Gen rush discussion.
Been seeing a lot of complaints about genrushing recently and want to get more views on it. What do you consider genrushing? When is it good tactics and when does it get to the point of being "toxic" and what might be done to "fix" it? How can you effectively counter it?
As someone who plays both roles I have mixed feelings about it. As survivor it feels like you are simply doing your objective efficiently, but as killer it puts huge pressure on you.
Any killer player will recognise the feeling, you are in an early chase, you have a would and your target just keeps reaching loops and pallets, pop, pop 2 gens done and you have 0 or maybe 1 hook state. Survs are 40% done on their objectives and you are no where near. Hell in my surv games i often notice we have 3 or 4 gens done before killer has really managed many hook states at all.
It's easy to go into overdrive at that point, tunnel or face camp for pressure and easy hits. And a lot of killer players will do this, I know I have. Especially since regression has been nerfed so hard. I often feel the need to run at least 2 regression perks to delay gens long enough.
I find the answer lies with pressure or tactical sacrifice. Know which gens to pressure, scare ppl away from, or just guide the progress where you want it. Stake out a decent 3 or 4 gen setup, and keep survs away from it, sacrifice outlying gens to make the clustered ones very dangerous to work on. Killers sometimes kneejerk into face camping, but forget they are at their most dangerous when there is only 1 or two gens left because there is only a smaller chunk of territory to worry about. Unless survs have split gens well.
As for mechanical solutions? The recent balance changes are pushing killers away from regression and therefore channeling survs towards gen rushing. A flat decrease on gen repair speeds seems an obvious answer but could cripple low mmr teams who already sturggle on gens. I've suggested an adaptive handicap before, modify gen speeds and killer move speed based on game progress and who is doing best at their objectives so killers who lose 2/gens early get some breathing space and survs who lose a player early don't feel like the game is totally helpless.
I'd love to know other ppls opinions, and their point of view as well, killer mains, surv mains or anything in between.
Comments
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There’s no such thing as “gen rushing” I don’t like when people use that term.
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Survivors doing gens. Genrushing.
Recently gen repair time from 80 seconds buffed to 90 seconds with bunch other killer buffs.
Now if killers want a gen to take 2 mins to repair that ain't happening. You know, no one wants to stay in a game for 15-20 mins except 3 gen killers who play like their lives is on the line.
Post edited by ThanksForDaily on5 -
I play both roles about equally. I agree with others that the term “gen rushing” doesn’t make any sense. Doing gens is literally the only objective that survivors have. The real problem is a lack of secondary objectives and especially the fact that coordinated SWF teams can get gens done way too quickly (especially with some busted item/add-on/perk combos). For years BHVR have seemed to be totally fine with this imbalance because people have complained about it and pointed it out endlessly on these forums, but nothing has really been done other than make gens take a little bit longer which disproportionately hurts solo q and doesn’t really address the root problem. I’ve given up hope that BHVR will ever target SWF with nerfs to make the game more fair for killers.
My other thought on this is that I see a ton of hypocrisy on this issue coming from survivor mains who don’t play killer. They complain about killers camping and tunneling to secure kills (literally the only killer objective), and then they make fun of killers who complain about survivors doing their objective. Camping and tunneling aren’t fun for survivors, but having all gens completed by the time you have your 3rd or 4th hook is equally unfun for killers.
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Gen rushing is being used when gens go by so fast killer can't keep up and yes it happens. The term gen rushing is silly since like others have said survivors really don't have other objective. I would love the idea for survivors to get secondary objective.
Game is designed so killers usually lose 1 gen in the first chase, with toolboxes 2 sometimes even 3 all depending on perks and items. Survivors also spawn straight at gens. I think this should be fixed. Survivors should spawn edge of the map and always together. Map sizes and gen placements are also an issue, because 1 killer usually can't do many things at the same time. Chase survivor, protect gens and even maybe protect person in a hook. You have to usually choose 1.
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This is probably the best honest description of "Gen rushing" is. Now the increased Gen time BHVR did would of been fine but after that they nerfed Gen Defense Perks not once but twice. While within that time we got more Gen Speed Perks and some that synergizes so well with each other that increased Gen time has been reduced to 35-40 secs.
That there is where many are complaining about and now coming in the new chapter we will see another perk to replenish tool boxes (yes they adjusted it but it will be a issue in the hands of competent Survivors).
If this tend continues we might see longer Gen times when what should be looked at are Toolboxes, BNP, and Gen speed Perks. There was a reason why so many Gen Defense Perks were being used at once.....now some Killer did a bit of overkill doing a 4 stack of Defense Perks and that was ridiculous. But I ha e gone from not using a single one to doing a two stack....
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There's no such thing as "toxic" genrushing. Survivors are only doing their objective, and balance would be very wrong if one side didn't feel pressure when the other side makes quick progress with their objective.
Also it's absolutely normal that a couple gens pop quickly, considering the killer is the weakest at the beginning. As soon as the killer finds someone there's at most 3 survivors on gens, and when the survivor is hooked there's at most 2 survivors on gens, then only 1 survivor on a gen if someone is hooked, someone is coming for the rescue and someone is being chased. And that's assuming survivors are efficient and aren't all coming to the rescue or stop doing gens and hide everytime they hear the TR.
There's a reason the first 2 gens almost always pop quickly but then it takes at least 5 minutes to do the rest. If killers had the same amount of pressure they do mid-game during the early game survivors would simply not be able to complete their objective.
Also considering after gen speed was nerfed to encourage killers to not use so much gen perks they just stacked them even more I'm going to guess killers would absolutely keep tunneling even if they didn't have a reason to anymore. (And I'm being generous, considering in most cases killers wouldn't need to tunnel if they hadn't inflated their MMR by doing it)
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In general i agree with saying that gen-rushing doesnt really exist, BUT i had a few matches in the last days, where the survivors obviously used extreme good builds to do the gens as fast as possible. They picked a map with a lot of safe pallets and all 4 of them had extremely strong toolboxes with bnp and yellow charges. And damn the gens went quick. Of course i am not the best killer and i am sure there are plenty people out there, who could maybe manage to stop them from letting these gens fly, but in the heat of the moment it just felt damn broken and impossible to handle.
A match like this is a rare thing happening to me and i read stuff like "gen rushing *****" kinda often after some rounds playing survivor. Its just stupid to blame others for doing their objective.
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Perfectly fine for a killer to stomp a group who struggles to get 1 gen done but when a group of survivors are very efficient it's a problem. 3 minute games are only fun if killers dominate.
The whole idea of removing "genrushing" for the sake of fairness sounds awful.
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Even when gen regression perks was strong killers still tunnel/camp lol, am not even gonna indulge in any more of these (gen rush topics) its quite boring and outdated now.
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The term genrush has been thrown around so much that it's lost all meaning.
I've had what I'd call genuine genrushing with beefy toolboxes, bnps, etc: loadouts tailored towards ending the game as quickly as possible with little interaction with the killer and/or beyond a typical killer's capacity to keep up.
In a typical game, the issue is that map design can make it take ages to find the first survivor, then chase, then hit, then chase, then hit them again, pick them up, and then finally hook them. It's why Nurse and Blight are top tiers: they down you so quick that they're able to keep up despite all these issues. In the case of Blight, you also zoom across the map, so even large maps become a non-issue.
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I'm a 50/50 player, so this point of view is based upon my subjective experiences from both roles.
I feel "genrushing" is not something that happens in-game, but instead is an excuse used to lessen the impact of a loss. When a loss occurs in DBD it tends to impact some more than others. Whilst some would accept they were outplayed, or maybe look back on mistakes, others would rather believe that the other side is at fault somehow. So "genrushing" became a thing; a strange word that somehow makes survivors doing the objective a bad or "toxic" thing.
A way of illustrating how this is more an idea or excuse than anything technical is to imagine a football team losing 4-2, then for the manager to say they only lost because the opposition "goal-rushed" them. Basically, because they were unable to score as many, the other side was pumping out goals quicker than they were. This is why, for me at least, this term is just an excuse.
In terms of "toxicity", this term is not toxic in any shape or form. As an excuse, it's mostly just being bitter. It's not "toxic" because it's not wanting the other to die or insulting their race, gender, or whatever. It's just either frustration or being sore about the result.
Concerning a "fix" to this, you can't. Because it's an excuse it will remain around for as long as those players want to blame someone else for any loss they take. If 4 people escaped, it won't matter how the game went if that particular killer is upset and unable to lose gracefully. They will still blame "genrushing".
One thing I will say is that the game is becoming more linear. It always was to a degree, but the effects of perks allowed for different tactics. Now, perks that help to reduce pressure from survivors efficiently doing generators are being weakened. More survivor perks are being introduced which focus on generators. It's pushing both sides into a more linear roll. There needs to be some changes, not just with perks, but also the more problematic killers. "The Skull Merchant" caused some big problems too.
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You can make a generator's repair time as long as you like, but if the survs have so much stuff that allows them to double/triple the repair speed that doesn't matter.
The real problem, and this is where the term "genrush" comes from, is that survs can gain an amount of gen speed (with 0 effort) that the killer can't keep up with, since the repair speed is 4 times the regression speed of the killer.
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If we're talking about actual play, I'm 80/20 in favor of surv, due to the fact that it's chill not because I prefer it, in fact I've always preferred to play killer.
Genrush isn't toxic, since it's ultimately the objective of survs to repair gens, isn't it? Like tunneling it is non-toxic since killing is the killer's objective.
The real problem, which comes with genrush, is that the killer can't keep up with the gens either with regression or with kills.
- Kills are slower than generators, and this is because chases usually last much longer than it takes to repair a generator. This is caused by the maps being super surv side all come with super safe pallets and loops attached to each other.
- As I said in a post I made a few days ago, I no longer see the point of using perks for gen regression, for the simple fact that they are not effective, they can't keep up with generators. I found it better to use a build without gen regression than a full gen regression build. At least, even if gens fly, I can destroy them late game with devour hope
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Starting off: The killer is not supposed to keep up with it. Survivors need to have a chance to break through and clear gens. When they don't, as we saw in the regression meta, you get extremely long and tedious matches.
That said, yes, genrushing is when you bring a stacked toolbox and/or hyperfocus build, and those need pruning.
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The killer should keep up with the generators thanks to the slowdowns for the simple fact that almost all slowdowns reward the killer for a hook, for landing a surv, in essence for playing well.
On the other hand, gen speed stuff doesn't require any type of skill from the surv (except hyperfocus, but if you do a build on purpose for that perk it can be really monstrous).
Do you understand what I mean now? If the killer is rewarded for playing well, why can the surv be rewarded for not doing #########? Why should the surv be rewarded for finding a bnp in the bloodweb? (I take the bnp as an example, but I also include the toolboxes)
The killers' red add-ons are also strong and are found in bloodwebs, but the stronger ones have stipulations. For example, Wesker's red add on that allows him to break pallets with the Ouroboros, you can break pallets but you can't vault over them, so it's a red add on but it has a clause.
Meanwhile, the bnp gives you 15% repair, then with two
extremely difficultextremely easy skill checks they reach 25%.The red syringe is ok, but still without doing anything in 16 seconds you have healed yourself one stage. Differences between surv and killer: to use the strong stuff (add on and perks) the killer must have conditions, the surv has strong stuff without conditions.
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I truly despise the term "gen rushing". i am not claiming it doesn't exist, i know it can be extremely strong if you build a 4man swf around rushing gens, but nowadays most killers i see are using the "You're Genrushing" card as a justification for hard tunneling and camping every single time.
And again, i am not talking situations like 4 Commodius BNPs or Stake-out/Hyperfocus combos or 4 resiliences, i'm referring mainly to killers being toxic and calling genrushers to people using brown addonless toolbox, or one Deja vu, or Stake-out on its own.
The weirdest situation i had was a billy that wrote "F$#" Genrusher" in my steam profile because i was using blast mine, BLAST MINE!
I understand it is not fun when 2 or 3 gens pop early but some killers really lose their minds expecting every game to be a 4k at 5 gens.
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There is no precise definition of "gen rush", but the term is often used when gens are done very quickly. A large part of the DBD community likes to blame people for wanting to play effectively and win.
Of course, what you call "gen rush" is subjective. I've met killers complaining about gen rush even though the match lasted more than 15 minutes.
For me it's a gen rush when four people with BNP and the right perks do the gens in under 4 minutes, but fortunately that doesn't happen often.
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I'm starting to feel like Gen rush doesn't hold up anymore
lack of pressure and Survivors just doing their objectives explains a lot
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If they finish the gen instead of progressing it to 90 and suddenly start repairing other generators, it's gen rushing.
why stop killers from defending the gen? they want to defend the gen just like how survivors want to play the game, lol.
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Gen rushing never becomes toxic, it is just hyper efficient play. The problem is that the game needs a more stable pacing so people can actually have fun, but currently with the way the game is design both killers and survivors can and do optimize the game to be played at pacing that isn't sustainable. The most direct fixes would be making the survivor objective more complex which introduces a baked in level of inefficiency that in theory should have limited optimization. That means hard time gates where things have to happen at a specific pace due to factors like needing to run to grab an item or do an interaction with another element. In the case of killers the most direct way to fix the level of optimization in the game is to make so strategies like tunneling and camping are useful, but toothless in terms of actually progressing the game. Like if you're really hammering a specific survivor with back to back hooks they should probably not just outright die. That would need a change to how killer gameplay works though that is a bit more complex than I can express at the moment.
You don't like when people use the term, but it is not a new term and it very much is a real thing. It has been a thing since the beginning and has in many ways gotten worse over time due to power creep.
I feel as if there is a fundamental misunderstanding of what people saying when they talk about gen rushing. I can't understand why people have the position of it isn't a real scenario that actually fairly common, but also has degrees. High optimization strats are just a thing that naturally happens in games across the board and that is to a degree okay. The situation we're in right now though is that even with BHVR having made some minor adjusts to add more base time to the survivor objective they've not really taken a big swing at modifying the objective. What they have done though is continued to add more perks to the game that essentially override the additional time increase while also leaving toolboxes for the most unchanged. Toolboxes are very strong and always have been, they aren't at their absolute peak anymore to be sure. They're still very strong and this is problematic in combination with the stacking of perks that increase gen repair speed or toolbox longevity.
Gen rushing as it is commonly understood is when the pace of game is pushed much harder and faster through survivor objective optimization than a killer can be realistically expected to keep up with. It's not just survivors doing their objective, but the speed in which is getting done. Now, most games won't really be gen rushed even the pacing is slightly higher, but when you're seeing gens are being completed 30 seconds or more faster it becomes significantly harder for the majority of killer characters to keep up. Part of the reason Trapper is as bad as he is currently has to do with the fact that by design he needs more time to set up. That's time he's not really going to have when you factor in the items, addons, and perks that make gen rushing scenarios happen.
In the past it wasn't exactly a prevalent issue due to the requirements of close coordination and generally the level player knowledge and understanding just being low cause we were all either learning or playing in very passive ways compared to how we play now. 2016/2017 DBD is almost entirely a different game compared to what we have now due how players approach to the game has changed. Generally, the skill floor has naturally increased so now bad players today are equal to decent players back then. That's baseline so now hyper optimal play is more universal and power creep has added to this. It important that people realize this and that there is degrees to how gen rushing looks and feels.
Some people will only consider a rush scenario as being a full 4 stack BNP squad running every perk possible that increases gen speed. That's a rush to be sure, but that's at the highest end of the spectrum. What's more common right now is maybe a commodius with wire spool and couple bnps with the every thing being normal-ish perk wise. That's still a rush, but it isn't an extreme rush meaning it's manageable for killers who have some way to pressure the game or move around the map faster than normal. More difficult for killers with no movement speed increases outside perks. Which to a degree is acceptable that's like the low end, but you don't want that multiple games in a row and you don't want the extreme end of spectrum at all. There needs to be real changes made to smooth out the amount swing both sides can put on the game.
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Yh toxic is probably the wrong word, perhaps i should have gone with problematic or unbalanced, like when does it become an issue to game play. I've noticed that certain killers are more vulnerable to gens getting repaired fast, like twins for example, they take a long time to end chase AND get a surv on a hook.
Perhaps modifying gen speeds depending on the killer in a given match may be an option. Traversal killers or killers who down very quickly in chase like nurse, wesker blight etc don't have to worry about gens as much as a trapper or freddy does.
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Trauma Dump?
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you don't need toolboxes and perks to pop 3 gens in the killers first chase.
All 3 survivors are on gens, it makes no sense why 1 would finish it but the others won't.
Other than that yeah I agree.
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"Gen Rushing" isn't really a thing, it's survs doing their objectives.
However, it can feel like like a relentless blitz you're helpless to stop for a few reasons:
- Massive, surv friendly maps.
- Low mobility killers with no built in slowdown.
- A combination of #1 and #2.
- Survs coordinated with toolboxes, perks, and add-ons.
- Survs don't want interaction with the killer, they just want out
1-3 are real problems, but they are game design issues, not some sort of dirty tactic. With certain killer/map combos, you really are just totally screwed unless the survs are total potatoes. And you feel that as a pressure you can't alleviate, like you're being "rushed".
#4 and #5 aren't issues if the game design issues aren't present.
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Both sides player if that matters.
Gnerushing, or whatever you want to call it, is just survivors focusing gens. Considering most view that as the only objective, it happens most of the time.
No you don't need a perk loadout and toolboxes to be doing this, you can do it base kit just fine.
Most of the killer roster can't keep up with gen speeds outside of unfun tactics. Its just survivors being efficient and killers being efficient. But its generally unfun for both sides when the other does this.
Survivors should get a second objective and with that extra time killers have we can afford to put in stronger anticamp/tunnel features in.
Basically make the survivor objective take longer to balance for more hooks, then push killers to get said hooks. Alternatively we can make killers faster to match gen speeds.
Point is gen speeds need to be balanced out to hook/kill speeds because right now gens go a lot faster unless you tunnel which no one enjoys.
I know I'm bringing in more than just exclusively genrush but if we want to talk solutions we need to consider the other side of things.
Post edited by MrPenguin on0 -
People are complaining about being genrushed when what they should be complaining about is SBMM being useless/busted and putting them against survivors way too high skilled for who they should be facing.
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there absolutely is. saying its not is like saying tunneling isnt real because the killers just getting hooks to win. If survivors bring a bunch of toolboxes and gen speed perks and addons, then the speeds are unfun and uncounterable for the killer. a 30s solo gen is possible and for sure constitutes gen rushing.
thats what I consider gen rushing at least. some idiots will just go "omg survivors doing gens!?!?!? unfair, pls nerf!"
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There is no such thing as genrushing.
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The only time I consider gen rushing real is when people are letting other survivors hit the next hook stage in order to get gens done. Everything else is just a term for losing as killer.
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I'll say genrush is when a whole team brings adrenaline and strong generator items/perks, then try to slam the gens as hard as possible, almost entirely ignore altruism, and hope that adrenaline to carry them all out lategame. BNPs are a staple here, as is Commodius toolbox and Prove Thyself.
It's not something that solos often do, usually it's just players being bad at applying pressure. SWFs can do it pretty consistently though if they have a couple players that are good at running the killer.
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To me, any tactics that may lead to victory is not toxic at all, both for survivor or killer, you do what you can to win. There is no "genrush" as there's no "tunnel", both side want to win. Period.
The only problem i have is how fast you can repair a gen but that's different from genrushing. To me, being able to fully repair a gen in 30 second or less is wrong (but also being able to fully heal someone in 7 second is wrong too )
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GENRUSHING DO EXIST!
Genrushing: When survivors, in order to complete the gens faster, ignore their friends on the hook and let them take another stage even if they are not camped.
THIS IS GENRUSH!
Now people call genrush another thing, the gen speed. That is something that is not Surv's fault. It is their main objective. Now, it is fun that completing gens fast is "efficiency", killing survivor fast is "tunnel, camp, slug! LTP!" but this is another topic.
If you are a top killer (Nurse, Blight, Spirit, Wesker, PH, Artist, Huntress and maybe Plague) OR if you have 3-4 slowdown well integrated in your build gen speed IS NOT AN ISSUE. Some killers that have built in slowdown, like pig or cenobite, can work with only 2.
But, if you are not in these situations, gen speed IS A PROBLEM INDEED!
Try to play a killer like Demogorgon, Doctor, Clown without slowdowns or maybe with 1.... maybe with perks that are good but chase oriented or detection oriented... against competent survivor you have time for 2-4 chases before the exits are open.
THIS IS AN ISSUE! Because now you have to tunnel and hope the RNG not being harsh.
This puts killer in such scenario:
OR you play a strong killer
OR you play a slowdown build
OR you tunnel and camp hard
OR in the endgame you got Tbagged, called baby killer and the survivor will say you should off yourself. This is them thanking you to not tunnel even if you were losing gen fast.
And this is not healthy for the game.
P.s.: "BUT THEY ALREADY AUGMENTED GENS FROM 80 TO 90 SECONDS!!!!" yes but they also nerfed every slowdown. Before we had 80s gens with 25% total PGTW. Now we have 90s gens with 30% actual PGTW (that is kinda equivalent to 15-20% total). Before we had 80s with thana 5-5-5-5%, now 90s gens with Thana 2-2-2-14% and so on....
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I only consider it genrushing when people actively let people go extra hook stages or even die just to do gens. Otherwise it's just doing the objective.
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When people complain about "gen rushing" it generally is not saying that the survivors shouldn't be focusing their objective as fast as they can, they should.
What they are saying is that the speed at which they are able to complete them is too fast.
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No guys! We are alzheimer granpas... there is no such problem related with gen speed.
Haven't you heard C3tooth? He said everything is fine! And if he said soo... it must be true...
P.s.: the comic was funny thou
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Without certain items and perks, gen rushing is a word bad killers use for losing.
The fact is that gen rushing isnt real without a crazy toolbox or something, gens just feel fast constantly because we dont have as much regression as we had before. one more good regression perk and the game is perfect imo.
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I guess I just genrushed. The killer tunnelled an Ada from the start of the game and she lasted til 5 gens were done (on death hook). Me and the other three had nothing to do except attempt to take aggro (no luck) and stick to gens. None of us had a toolbox or even gen perks but the gens undoubtedly flew. Not sure what else we were supposed to do while the killer was ignoring us but I guarantee someone would call it genrushing.
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Someone would. Like someone would call camp when the killer is chasing another survivor around the hook.
Still, the first is not genrush and the second is not camp.
And still, camp does exist. But is seem genrush instead does not. Odd.
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Genrushing is when a killer overcommits a chase and doesnt apply map pressure to the rest of the survivors so they can just sit on gens with no punishment.
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Do you consider less than 60 seconds overcommiting to a chase? Because it's extremely common for the killer to lose 1 or 2 gens by the time they cross the map, locate a survivor, and engage their first chase. I notice in most of my survivor matches that 2 gens pop by the time the killer gets their second hook.
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Camp is killer's fault!
Tunnel is killer's fault!
Slugging is killer's fault!
3genning is killer's fault!
AND NOW... Genrushing is killer's fault!
Ad Exxodus said, even thou this is not genrushing, generally you lose 5 gens AND THE DOORS in 2-4 chases if you do not have at least 3 slowdowns and do not use an A tier killer or better.
It is incredible how NOONE addresses these points and how the survs main keep repeating over and over the same things...
You say it is not genrushing? OK! FINE! Gen speed then. The main issue is: an optimal play for a survivor is a good play. An optimal play for a killer is a mean play!
Post edited by Zolfo16 on4 -
Actual gen rushing is pretty rare. That's the (usually 4-man) squad with most everyone running toolboxes, BNP, and one or two gen speed perks each.
What most people call 'gen rushing' is just the killer not bothering to establish pressure, or not understanding pressure in the first place. First chase the killer will have one survivor busy, and the other three have literally nothing else to do except gens. If that chase goes too long, and those 3 gens pop around the time of first hook, that's sometimes called 'gen rushing', even though the killer is just then establishing pressure with that hook.
Compound that with the easy and meta stats of tunneling and camping for maximum pressure on one survivor, and minimum pressure on the other three, means gens are fair game for 2-3 survivors for most of the game.
It feels like many killers who post on these forums have zero clue how long their chases are or how long it takes for them to locate survivors at all, and simply expect survivors to stand afk in plain view until the killer is ready to hook them after their teammate is dead.
These killers just slap on 4 slowdowns, wander aimlessly trying to find anyone, chase one survivor for 8 minutes, and then act all *surprised pikachu* when the other survivors are doing their objective. The last step is posting here complaining that 'gens are too fast' so BHVR can give them more training wheels instead of them improving at the game in literally any sense whatsoever. Bonus points for 'being max MMR because every game is just a comp level SWF'.
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Genrush vs Killrush, tunneling the objective... call it how you want, that's whats (needs to) happen when both sides playing well and want to win. It's just how the game works. Everthing else are just feelings and i totally get that. It is what it is, we aren't balancing the game nor do we put MMR in it. I think the problem is, it never feels good for the other side to get tunneled, be it gens or the surv. How do you fix that? Idk.
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Every match is a speed-run the goal is to get the new world record.
Rush gens, camp/tunnel as fast as you can.
That's the gameplay.
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Yes, the point is, both of the behaviours that are optimal are not fun because they lead to a premature end of the game, when a survivor die after 3 chases with 3 gens left to do is game over, when in 4 minutes the gates are open the game is over.
The game should not push the players into choose if they want to win or to have fun.
Because a 3v1 with 3 gen left is not fun, a 4 minutes game waiting 7 minutes in a lobby is not fun.
Those situation must be solved somehow, the point is, survivors recognize tunneling, camping, 3 genning and so on as problematic things, but gen speed is never. Is the main objectiv. Is killers fault. Is "come one, LTP!".
The mindset should change.
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I'm surprised they've not experimented with variable gen tick totals, or maybe the BNP change is a step towards that. We all know MMR is garbage so having a secondry mechanic to help smooth it would be helpful.
If gen speed was tied to the number of hook states (and bleed out timers used up to account for slugging) I think it would help. If the killer gets 3 hook states at 5 gens then the gen repair time should be going down to afford the survivors a better chance. Equally if gen pops without hook stages then the time for subsequent gens should go up. There's a wealth of data they could use to help tweak that so the net outcome should still be an average of 90s gens weighted based on match outcome. It would also help with some of the balancing between coordinated SWFs and solo queue alurist warriors who throw themselves at the killer and lead to closer to games rather than stomp fests that tend not to be as fun. Doesn't even need to be majorly impacting, there should still be benefits for playing well but it could help smooth out the negative feedback loop that ends up happening.
Of course they'd need to solve the 3 gen issue first because the above would just strengthen 60 min SM games which I'm sure most people don't want.
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The BNP aren't really been nerfed. They saved around 16 seconds before, now they save 10 seconds but the killer cannot kick those 10 seconds back and they do not count towards pop.
BNP now are more or less the same but better to counter 3genning.
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I'm not quite sure why they felt the need to bump this dead thread lol
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I’ve been playing DBD since launch, and since then the term “genrushing” has been going around so much it lost its meaning tbh.
to me it means full builds and items to make gens go by much faster. (Built to last+bnp+ streetwise for exemple) and only when 3 or more survs use it.
With that being said, I dont like it but what are survs supposed to do? Let the killer win? Its easy to snowball as killer, some more than others, so its only fair survs snowball too
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