99% gates
I see a lot of people doing 99% gates in pretty much every situation and for me it looks like they think it is always the smartest decision doing it all the time. In most of my games it seems people do not think about it at all and do it as universal recipe because they are the opinion it is always smart.
I lost count how often i died because of them especially in solo queue where you have no communication to your teammates.
I can understand that people do it because of certain situations but to be honest i can't really remember when i died last time caused by them.
There are the following situations which come in my mind why people do 99% gates but all of them are mostly outplayable.
- Bloodwarden: Last time i died because of bloodwarden was a year ago because mostly i simply trigger it under purpose when someone gets hooked and this person is far away from exit gates. When killer decides to check exit gates i am in 99% save because i hide. I do this because it simply disarms the perk and can not triggered later if people go down near exit gate.
- EGC: When someone gets hooked and you open the exit gate after it, you have 3-4 minutes time to save all remaining survivors. That means more or less around 3 people can stay on hook for a complete hookstage. When people are not able to get everyone out during 3 hookstages, they probably will not be able to get everyone out anyway because mostly it ends in a trade.
- Noed: That is maybe the only reason where i would say it would make sense because people need maybe time to cleanse it but nevertheless it also can end in a big disaster because what will you do when everybody is slugged. If exit gates are open the killer knows people can try to crawl out at least. If closed, there is no possibility to crawl out for everyone.
But also when i think about my games playing as killer. (and i play around 50% killer).. I can not remember where a closed exit gate brought them a key moment what changes something to their favor.
So what actually is the sense behind?
Comments
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1- Denies the killer the certainty of knowing where survivors are, and which gates are open. The killer has to go to each gate and see for themselves whether it is 99'd or not if they want to have info on the gates, instead of getting a loud sound notification upon EGC start.
2- Gives the whole team time to hide and reset for any potential rescue attempt.
3- It's simply more flexible and non commital than opening them.
4- I died to bloodwarden 3 times in past 3 weeks
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Amen. You are absolutely right. In most cases 99% doors don't make sense and kill people. Especially in Solo Q. I'm afraid we're dealing with the same swarm intelligence that thinks it's absolutely smart to NEVER cleanse against a plague, to do gens only in groups and always selfcare in a corner for 69sec+ against legion.
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People need couple of minutes to reset to do multiple rescue tries? Why people can not hide while exit gates are opened? What flexibility it gives what an opened exit gate gives not? How the scenarios looked like where you died 3 times because of bloodwarden?
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There's a multitude of very good reasons to 99 the exit gates. Among them is ruling out the possibility of blood warden, but it also ensures there's enough time for everyone to heal up and go for a rescue if necessary. It removes the added pressure for someone who was in chase when the last gen popped, and they didn't see where the gates were. If that person goes down in chase, and gets hooked far away from a gate, they have enough time to make the journey to a gate.
There are more reasons, but it's really just playing smart.
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I usually 99 gates because I’ve been screwed by Blood Warden too many times. Seems like a commonly used perk these days. It feels really good to deny the killer Blood Warden value.
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I really do not understand what your issue is with this. You have just confirmed Blood Warden to which this is a solution and - along with NOED - I see it more and more often. Either because of the upcoming camp changes or genrush - killers replaced Lethal Pursuer with one of these two. And of course there's No Way Out. A lot of killers come prepared for the EGC in mind.
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The intelligence you mentioned is non-existent in the SoloQ games I play. Perhaps this is something apparent in your region / servers. Let's not generalise if we can do it.
The primary issue with SoloQ is the fact that everybody plays differently.
E.g. Plague you brought up: one member cleans immediately, the other never. The solution is in-between.
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99ing gates is almost always the dumbest decision unless multiple people are injured and someone is being chased / on the hook.
2 minutes (time is longer when someone is downed/hooked) are way enough, and theres no risk of death to 99
People, stop 99ing gates, especially if you're not in a swf. One of the most annoying things is being chased, reaching a gate just to see it 99ed and nobody around to open it
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Unless it's a scenario where it's a bad idea to 99% gates (against ranged killers for eg), there's no reason to not do it. You're right about the fact that it doesn't save the day very often but why not do it if it has no downsides in case it's one of those times it'll be game changing ?
Even if it doesn't make you win the game, it's obviously much more comfortable for survivors to do all their end game shenanigans without being on a timer, especially in solo q where half the time survivors take "gates opened" as a signal to escape and leave everyone behind, or just succomb to panic and run head first for a save without letting you heal them first.
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The thing with blood warden i can understand in a way.
Lets say the guy gets hooked near exit gate and people open it directly. Okay. That's understandable and i also don't do this when i am in an absolutely unsafe position. It's more smart to open the gate after the person is hooked because the chance that everyone escape is incredibly high.
In a lot of scenarios people are hooked on a place where killer has no insight to the exit gates. When this person gets hooked and blood warden triggers, it is useless most of the time because what should the killer do? Going to the exit gate and gamble on luck to find a survivor while the other guy gets unhooked for free? When the survivor realizes that blood warden is active, this person hides anyway. Of course it can happen that a survivor get found and downed in time but like said, i died last time a year ago because of BW.
Blood warden in general is "mostly" only successful when people do not expect it and/or have no idea how to deal with it, imo.
When someone is hooked deep in a corner on a map like borgo that also makes no real difference when you open the gate exactly when this person gets hooked. In most scenarios you are able to find each other, to heal up, to manage a save or two. When that all takes too long someone dies anyway. I see a lot of situations where people tried to help, were not able to because of what ever circumstances, running to the exit gate and die against it.
In a full SWF is that maybe a bit different and people can have in certain situations a little more value but i played against a lot swfs which died only because 99% gates.
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I have very often games where i have the last chase. In a lot of those cases i am able to reach the gate but die against it because nobody is there to open it. A lot of things going down the river because the gate is not opened in my matches.
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99'ing gates is almost always the right decision, the issue is in soloQ most people don't know how to do it correctly.
The crucial part is that you must not only 99' the door, but ALSO stay ready to open that door on short notice. I consider that the person who 99's the door becomes responsible for completing it later. If they cannot stay near the door, then it's usually better to open it rather than leave it 99'd.
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^^^This AND if you open the gates and BW is in play, you only have seconds to get out. If the killer hangs someone 60 seconds into EGC, it guarantees everyone left inside dies. 99 the gates totally removed BW from the equation. Why take chances?
Now are there times that it's best to open the gates? Sure. But not 99 gates is essentially limiting Altruism at the end game. Because you have to run out if someone goes down.
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Yeah maybe but that is mostly not the case sadly.
Thing is also when 2 people stay at the exit gate and wait for better weather, there is mostly nobody which can support with hittanks.
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OP made it very clear that 99% doors rarely make sense, least of all in the Solo Q. If you don't understand his reasoning, I'm sorry. If you think only the Solo-Q players in my region are 99% Door enthusiasts, then, well, ok.
One more thing: the OP didn't say that 99% of the doors are fundamentally wrong. He just states that solo players in particular always do 99% of the doors without considering whether it makes sense or not. And that, in my opinion, results in far more deaths than any other Blood Warden I come across once a year.
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In regular matches, I only 99 the gates if I'm staying by them...I've been downed or have downed people in 99'ing gate scenarios when nobody is next to the gate and the person chased needs to open it and leave.
In some circumstances, 99'ing that gate is a good thing to do - it allows time for the rest of the team to heal up before going for a save for example (so you can heal everyone, then open the gate before heading off for the save). But it's like everything else, whether the practical aspect of it is worth it in the game scenario, and all that's very dependent on each game.
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One of the most annoying things is being chased, reaching a gate just to see it 99ed and nobody around to open it
Oh boys and girls, the classic. It is always the same. One survivor opens the gate to 99% and leaves it behind. The other gate, by the way, is usually never touched. You will be chased last, you are DoH, reach the locked gate. You're like, f#ck, keep running and get to the 99% door, hit the switch and bam, you're on the floor. Solo Q at its finest. GG
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Well that sure is a problem, but the problem here isn't that the gate is 99%, it's that whoever 99%ed it wasn't there to open it and / or take a hit for you. If I 99% a gate bc someone is injured and in chase I don't leave it unless they're downed or if I have empathy and know exactly where they are (and depending on the situation I open it before leaving).
In any case, dying in front of the gate bc no one is here to open it happens much less often than dying due to teammates leaving me behind bc they're scared of endgame or bloodwarden in my experience.
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If the killer is that close problem wasn't 99 gates. The problem was that the person who did the 99 disappeared into thin air. If they saw you coming and then opened the door and then took a hit for you. You're much more likely to survive than if the door was open and they still disappeared into thin air.
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The problem is that if killers want to slug for the 4k, it’s considered an awful waste of time, and BHVR should be pressured into preventing that from happening……
….. but if survivors want to 99% an exit gate, so they can sweat for the 0k, even though they could instead just immediately leave for a 1k…… then that’s fine, and BHVR should allow it.
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I reacted to you making a statement on a community (that you don't really know), a statement that is as patronising as it can be.
I see no explanation on Blood Warden but thanks for your empathy towards me.
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I see no explanation on Blood Warden but thanks for your empathy towards me.
OP has made various statements about Bloodwarden:
Bloodwarden: Last time i died because of bloodwarden was a year ago because mostly i simply trigger it under purpose when someone gets hooked and this person is far away from exit gates. When killer decides to check exit gates i am in 99% save because i hide. I do this because it simply disarms the perk and can not triggered later if people go down near exit gate.
In a lot of scenarios people are hooked on a place where killer has no insight to the exit gates. When this person gets hooked and blood warden triggers, it is useless most of the time because what should the killer do? Going to the exit gate and gamble on luck to find a survivor while the other guy gets unhooked for free? When the survivor realizes that blood warden is active, this person hides anyway. Of course it can happen that a survivor get found and downed in time but like said, i died last time a year ago because of BW.
Blood warden in general is "mostly" only successful when people do not expect it and/or have no idea how to deal with it, imo.
You are welcome :3
Btw I don't patronize anyone. Please don't put words in my mouth I never said. If you love playing the 99% gatekeeper then go for it. If you enjoy doing 99% gates only to leave them and look for totems or chests, then do it. I can't prevent it.
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That is something what makes pretty sense.
When someone opens the exit gate and wanna leave, then this has at least a thought behind. This person wanna leave for a whatever reason. If that is fair about the team or not. Nevertheless that has nothing to do if 99% gates are helpful or not when you wanna be helpful for the team itself.
A lot of people seem to do it because they always seem to think it's clever and helpful to the team, and they do it with so much easiness and conviction, without really thinking about the current situation. More or less like an autopilot. At least in solo queue.
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Oops, i skipped this comment by accident. Sorry.
My "issue" is, that blood warden itself does not really harm much when triggered controlled, compared with 99% gates, at least when nobody is dead on hook. It also can happen that people do rescue actions and are about to leave and the killer is able to down someone, pick this person up and triggers blood warden near the exit gates. When i play killer that also happened sometimes when i use BW.(and i do not play it very often)
But here an example:
Lets say you have a scenario where nobody is dead on hook, someone gets hooked anywhere in the middle of the map, i open the exit during animation, blood warden triggers. What should happen? The most common thing what happens in my games is, that the killer gets another down, but when people notice there's blood warden active, they do not cuddle at the same location, they split. It is pretty rare that the killer is able to slug 4 people at once in 60 seconds. There must go wrong literally everything that this situation occurs.
Even if it's possible, there is a much lesser chance that the killer can hook everybody and prevent all survivors from escaping because when gates are opened, most have the possibility to crawl out after BW runs out. So all what happens in most cases is, that the killer gets another hook for free. But in most of my games people are able to reset and can go for a save after it.
Lets take the same situation just without blood warden and exit gates closed.
Someone gets hooked in middle of the map, people do the unhook and because the exit gates are not opened, the killer feels animated to slug multiple people when there is a chance. At least i do this when i see a realistic chance to it. Also when i am not able to slug everyone, i still have a lot of moments where i can kill someone and hook the other guy which i slugged.
But in worst case everybody is slugged and no one can escape. That's a situation what happens much more often in my games instead that survivors get sacrificed because of BW.
So i ask myself what is the better decision* over the long run in most games. That any here and there triggers BW and the killer gets in worst case another hook because of that, or the thing that a killer is able to get a chance to slug the whole team when there is a lucky moment because the gates are closed?
My personal issue with it is simply, that the risk calculation in most 99% gate situations seems to be miscalculated and that the things which can happen because the exit gates are closed do have much more harm potential over the long run. So it makes to me not really much sense that people are more scared because of BW instead of closed exit gates.
This is more or less the same with Noed but this comment is long enough already.
Post edited by Veroles on0 -
99ing gates backfires more than often than it helps. It is something that people do because it makes them feel smarter and more knowledgeable than they are.
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It depends on the situation and the killer and what your resources are as a survivor.
You may need more time to reset and figure out how to approach a situation than what you have in EGC. 99ing a gate maximizes your overall likelihood of getting an optimal outcome. It just depends on what the situation is and how it develops. I've had games turn in and out of my favor as both killer and survivor due to 99%'d gates. It's an extra measure of safety that never truly hurts to take in most situations. It's less worthwhile if there are two people left but add a third or fourth then it suddenly makes more sense.
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99ing gates has its uses, but often backfires.
As a killer, when the last gen has popped and even 30 seconds have passed, I'm just assuming the gates are 99ed. And as such I will defend any hook I get after that point, since there are literally no other objectives left. If survs couldn't 99 gates, I might play more liberally in the endgame.
But it does help avoid Blood Warden, and can give you time to find a NOED totem or coordinate an endgame save.
All that said, I am a big proponent of gate regression. Like healing w/mangled, but a bit slower regression. Let go of the gate, it should regress to zero.
Post edited by Thusly_Boned on1 -
This kind of situations are understandable. At least it does not harm when people open the exit gate when it makes sense. Thing is most only seem to open the gate when they feel 100% save, but because of this thinking a lot different things can go massively wrong for no necessary reason.
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THIS
Either 99 a gate and stay near it to open it if need be, or open it if you run back into the trial. 99ing it and then leaving the gate kills you mate when they are chased to the gate.
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I'm all in for gate regression, but only when end game was reached (all gens done). When you are the last surv. and the killer closed the hatch, it can already be hard enough to open one of the gates. With regressing gates, you could not even prep a gate to 24% (inch before first light goes on).
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Blood Warden shows you the auras of survivors inside the exit gates. A lot of the time, when a killer wants to make a BW play, they'll leave the survivor slugged while the EGC timer trickles down. Once it gets far enough, they hook the survivor, guaranteeing that anyone left in the trial either dies or escapes with a sliver of time left.
If a killer hooks a survivor right infront of an exit, then 99ing is unnecessary. If they hook them somewhere further away, like Basement for example, a rescue attempt will be much more difficult if the gates have been opened. Depending on the situation, you may end up trading places and have to be rescued yourself.
Good killers also know how to direct chases by anticipating which route you want to go and cutting off your access to that route. There are situations where 99ing the gate backfires, such as when someone gets downed as they open the gate, but in that situation, it's more a fault of there being nobody there to take a hit.
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Blood warden:
Especially 4k BW kills need a certain amount of combined circumstances to make it possible. A good blood warden play you need to do really smart and the less predictable it is, the better.
Yes, they keep them slugged when exit gates are open already, that's why it's the best way to open the exit gate "when" the killer is about to hook the downed survivor (You see the hook animation). Why that? Because BW simply gets triggered at the beginning of EGC and this 4 man BW kill is not even possible because the perk gets disabled. I know how BW kill strats work, but I also know that a lot things can go wrong what makes it not work. (And mostly it does not work so easy)
I also made it work couple of times, even when they tried to prevent a 4k blood warden sacrifice and exactly this backfired, because what happened mostly in the games "where" it worked was, that they played into my hands, because I waited for the moment where they thought they are save, but then I did a play what they did not had in mind and pressured one survivor back into the map.
In worst case, a not controlled triggered BW does cause much more damage over the long run as a controlled triggered BW at the start of EGC, and when the killer really do not wanna hook, that's too obvious anyway. But more often than not, the killer gets a kill anyway. When the killer slugs for couple of minutes, survivor bleed out so or so, when he totally refuses to hook until a exit gate opens.
But also when an exit gate is open and there is a potential risk of BW, there is still enough time trying to do something and when people are really unsure, they are still able to leave before the timer reach the dangerous limit.
That's why I see this as a big miscalculation of risk potential.
Basement:
When someone is hooked in basement after last gen pops and people are not able to get this person out without trades, then "minimum" someone will die anyway most likely.
Especially in this kind of situations where someone is in the basement, you need the full team to tank, and it is not a rarity, that after they made a successful rescue, someone goes down caused by a 99% gate because: Who will open the exit gates when everybody is involved in tanking?
In best case, someone is able to reach the exit gate and open it without big trouble, but that requires that everybody runs to the same gate and it is also a thing what killer you face and if this killer is able to down someone based on his kit or not, or maybe the killer has STBFL and nobody really realized it before what makes him maybe possible to slug multiple people at once anyhow. That is also not really a rarity. For me that is always a huge gamble at least in solo queue.
Killer predicts survivors escape route:
Yes, that is absolutely true, but nevertheless it is mostly more helpful when people open the gate and do hittanks instead of waiting in front of the exit gate doing nothing. Especially when a lot of people are dead on hook, it makes literally no sense to me when people do not open the exit gate and do support with hittanks, because a rescue from hook situation can not occur anyway anymore.
Added because forgot to mention something about the aura reading of blood warden:
That the killer can see the aura of survivors in the exit gate area by blood warden is absolutely useless because: Why people are standing there at all? That has also more cons than pros.
- First of all, when the killer sees it that you are there that's an information where he can work with and information is a huge criteria for a killer.
- People who stand inside the exit gate area can also be pushed out so they can not help anybody anymore when that happens (e.g 2 people are slugged and the killer sees you at the exit, there is a significant chance you will be pushed out, what means 2 free kills for the killer when there is no UB)
- Who is inside the exit gate area is more or less useless and does not support anything. I can understand that people reset near the exit gate anywhere but when the killer has the information that people reset there that leads into point one.
The only thing what comes currently in my mind why this is maybe a good idea is, that there is no chance to help anymore.
Post edited by Veroles on0 -
As killer i find it hilarous when survs die to 99% doors because they tried to bypass the EGC which was added for a reason. 2 - 4 mins mostly is enough time anyway. As solo surv i rather insta open the gate, insta leave or stay near the 99% door. If the killer managed a hook at the end of the world i just leave as he deserved that 1 kill, won't matter who it is.
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That is how I do it sometimes, too. That depends on the situation. I mostly run "Bond" and I am able to track the other survivors so I can easily support with a hittank, after I opened the gate and I do know where they are at.
If I go for a rescue or not depends really if I have the feeling that makes sense and the situation allows it. When the team is able to signalize to myself the expression they are able to manage a save and they more or less know what they are doing, I see no reason why I shouldn't. To me it feels pretty boring when I only think about my own survive in first place.
They do not need to be heavy experts or something, but a certain knowledge must be there, otherwise I just die for nothing in most cases and mostly the others with me.
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99'ing the gates is fine. Abandoning the gate and not going to take hits/etc is not. What you're describing is people who know the common strategy of 99'ing the gates, but not utilizing it properly. I see way too much Blood Warden and NOED use to just as mindlessly open a gate as some people might mindlessly 99 it.
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That's correct. The big issue i see is, that a huge majority use it as holy universal recipe for every possible situation and extend the opening until they are literally forced to.
After reading through the comments what everybody wrote, i see a little sense here and there and yes, sometimes it can give a little time to manage some situations a little better.This is something where i can say okay, it's fine. Nevertheless my personal experience is, that more things go wrong than right at least in solo queue.
I have games where people wanna prevent me to open the exit gate even when people are full life, the hook is pretty near by where a survivor hangs and everything speaks for a save rescue. Mostly when i do not "sneaky" open the gate, it all ends up in a chaos and people get sacrificed, and on top of it i receive a nonsense flame in afterchat.
Also in the games where i open it and everything goes right and like expected, people flame me because i opened the exit gate and i am like ???.
It's just insane.
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My experience is a bit different, but I won't say wildly so. 99ing gates has proven extremely beneficial in many of my soloq matches. It's also gotten me killed a few times because the gate wasn't open when I got there and there wasn't anyone to open it. I think you're 100% correct that it's riskier in soloq.
But what strategy isn't riskier in soloq?
And I don't mean in the 'usual' way of 'players are bad'. It's just kinda the reality that soloq players work off of a far more limited set of information which in turn means that even a good sq player is more likely to make a bad play than a player of equal skill in a 3 or 4 man SWF on comms. If everyone stopped 99'ing the gates as often in soloq and things like Blood Warden and NOED ended up with more kills (or heck, just being unable to organize a rescue in time), someone would complain about how not enough people 99 the gates.
Now, the situations you outlined where players - even with the right info - are taking the 99s as dogma to be followed not matter what, yes, that's incredibly silly to the point of being deterimental to the remainder of the match. And I will always hold that anyone flaming players in the chat is dumb and people should hopefully on the whole (we all screw up sometimes) keep that impulse at bay.
I do think part of it (and with any 'common' strategy) can in part be an issue of streaming. To be clear, I am not blaming streamers per say. They're entitled to their own opinions and putting them out in their shows. I have heard a number that I watch, or in some cases used to watch, say that gates should largely be 99ed no matter what. Well, except when they decide to just open the gate and leave that is!
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But what strategy isn't riskier in soloq?
When exit gates are open. Although sometimes you may not get saved everyone because the gates are opened too early, the critical damage that can be caused by opened exit gates is not that high compared to closed ones. Most people can crawl out and also the killer has two gates where people could escape through while a closed gate is a safe dead end.
Maybe it does make a helpful difference sometimes when gates are closed, nevertheless the chance that something ends in worst case is mostly significantly higher, imo.
The thing with the streamers i can just totally agree on. But like you said: It's not really their fault that a lot of people seem to blindly trust something just because they heard it on a stream. That's why different point of views and streams are really important to watch to get different angles and perspectives.
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I just open the gate. It seems like most of the time, when you 99%, the killer gets MORE KILLS because everyone tries to unhook and gets downed.
Just open the gate and leave.
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