http://dbd.game/killswitch
Do anyone thinks a perk that gives permanent 3% hinderance to survivor who is injured would be OP?
I think it would be broken as heck but I've seen people saying something like "3% is nothing" and "being injured is already a risk", so I expect to those people I think this killer perk wouldn't be op?
Injuring survivor is as hard as being injured and it's still merely a 3% difference, after all.
Comments
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Most of the people don’t even play killer that are arguing this fact. They are desperately trying to math out the numbers instead of actually you know playing the game and seeing the perk in actual real world scenarios. It’s a massive boost and I’ll be playing survivor with this perk and the fact the new killer is pretty weak in his current state.
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Except it's pretty great even in math, basically flat out increases chase time pretty much no matter what, what else survivor want when all they have to do is waste killer's time as much as possible...?
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Yeaaah, this situation reminds me very much of dh discussions with survivor mains before its nerf.
"Oh no, this perk is absolutely fine, and not op at all, and 90% of the survivors run it just because it's fun."
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There is a survivor post saying the perk is fine so clearly killer version is well-balanced perk as well.
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I think it's funny that 3% is exact number on c33 and that is very noticeable as well.
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Well at least that perk has duration of 3 seconds and not permanent, lul
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Did I miss that they're adding the bloodlust equivalent of this as well?
Where after 15 seconds of a survivor being in chase, the killer suffers 5% hindered effect that stacks up to 3 times?
If we're going with analogous perks, you need to include at least one of the base kit effects that goes along with it.
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This kind of tit-for-tat equivalancy doesn't work for plenty of perks, though. Would it be balanced for Survivors to have a perk that grants 50% longer stun durations? Gotta get rid of Enduing then. Would it be okay for Killers to see the aura of any survivor within 36 meters? Then I guess it's decided, Bond needs to go.
Almost like we're talking about an asymmetrical game and what works for one side is implicity different for the other...
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It's not that kind of perks, the effect of movement speed is mostly equivalent.
and using bond for example there is stupid, because actual effect of it is showing your friend and not exactly "survivors", so it makes more sense to show crows aura, which would be mostly as strong as bond I'm sure.
Also I don't believe 50% longer stun duration is any stronger than enduring either tbh.
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If you're going to nitpick the Bond comparison, then you should reconsider how you started this entire discussion, since the killer equivalent of MFT would making the killer 3% faster instead of hinder Survivors. Does it really matter? Asymmetrical game is asymmetrical. It's not complicated.
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3% is meh when using it to run straight but strong on loops because of the hitbox size difference between killer & survivor.
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To be fair an Add-On "costs" way less than a Perk. Blight can run this Add-On and still has 4 Perks available.
A Survivor who uses Made for This can only equip 3 other Perks while having a Perk which prevents (or at least strongly discourages) them from using almost all Exhaustion-Perks and only works half of the time.
Let alone that the extra effect of C33 is way better.
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I mean, if you consider that killers are always faster than survivors and get faster every 15 sec with bloodlust you would realize that survivors being 3% hindered is waaay more impactful than survivlr having 3% haste.
I would completely do not care about a 3% hindered status on survivors if they could get 5% faster every 15 sec
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I see what you did there
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Don't forget that MfT doesn't work well/at all with other powerfull perks.
A closer equivellant would be to give a 3% hinderance penalty on hit but it all goes away if a generator gets damaged in any way
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It actually not meh for run straight,it gain you extra 25% distance.
Using 24m chasing as examples
If the distance between you and killer is 24.
Normally killer need 40 (24/(0.15×4))secs to caught up.
With MFT killer need 50(24/((0.15-0.03)×4) to caught up.
Even if you only shift W in to pre-drop, this is still a problematic perk.
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It does matter, because seeing survivor and seeing crows are actually different things.
It just doesn't matter for movement speed, this game has a lot of asymmetrical aspect but movement speed modifier is not the one.
It still gives survivors 20% more distance to reach tiles, it's fairly strong when you consider you can use it all the time unlike sprint burst that only activates on start.
...that doesn't seems to be that bad neither? like killers can stop using regression perks and just go for full slug/chase build.
Except bloodlust is literally a compensation for near infinites that is basically impossible to catch up with 4.6 and probably for the hitbox difference too, then it will go away on every pallet break or losing los or using killer powers or hitting survivors, in normal circumstances it just can't be stacked up.
Yeah in some tiles killers can abuse this, but then taking 35 seconds for a hit in a tile is basically a way to lose the game.
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Infinites don’t exist anymore and Bloodlust was in fact supposed to be removed along with them; it was a temporary measure. So it’s not a compensation anymore, really. Rovend’s point stands.
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It has been removed once, guess what, game literally did not work and BHVR had to revert it back.
So yeah I'd rather believe BHVR themselves than you, especially when they bring more and more ridiculous maps.
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i would be more than happy with the removal of bloodlust after maps are balanced so bl isn't needed anymore
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Call it a compensation or whatever you like does not change the fact that bloodlust exist and will essentially always activate to counter MFT. Most infinites are gone by now so a killer should be able to catch up to a survivor. Considering that a survivor using MFT will not be using exhaustion perks, the killer shouldnt be constantly losing LOS in the majority of maps.
And we are not even considering killer powers that make them go even faster, Blight's rush, spirit's phase, wesker double dash, even skull merchant only needs one deactivated drone to be equal to MFT.
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So basically you are saying MFT is a perk that can nullify some percentage of killer powers (which are always designed to be dealt with 100% movement speed and has lot of limitations according to it btw), basekit mechanics that is mandatory for killers and only activates on pretty much lost chase, can enhance shift+w strat, can enhance looping even more, and still thinks it's "less impactful" on survivors?
That's a chad take really, because you've perfectly explained how strong haste/hinderance effect is for both sides, yet somehow concluded with "this is fine", very nice.
In reality, neither things are more impactful, both hindrance or haste can easily break the game with easy conditions, just like how MFT currently does.
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Taking the skull merchant example, if you completely nullify this perk with just one deactivated drone i dont think is all that broken to begin with. We all know that SM main strength is in zoning gens so you are effectively countering this perk without you losing anything worthwhile. you don´t even need to change you playstyle at all.
Plus, i dont get why the "MFT is a perk that can nullify some percentage of killer powers" is a strong take to you. Perks are always meant to help you by countering something.
Take Calm spirit that counters Doctor's scream blast, would you nerf calm spirit then?
Take Urban evasion that could counter Hag's traps and Piramid Head's trail of torment, would you nerf urban evasion?
Take Autodidact that could counter any killer using Sloppy, which is fairly popular these days, would you also nerf it?
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People seem to forget that killers are faster when running and slower when they have to deal with pallets and windows, while survivors are slower when running and faster when vaulting pallets and windows. So if you make a certain course with X amount of windows and make a race between killers and survivors, in theory they should arrive at the same time.
Of course, survivors shouldn't have the same speed as killer from point A to point B, since the killer has to deal with 4 other survivors and can't waste too much time on one. That's why loop balance exists, but when loop balance isn't enough (looking at you Groaning Store house's main building) you need something to stop survivors from infinitely going over the same place to make them being caught impossible. That is why window blocking exists and that is why bloodlust exists.
They are just very situational mechanics that help deal with certain tiles. Window blocking only applies after 3 vaults on only one window and bloodlust takes a while to activate and disappears when either you hit a survivor or when you break a pallets, that's because then the game assumes that you have dealt with that loop and doesn't need those tools anymore. Essentially, you shouldn't rely on bloodlust nor window blocking every time because they take time to activate, and if you do rely on them, you will be wasting too much time on each chase.
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If your going that route and factoring in cost for each side then wouldn't you count it as one perk out of 16 or does it only go one way?
Ofc c33 is better than the secondary effect of a survivor perk, it's literally Neme in a bottle. I simply just brought up c33 because it's the same number.
I've also been running dh with it and there really is no downside to that combo. You would just go down without dh so you still get full value. You could argue the same thing for lithe in that you just don't use it until you would normally go down.
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I don't necessarily disagree with your points here, but I will say that simply running behind a survivor isn't the only solution available to killers.
Every killer has a power. Nearly every killer power in the game assists in chase in some way as well. Killers can take health states from range, instantly down a healthy survivor, hinder survivors, give themselves movement speed, gain stealth, teleport, zone survivors, or even several combinations of these at once. A couple can even vault pallets or windows with their power, or even shatter pallets as a part of their power.
I'm not sure why most of these haste discussions seem to assume there's absolutely nothing the killer can do here. A huntress with an empty loadout (no perks, no add-ons) still has two methods of hard countering this, for free, base kit: bloodlust or hatchets.
If you're going to play a killer like they have no power whatsoever, then no amount of 'game balance' will help you.
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i hope they nerf this perk so people like you can quit complaining about it.
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Since made for this goes away if the survivor heals, does the 3% slowdown you suggest do the same?
There’s also the fact that a killer version of this that applies a slowdown carries no risk and all reward for the killer. At least with made for this you need to be wounded to get the effect.
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The risk is the fact killer has to hit the survivor, it's as hard as being injured.
But then you can add whatever side-effect like perk limitation or something to make it on-par with the perk, it doesn't really change how broken it is.
Also if you read the title, you'd see it's "permanent hinderance for survivors who IS injured" so of course it will go away when you heal.
Basically all killer power is made to have (even though not exactly same) both downside and upside, hux and doctor is a great example of it... they can negate pallets or teleport, but then they both have big slowdown after/during his power usage, ultimately rendering the power much less effective than it seems.
So no, no power is a "counter" for MFT, all the power is designed against 100% movement speed because that's literally the how game is meant to be played in normal circumstance, every power gets hefty damage from MFT too (notably power with slowdown like hux or doctor).
I don't get why people thinks basekit powers/bloodlust can in any way "counter" movement speed buff really, when all those things are already meant to be a counter against pallet and windows and smaller hitbox and quadrupled amount of players.
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But of course, each killer has their methods of getting survivors. The problem is that this extra 3% affects more killers who rely on M1 to get downs and they already struggle to begin with. 3% isn't gonna do much against a Nurse who teleports or a Blight who dashes around, but for a Pig who is a M1 killer is devastating. Sure, I guess you can just hit & run with Ghostface and Pig, but eventually you still will have to take a full chase.
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It makes me not run an exhaustion perk. Thats how OP it is.
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3% still does a lot for nurse and blight though, for the nurse it decently reduces the distance margin of blink hit, and for the blight it can decrease the distance survivors could "outrun" (by that I mean to the pallet/windows) blight charge.
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I don't get why people thinks basekit powers/bloodlust can in any way "counter" movement speed buff really,
I genuinely find it impossible to believe that anyone could honestly say they have no idea how hindering a survivor (for 8-15%), instadowning a survivor from healthy, injuring a survivor from ranged, increasing the killer's movement speed (up to 9+m/s in some cases), and other abilities hard counter a 3% move speed increase.
If a 5% movement speed increase doesn't overcome a 3% movement speed increase in your mind, then I have nothing more to say on the matter.
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Its a 4 v 1. The enduring comparison you made is a joke.
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Depends. If it was a straight up 3% hindered with no requirement, yeah that'd be busted. Otherwise, I think there are plenty of ways to make it a fine perk. It could be a hex perk, or the hindered could have a 60 duration from when you last lost a health state, for examples.
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He literally addressed that in the last sentence of his post?
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Hex perk lol.
Does anyone who isn't making a meme build actually still use hex perks for a serious build? Hex perks & totems need a serious overhaul imo
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I'm sure there are some hex Gamers out there. I am NOT one of them lmao (kinda tragic as a hag main)
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??
Hex perks are for sure still strong. I see plaything pentimento quite often and see a lot of different devour builds. Just because ruin isn’t strong anymore doesn’t mean hex perks are dead lol
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To hear the doom and gloom about this perk, you’d think killers aren’t winning any matches after its release. It’s almost like it’s not overpowered and there are actually counters to it.
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Simply because literally all those things are already balanced against 100% movement speed.
The truth is, MFT IS the perk that counters everything (to a degree) killer got by reducing all those effectiveness massively, and it's not the other way around.
If you only look at numbers without actually understanding how game works, yeah you would think "anything can counter MFT so this is fine".
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Thats totally wrong or did you forgot the main in one of the swamp maps (dont know the name at the Moment) where you can run around three times and the Killer cant do #########, if the durv is smart.
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