No Base-kit Ubreakable!

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  • thrawn3054
    thrawn3054 Member Posts: 5,897
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    My point is you can't say just bring X perk to counter this thing that may happen and call it a fix. That's not good game design.

  • Huge_Bush
    Huge_Bush Member Posts: 5,085
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    You don’t have to bring in a perk though, you always have something called teammates and teamwork.

  • Coffeecrashing
    Coffeecrashing Member Posts: 3,358
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    Survivors were having builds with some combination of Flip Flop / Boil Over / Tenacity / Breakdown / Unbreakable, and they were spending entire games trying to force situations where the killer couldn’t hook a survivor.

    And during this PTB, Unbreakable would double self recovery speed, which meant that if a hook is sabotaged, then the survivor could pick themselves up before the hook respawned. And if a hook was broken due to Breakdown (or because of a sacrifice), then survivors would purposely run to the broken hook, so if the killer knocked them to the ground, then the killer couldn’t hook them.

  • C3Tooth
    C3Tooth Member Posts: 8,140
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    I dont have problem with killers using slug play because for somehow I feel the game is more tense that way. Having basekit Unbreakable only let flashlight + Tenacity / Power struggle abuse it.

    The only unnecessary slugging is slug the 3rd for 4K, or to bleed out all survivors. A button to suicide after bleeding bar dropped to 50%. And basekit Deer stalker when no survivor standing would be enough for me.

  • Rogue11
    Rogue11 Member Posts: 1,325
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    There are many situations where it gives advantages. An example is sabotaging a hook near an open exit gate. I've made altruistic plays where I'll sabo the closest hook and take a down so a teammate can escape. Under this system, it would instead be 2 free kills as the game would instantly end when the killer drops the carried teammate.

    It also prevents many clutch comeback/escape plays such as:

    Unbreakable, Tenacity, Soul Guard, Flip Flop, Boil Over, Exponential, DS, Power Struggle, Adrenaline, Deliverance, Slippery Meat, exit gate heal techs, lucky hatch spawns while slugged, etc etc.

    It *literally* does give advantages.

  • Rovend
    Rovend Member Posts: 1,047
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    Could we at least have the chance to die instantly if a surv has been dying on the floor for a certain time?

    Like, you were 2 whole minutes slugged and you have no chance to recover and the killer does not want to hook you, could we just press a button and bleed out instantly?

  • EmmaFrostyEyes
    EmmaFrostyEyes Member Posts: 685
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    You saying “just bring unbreakable” is a bad take. We are at the point where you shouldn’t need to bring perks to cover game flaws. Hate being tunneled? Just bring ds. Hate being camped? Just bring deliverance. Hate bring gen rushed immediately? Bring corrupt.

    basekit unbreakable was a terrible idea i agree with you there, but there needs to be something in the game that prevents you from just being left on the floor for 4 minutes.

    Case and point.

    they are already looking at countering face camping and i hope they can find a way to help slow down the game for killers. I personally would love a second objective like to find part or to find a glyph to unblock a gen.

  • Huge_Bush
    Huge_Bush Member Posts: 5,085
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    This isn’t a fighting game where both sides are equally equipped to be able to counter each other. When it’s 1vs1, the survivor is supposed to be at a great disadvantage. Perks and some game mechanics are meant to help alleviate some of that disadvantage. The game should not hold your hands, for either side, when you make bad plays.

    The only thing that screenshot shows is that either your team massively screwed up or the killer was way better than you. It would have taken only one person on your team to bring in Unbreakable and reset the team. It also doesn’t take any perks to spread out and get picked up in a safe location.

    I agree that getting left to bled out for four minutes is a problem, but giving survivors a free get out of jail card isn’t the solution. Killer won, sure, they’re being toxic by not hooking, but the game shouldn’t punish them by letting the losers reset. The solution is easy. Let the game detect if the survivors have a way to get back up on their own, if not, the killer automatically Moris one survivor and the entity takes the rest. Maybe cut down the base bleed out time to two minutes or even give survivors a concede option.

    Im not against making the game fun for both sides, I’m just against making it more fun for one side while taking away player agency or punishing someone for playing well and rewarding someone for playing poorly. It why you don’t see me saying anything against base-kit BT or the upcoming anti-face camping mechanic. They punish poor killer game play but don’t really reward survivors for misplays.

  • Huge_Bush
    Huge_Bush Member Posts: 5,085
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    There will always be a meta no matter how much anyone complains. It’s the nature of multiplayer games. Killers and survivors will always gravitate to the strongest perks .

    The survivors have an advantage in that they can make teams and vary the perks to help cover everything a killer may do.

  • EmmaFrostyEyes
    EmmaFrostyEyes Member Posts: 685
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  • fulltonon
    fulltonon Member Posts: 5,762
    edited June 2023
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    "Just give us free rights of disconnection and arbitrary denial of 4k" is hardly fair tbh.

  • Seraphor
    Seraphor Member Posts: 8,968
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    Then what is the perk for?

    If you shouldn't have to rely on getting slugged to use Unbreakable, and you shouldn't have to use Unbreakable to deal with getting slugged, why does the perk even exist?

  • DwightDwigt
    DwightDwigt Member Posts: 63
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    Yep.

    If developers want to get spicy, they could add basekit Tenacity too, once Survivors have been slugged for more than 30 seconds.

    The fundamental problem is lack of player agency. Being slugged for 4 minutes is similar to the experience of old Eruption. Players want to play, and, obviously, in those circumstances, it's almost impossible to play.

    (A quick bleedout option is a no-brainer fix, so, naturally, it probably won't happen.)

    If players could control their bleedout, they'd have agency.

    If players could crawl with Tenacity speed (after 30 seconds), they'd have agency.

  • EmmaFrostyEyes
    EmmaFrostyEyes Member Posts: 685
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    My idea was just bleed out or survivors can get up by themselves when there are two player’s remaining so that there is no slugging for the 4k

  • Seraphor
    Seraphor Member Posts: 8,968
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    With all the issues of survivors killing themselves on the hook, do you really think a 'quick bleedout' feature is a good idea?

  • Veroles
    Veroles Member Posts: 868
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    Totally understandable, you turn one wheel and while you turn it, 10 others turn with it. That happens pretty often.

  • Pulsar
    Pulsar Member Posts: 20,544
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    Honestly, I'd be interested to see how it would've been if UB didn't stack with the 45 second recovery.

  • camping_site
    camping_site Member Posts: 136
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    I am 100% sure anti camping tech is going the same path because there is no way devs would hurt killers so much. Creating AI survivors had to be too resource demanding just so new killers could train. When most survivor players leave, there is an option for bots who will replace them and will never complain of OP killers.

  • Huge_Bush
    Huge_Bush Member Posts: 5,085
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    It is a team game and your team is only as strong as the weakest link. You didn't have to tell your teammate to bring in Unbreakable, you could have equipped it. Seeing as you didn't shows me that you don't think slugging is as big as an issue as you claim it is. If it was, you would have equipped it.

    You getting downed 1 time and dying isn't a problem with the game, the killer or their perks, its a problem with bad teammates. Ask the devs for better matchmaking or go the SWF route.

    I'm all for a faster bleed out option, but me telling you to bring in a perk to counter the killer is in no way "Unfair". You just don't want to hear it. And yes, I am serious about No Mither. I've had groups show me how strong it is in a team that comes in prepared to work to its strengths. You may not be good enough to run it, you may not have good teammates to take advantage of it, but that's a player problem, not a game problem.

  • Ayodam
    Ayodam Member Posts: 2,353
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    What’s the alternative? That they’re slugged for 4 minutes? Either players have some sort of autonomy or they don’t.

  • Veroles
    Veroles Member Posts: 868
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  • EmmaFrostyEyes
    EmmaFrostyEyes Member Posts: 685
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    “Thats a player problem” the killer slugged never picked up and had a perk that blocked auras so i cant see my teammates and they cant see me. How is that our fault?

    ”clearly you dont think slugging is a problem” i made a whole thread about it an im here discussing how to fix it. Also i dont bring unbreakable because i like to run different perks. Using meta is just boring

    honestly we are going knowhere with this so its best to just drop the convo. Have a good day

  • H2H
    H2H Member Posts: 660
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    How highly did your team prioritize breaking the hex totem?

  • EmmaFrostyEyes
    EmmaFrostyEyes Member Posts: 685
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    As soon as she started slugging we couldnt. Especially on lerys with no communication

  • VikingDragonXii
    VikingDragonXii Member Posts: 2,885
    edited June 2023
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    They need to look at Survivor Gen Speed Perks, Tool Boxes, and BNP. Also for all that's good and sweet stop bringing out more Tool Box and Gen speed perks...with the Buff plus the current Gen Meta of survivors we will see three gens pop extremely quickly.


    I'm all for stopping 3-gen def from the beginning of the game.


    Me and another user came up with a idea that would help curve tunneling. Basically for each hook there will be a buff/debuff for either Killer/Survivors. The Killer however HAS to hook a different Survivor to receive the buff/debuff. Ie If he hook Survivor A he then has to Hook Survivors B, C or D to receive the next stack. IF LLf he hooks Survivor B them he can Hook Survivors A again for a stack.

    But if he tunnels Survivor A and constantly hooks then then he will lose stacks. Also once a Survivor dies on Hook them the Killer loses all stacks gained from said Survivor to make the effects less for the remaining Survivors. Once two Survivors are left then the loses all stacks permanently for the rest of the match.

    Now we didn't come up with the numbers because we both are not good with balancing stuff like that but that's the General idea

  • EmmaFrostyEyes
    EmmaFrostyEyes Member Posts: 685
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    Brand new parts should just be deleted. Tool boxes need a fat nerf. I dont think making them just being used for sabo is a good idea tho. Making them only speed up gens that were damaged may be the way to go

  • IamFran
    IamFran Member Posts: 1,605
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    Even though I despise the slugging unless it is for a good reason (getting an Adept achievement or because there are a survivor nearby) I'm against the basekit unbreakable, however I would like a possibility of suiciding while being slugged as you can do in the hook, being 4 minutes in the ground bored just for satisfying the whim of a player is not OK.

    And yes, Unbreakable is a counter, but can only be used once per match, the killer can just down you again, No Mither is another infinite counter but that perk is a troll perk with the horrible handicap of being injured the entire time and Soul Guard needs an active Hex which ir more infrequent than ever these days.

  • VikingDragonXii
    VikingDragonXii Member Posts: 2,885
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    Yea BNP is stupid easy to hit the skill checks....and that's a instant 25% progress...but I think tool boxes should get the medkit Nerf. A C.Box with the best repair speed and charge addons can rip through gens like nobody's business

  • JustAnotherNewbie
    JustAnotherNewbie Member Posts: 1,941
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    It's coming in a year (if we're being optimistic) or more. Maybe with camping nerfed killers will go for a more slug heavy playstyle and I think that will uncover the truth about slugging.

  • JustAnotherNewbie
    JustAnotherNewbie Member Posts: 1,941
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    I mean if survivors can be productive after their first hook (which pierced them close to their heart), it does not make any sense they cannot get up after being down. Like survivors can survive 2 hooks and do gens and escape but if you slug them and no one has unbreakable then no one can do anything?