Did the Dead Hard nerf prove that survivors were boosted by Dead Hard?
Almost all of my games are so easy now. It seems most survivors don't know how to loop well at all and this whole time it was just Dead Hard extending their chases.
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Only half of it, the other half is you dont waste time to mind game and bait out Dead hard against non DH users.
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My escape rate has continuously dropped and I never used DH in my life. I think the more I play this game, the worse I get.
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absolutely yes
the quality of teammates has gone down since dead hard was nerfed
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No, it's probably just more experienced players leaving.
Or, you aren't needlessly waiting out DH.
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Nah that's not it, bad survivors were rarely able to get any value out of DH anyway.
I've never used dead hard but my chases are shorter. When DH was nerfed there was also a lot of other changes, including basekit buffs to killers and Bloodlust.
I think the only impactful change the DH nerf had is that killers who used to waste 10s trying to bait it have stopped.
Also, a bunch of players left after the meta shake up but not all of them came back.
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What @Pulsar said.
Also vs most killers I am getting more value out of dh than pre patch. The counter play to dh is usually easy regardless of killer and it takes the killer to mess up, but most killers will swing into it now including myself. I cannot tell you how easy it is to bait dh as blight 85% of the time, but after the nerfs I simply don't care to bait it any longer.
I continue to use it sometimes as survivor but it really is a top 5 most boring perk to play against.
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In my personal experience, the exact opposite has been true, ever since they nerfed DH my killer games have increased in difficulty drastically. I'm used to seeing Adrenaline every now and again, but now if I don't see four in the endgame lobby, I'm super surprised. Survivors don't mess around thinking that they have DH as a third health state, they instead use other exhaustion perks that are almost guaranteed to give them value, as opposed to dabbing face first into a tree only to get downed immediately afterwards. If you don't tunnel or play one of the busted killers, you'll basically lose on most maps.
And SoloQ is...SoloQ. If the Killer isn't tunneling (or is playing a DC magnet killer), there's a decent chance of a 2-3 men out.
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I don't think so. Those expert at DH were experienced players anyway. These use WoO now or something else to try to extend a chase. Late in the evenings matches are just as tough for me as a killer. I do have shorter chases sometimes and I feel great being able to freely use my lunge attacks.
Initially, after the nerf, I had easy matches. Then the community noted the nerf and reacted... in all sorts of ways.
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It was more so, waiting it out until they inevitably use it at a pallet so they get the extra health state either way, now that's gone, it's a lot more noticeable.
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Actually, i feel like the games have gotten harder since the DH nerf.
Before i got a lot of free hits from fail DHs, now i have SB and Litjes extending chases for free
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1000% yes. There was no thing in the game that promoted the lack of any understanding of how to loop more. People didn't even try to look at the killer while chasing, because they always had an extra chance on button (as they thought).
Btw these players have not disappeared, for the most part they have become Lithe users.
I DON'T CARE WHERE KILLER IS JUST GIVE ME THIS WINDOW
Post edited by EQWashu on0 -
A lot of people had fun with that perk and left after it was nerfed. A ton of my friends that enjoyed it quit.
I used it as well but can still loop fine without it. I don't use an exhaustion perk now and my loops are even longer. So idk.
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A lot of veteran players probably stopped playing. DbD isn't and hasn't been in a good state in a very long time. So it isn't exactly surprising when people who have been playing for years, finally decide to put it down for good or take a break. I personally haven't booted the game up in the last 10 days.
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Most vet creators have all agreed that the state of the game now is the most balanced it has ever been, i doubt they left due to balance more like they've done everything they could after 7 years, there's only so much appeal this can bring in they long of time.
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By most creators, who are you specifically referring to? Cause I don't know any that share this sentiment of 'the game is the most balanced its ever been'. It very clearly isn't, lol.
Being burned out is one thing but leaving or taking a break b/c of game balance is a very real reason as well.
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It very clearly is. Game is the most balanced it has ever been. A lot of unhealthy things are in the past and dh is the first on this list.
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you are but 1/4th of your team. If everyone else used a crutch broken perk to survive and they no longer have easy access to it, their chases are cut shorter and you're next to get hooked.
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Bear in mind that even if you never used DH, many of your teammates did, and if they can't extend chases for as long now, it's gonna impact your escape rate.
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Here we go again with another ignorant and bias post and ofc a dh one at that for any invalid reasons. Also even more so funny how killers still to this day act ignorant as if that they dont have crutch add ons/and crutch perks. Not even worth saying much else next topic please.
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Exhaustion as a mechanic is a boosting mechanic. Sure good survivors still use exhaustion because its extremely good if not busted but the majority of times where I lose a match because exhaustion just enables holding W to pallets or super strong windows is numerous.
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Balanced doesn't necessarily mean it's fun.
Rock, paper, scissors is a perfectly balanced pvp game, but literally no one would play it for hours at a time, several days a week... It's not that fun to play.
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The game can be balanced and not be fun.
They released the worst Killer, perhaps ever, after a llackluster Killer. Knight and SM have been 6 months of agony
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How is that any different from killers Bloodlusting at every pallet turning every interaction into a diceroll?
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I'm not talking about blood lust rn. I'm just saying that exhaustion is a bad mechanic because it has virtually no drawbacks except for 2 perk interactions with it.
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It's almost like that's was what It was supposed to do against a killer that's naturally faster than you.
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100% my soloQ teammates cant hold a chase without their third health state
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The drawback of exhaustion perks is you can only use them once per chase. Plus, they are affected by all perk/addon that trigger exhaustion.
What more drawbacks do you need?
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Same, i have never had such a low escape rate. The current state is awful
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Where are all killers boosted by 4 gen defense loadouts? No one runs CoB/Overcharge/Eruption/Pain Res on all their killers anymore.
Both sides are guilty of relying on strong perks.
Post edited by GolbezGarlandGabrant on5 -
that is not much of drawback. your still extending chases outside of the killer control. the only drawback that I would say exhaust has is that sprint burst aspect of running forward allowing killer to build bloodlust when inside a chase increasing the likelyhood that the killer gets a faster hit. The drawback is easily mitigated by dropping safer pallets where bloodlust is not effectiveness.
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As the other guy said. Simply extending a chase by 20 seconds for EACH chase is insanely strong. Plus it inadvertently leads to more camping when I see juicer meg try to actually get my attention for a chase but then lithe/sprint burst to main. Plus the fact that most exhaustion perk/addons for killers are just horrible or are just not needed for that killer.
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I don't really have easier games but I have more fun ones. Not having to bait out Dead Hard in every chase makes the game overall more satisfying to play. Even when I hit a survivor and they DH it, it doesn't feel as annoying, because it's not every goddamn chase, every goddamn game.
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Not really. Depends on the teammates themselves and whether they give up on their 1st hook or just DC at the sight of the map or the sound of Nurse's screech. It's been 50/50 for me in SoloQ, usually, it's either a 3/4 man escape or the killer hard tunnels at 5 gens or face-camps, and then it's 1/2 out, or none if it snowballs.
I've actually taken off exhaustion perks, and I've never been able to loop/mind-game killers more lol. Except for SM, they don't have any brains to be mind-gamed. They just camp their precious 3-gen for 6 billion hours like the Gollums they are.
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Let's be honest, if you hated DH and were convinced it was what was making you lose, and now you are suddenly winning more, you are of course going to say that is proof it was DH, when actually you are probably ignoring lots of other possible reasons.
One is that there is a big update coming, which is attracting new people, and the more teams that are made up of newer and more inexperienced players, the easier job the killer is going to have, regardless of DH.
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i mean, you are expected to get some value of the perk you spent a slot on.
Extending the chase for an X amount of time is the whole purpose of using an exhaustion perk. It's a brief burst of speed in which you can gain distance by being faster than the killer for 3sec.
and all of them already have a trigger requirement to meet (running, fast vaulting, be injured, drop for a high place).
and all of them leaves you exhausted for 40 sec so you realistically only can use it once per chase, you cant spam it like years ago.
what are you expecting exhaustion perks to be? a perk that is always under the killer control? Then nobody would use them because they wouldnt help you at all.
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From experience on both sides, i don't think it affects the high skill survivors much. I think it's more affected the average to above average skilled survivors. I think the game is definitely hitting a weird spot where solo survivor/less skilled/new players are getting destroyed and the higher skilled players are kind of shrugging off the nerfs.
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i am just saying there is no drawback to equipping an exhaustion perk. the mechanic so strong that playing without an exhaustion perk is playing at handicap to some degree. It is to the point where exhaustion perks for survivor feel like they should be base-kit. survivor have often talked about the idea of survivors having unique powers and exhaustion perks kinda feel like unique powers.
what are you expecting exhaustion perks to be? a perk that is always under the killer control? Then nobody would use them because they wouldnt help you at all.
I am just saying that you cannot deny their value as killer in many situations as killer unlike large list of killer perks that often rely on survivor input to gain value. In other words, they are extremely consistent high-value perks if the survivor puts themselves into positions to take advantage of said exhaustion perk e.g Using balance landing while repairing a generator on the top of backwater swamp Pale-rose boat. The mechanic definitely hurts killers with low mobility/zero range options.
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Yeah, I'm still not convinced it has anything to do with DH. Iirc, the last usage rates from DBD for DH were 20% low MMR, 40% mid MMR, and 75% high MMR. On my Switch I'm firmly mid-MMR, but when I started survivor on my PS5 at the start of the year I was low MMR on that platform. If good players like JRM, Skermz, Hens, even Tru3 when he'd play alternate killer/survivor games, could go numerous games in a row without getting DH value after update 6.1, then I'd imagine low and mid MMR would have a similar, or even worse, experience. So with usage at 20-40% in low to mid MMR, and far less than that actually getting value, I really don't see that having any sort of real impact.
Apparently Windows of Opportunity is used by 1 in 3 players, yet survivors in my games aren't suddenly god loopers. Prove Thyself is up there as well, yet gens aren't going at light speed in my games. So I'm not placing much value in a single perk.
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I mean I feel as though a lot of survivors got off on abusing broken things in this game. After 6.1.0 I stopped seeing the stereotypical "toxic survivor", even more so after the clicking changes on either side.
Don't get me wrong there are a lot of issues with this game still but it is overall more balanced than ever before and I guarantee you a lot of vets have dropped it because they can't mess around for 3 min every game and still win. Imagine I only went for blight flicks every single hit and still expected to 4k, that's the exact same thing.
Killers are willing to sweat, even if I don't agree with what that entails. Survivors for the most part regardless of skill level aren't really willing to sweat hard and don't really want to either. It's a difference of mentality/skill and overall entitlement.
This community is just blatantly biased and not self aware. The worst comp players have a larger ego than faker in league, the average player on either side still has a large ego.
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I'm not sure where my analogy got lost here, but I never said anything about either side.
Killers also seem to frequently lament that there's more pressure now to constantly be in chase, that the game is more stressful, and games are far, far more efficient than they used to be. The single most common complaint right now is that there's no time to do anything other than play optimally, including make mistakes. Which is exactly what you said for the survivor side.
It seems to me that the current 'balanced' state of the game is just diluting it into being more optimized, which inevitably drains the fun out of it.
And to be clear, it drains the fun out of it for players in every role.
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can you define what balance in this game means, please?
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thats a very simplistic view. Most killers dont destingiuish between solo survivor and swf.
I used to be a solo survivor main, but even though i enjoy that much more than killer in a good match, you dont get good matches anymore.
Most of my matches, both killer and survivor, are usually a total stomp for one side. As killer, i mostly get 4ks, and then some matches where i dont end 4 chases until its over. As surviovr, i get mostly tunneling and camping, and i finally understand why so many survivors give up early.
Because solo survivor is the lottery, and winning means you get decent teammates and a decent killer. And its clear early on that thisl will be a stomp match again, so a lot of people just opt out of that match.
I, however, just opt out of playing survivor. While i used to like it more, solo is just not fun at the moment. So i play killer instead. But since most matches are a stomp for one side there too, matches become either boring or frustrating fast, ending in way less playtime for me then i used to have.
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But they dont need a drawback. As i said before, They are already restricted around the fact that you can only use it once per chase and has a trigger requirement.
This game is already balanced around the fact that survivors are going to have exhaustion perks as aside that short burst of speed the killer is always faster than them and they build BloodLust overtime to be even faster. And survivors on hit speed got also reduced.
They are strong, yes but that is because they serve the purpose they were created for. In a game where killers can teleport, throw projectiles, blink, throw chains, dash, having something that gives you a small window of speed is great.
And i am heavy against of survivors' perk literally having a wall full of restrictions like potential energy or Blood rush.
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You fail to understand that even 3 seconds is a lot of time for a killer to catch up and the "requirement" for sprint burst or lithe aren't even requirements. Exhaustion perks like nurse, just kill all balance because you cant buff or nerf them without making them completely useless or broken. Better off just completey reworking them/removing them.
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I would actually so most killers go out of their way to try and distinguish a swf in any way possibly so they don't feel bad when they lose.
I agree good matches are rare though, that's an mmr issue more than anything else though and the drastic lose in veterans has increased that disparity to a disgusting degree.
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I think DH benefitted good-decent survivors most, but not bad ones. And if the killer knew to wait just 3 seconds he had the down. And I remember a lot of killers in my game being able to wait out DH, some even anticipated it before the first time I used it.
It was also a fun perk to use in general, but the timing was very latency depending and sometimes downright weird.
Sprint Burst has always been strong though.
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After a lot of matches without seeing a single DH, I can say that it's quite true. Lot of people used the autoDh script, so they can hit DH even when is impossible for them to use it with a perfect timing. Lot of survivors were carried by DH. Not everyone, but a lot of survs yes
Post edited by illNicola on0 -
Speaking for myself, my survivor ability initially declined after the dead hard nerf however I feel like I’ve quickly adapted. My timing and looping has gotten tighter and more precise, and I play a bit safer as well. I’ve also discovered the value in other exhaustion perks, like I def slept on overcome, which has also altered the way I play survivor, and improves my pathing. I don’t know if this is the same for other survivor players though.
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We can’t just keep nerfing / removing the fun aspects of the game for the sake of balance.
The game is in its most balanced state ever yet there are constant complaints that it’s the most miserable it’s ever been.
Balance does not always equate to fun.
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My favorite thing about this whole topic is that there people who do not even use exhaust perks yet they can still loop good, so what to say about that part?
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