it outside of farm matches.
"depends on how you play" my left butt cheek (no offense). The most I got was some props for basically being "a breath of fresh air" every 3rd blue moon. But most of the time? BM'd, stalled by notification spamming gate baggers, "gg ez". Some just leave quietly thankfully.
Thank you for being the survivor unicorn, but that's not a reflection of the community at all.
Post edited by MrPenguin on0
