Made for This Just Proves Survivors can't have Good Perk
Comments
-
Because boons subtract a perk slot from the user and add a weaker free perk to the team. Thats the whole reason CoH was overpowered, because the free perk wasn't weak at all. Meaning killers had to play vs teams with 19 perks just because ONE person sacrificed their own to bring a boon.
Boons should be weaker than perks.
3 -
Adrenaline is busted? 🤣 I mean this perk is in DbD from start to today. It was not busted for all of this time but now people realized it's so op? Camon! It's just killers can't handle any good survivor perk. People dropped CoH after last nerf and changed it with Adrenaline. And now Adrenaline is busted too lol. If you are looking to reason for laugh, laugh to this. Because this hilariously funny. And no, Adrenaline is not busted.
Yeah... Sorry for saying this but CoH is trash now my dude. Nobody uses it anymore. Thanks to killer mains who complained about it all time, we lost another perk.
This perk does not make catching survivor imposible. Killers have powers to use, remember? And plus bloodlust is still in game. So if you can't catch survivor even with 3% haste, it's you. There is no blame on perk.
Yeah, no again. Renato perks are garbage. And there is no use for them. I only saw them on people who was adepting Renato. And some uses was for tome challanges. His perks are terrible bad. That's why people are playing with old perks.
The only new perk started use by survivor is Made for This. And killers are already complaining about it.
Survivors are getting one decent perk. Killers = Omg, this perk is so op. Nerf! We need nerf!
And btw, i don't like perk nerfs from both sides if they are really not necessary. Like DH. They are just killing perks. 80% of perks from both sides have no use. Why? Because they are stupidly weak or nerfed to ground. We are keep getting poor quality content. Just look new killer, they somehow made weaker killer than Trapper.
7 -
I agree with you.
Haste perks needs cap. Or at least make them not stackable like endurance perks.
For your question, Dark Theory is terrible perk. But it does not req to be injured. And it does not deactivate when you are exhausted. And it gives haste effect to all survivors.
2 -
What do you mean it can't be paired with exhaustion? Literally any exhaustion perk save for sprintburst and overcome are good with mft, I can just use the speedboost to loop and if somehow I mess that up I can DH/lithe out of the problem, literally so much time waste, how can people not see how good of a combo that is, like yeah mtf wont be activated after you used dh/lithe but by that time any half decent player should have wasted time equivalent to two gen repairs.
Im literally comvinced this perk is like hyperfocus, people do not see how good it is because they are not good enough to use it, like under that pretence alch ring iri tag blight is A ok since I cannot hit a lethal rush.
Post edited by EQWashu on10 -
You can't use it with Lithe & SB, sorry for ruining this for you but you just can't.
SB is really hard to keep at 99% and for Lithe, you can't jump vaults because then you will lose both of your perks. If you can't jump vaults which means easy chase for killer.
DH is already dead perk. If DH has use with MfT, it's not too bad because just because you have DH, it does not mean you will activate it. Killer still can wait for out.
The only good combo BL & MfT but this alright because it's not easy to activate BL. You need to be near hill, second floor etc.
Post edited by EQWashu on2 -
How can you not use lithe with it, mtf deactivates with exhaustion so you just greed the pallet and when bloodlusts kicks in you vault, I dont see how this is not possible?
There are many loops where you are not forced to vault and can get tons of value from both perks, like high wall loops where you can just hug the loop until bl kicks in and the predrop and keep hugging or while the killer breaks use lithe.
9 -
The problem is that you just get it for free. Sure you can't use it with 2 out of the7-8 exhaustion perks but still doesn't matter when you basically have old dh for distance because of the way surv collision boxes are smaller. And killer exhaustion perks are hardly a counter to it with mind breaker being the best of them because it doesn't have some wacky requirement or is just plain bad because it needs fear monger to be good and thats 2 perks just to counter 1 set of perks where you don't even need exhaustion to do well in chase.
4 -
I can loop killer longer if i use vaults and pallets together.
Why i use MfT and Lithe together which will not allow me to jump? This is just bad combo to use.
0 -
I mean I get your point but being realistic the majority of survivors will benefit more from using the one extra loop mtf gives you and the time waste of lithe.
However you are right a good survivor can probably loop say a jungle gym with mft for like 60 s+ using vaults and no exhaustion, I just don't think its common from my soloq experience at the least.
2 -
Not going to disagree with you that survivors sometimes get the short end of the stick when it comes to perks but here the major thing you and many others need to remember about survivor perks vs killer perks. In a single match survivors only has to go against one type of perk(one pain res(4 uses), one Deadlock, and ect) but a killer has to worry about going against 4 of the same perk sometimes. DH for example was horrible to go against bc the chances of going against 3+ DHs was a pain. If it was only one DH on one survivor then DH wouldn't be that big of a issue. MFT is kinda like this. One MFT probably wouldn't be that big of a issue but if becomes meta a killer going to have to worry about 4 of them every single match. This is why I think survivors perks do need to be heavy regulated bc if a single perk becomes to op that powerful perk becomes 4 powerful perks each match.
6 -
If survivor use Lithe + MfT together, it's actually not bad for killer. Because when they jump, both perks will gone.
This combo not allow me to jump which is so bad. Loops are strong when you use pallets and vaults together. I just don't see this combo is good enough. However Hope + MfT is different topic, i think this need to be looked.
0 -
Because usage rate and actual strength are one and the same, right?
cough Twins cough
5 -
People tend to have strong opinions on strong perks, whoda thunk?
2 -
I on the opposite disagree, hope+made for this only takes effect on endgame and tbf the killer already has failed miserably at that point, so the survivors having that advantage for what little is left of the match is a non issue for me, also regarding m1 killers against that combo, if you play them you already accepted the loss at the character selection screen so perks being specially effective against them is just another thursday.
1 -
The person I was replying to was saying that survivors got 2-3 meta perks in the past year while killers only got 1 seemingly based on their personal feelings on the perks. I was pointing out the actual usage rates that seem to contradict the narrative.
I made no statements on strength other than what is implied based on the playerbase making logical choices when selecting their perks.
1 -
4 -
And "meta" concerns strength, not use rate. It quite literally stands for "most effective tactic available." What's your point?
2 -
Can you quantify what you mean by "strength" then? Do you have stats or any data to demonstrate what perks you think are best?
Obviously, usage rates don't directly correlate to what helps people win the most but since we don't have access to those kind of stats (or at least, I don't), we need something tangible to discuss or else it's all just personal feelings and anecdotes.
So, in general, can we agree that people will bring whatever helps them the most in to a trial? If so, usage rates can help paint a picture of what is currently being used as it has the perception of being the most helpful. That was all I was trying to convey.
1 -
That last paragraph is very often not the case. Sure, being perceived as strong will encourage people to use something, but between strong things that people don't want to use because they're hard to use, strong things that don't get used because they're boring, strong things that don't get used because people don't think or realize that they're strong, and—last but certainly not least—the decently high percentage of players who either a) deliberately avoid using strong things for the sake of fun, virtue, challenge, or b) simply are appealed to more by specific builds or playstyles that aren't meta—on top of a myriad of other incidentals that I didn't list, collecting a bunch of raw, unrefined numbers is not a strong or helpful correlate very often. Especially in this game where RNG is a powerful determinant on the outcome of a match and the matchmaking is so broken to the point where the vast disparity of players in a match is so common and horridly skews numbers all the time.
There's plenty of examples where if you correlate usage rate and strength, the numbers will lie. Self-Care is still one of the top three most used survivor perks, for example, even though you and I can agree that it's pretty much on life support and is basically a fifth killer perk 99% of the time. And like I said earlier, Twins: The least played killer in the entire game bar none even though most people agree they're very strong.
That all is to say: No, I don't trust the numbers in this game and instead rely on deducing the theoretical strength of something through my understanding of how the game works, practical strength through testing it myself, and debating these ideas with others—which is what we SHOULD be doing instead of just slapping arbitrary numbers up on the screen.
1 -
Reassurance isn’t META or even popular. I rarely see it. And Kinship is better. Next?
1 -
I tend to be a somewhat laid back killer. I try to win, but if I get my 3k comfortably having smoked the team, and 1 player clearly messed it up for everyone else, I'll usually go easy. If I get a strong lead, and everyone still tried to win and didn't give up, I'll usually let the last one get hatch, or even repair the last gen and get out the door.
However I saw that this one survivor was using this perk, and I had no mercy for him. It was such a pain in the ass to chase him throughout the whole game, I didn't bother and went for everyone else instead. At the end, I saw him and shut the hatch, and hunted his ass down, no matter how long it took.
The whole time going after him had no mind games, no clever fakes or loops, just run in a straight line and hopping windows, beelining for obstacles and breaking off to the next area.
You can say this perk is not Overpowered, maybe it is or isn't, not had enough experience to say, but it's a constant passive, and pretty brain dead. I won't use it as a survivor cause it's boring, and I'll show no mercy yo anyone I see running it, cause it isn't fun. It's dumb.
3 -
That’s because there’s 4 survivors and 1 killer… Why do people forget that DbD is asymmetrical? It’s never supposed to be balanced…
It is a huge migraine to play as killer, and you don’t feel rewarded anymore. Just exhausted. I’ve stopped killer since BBQ BP feature was removed. I would only tunnel players I didn’t catch for BP. Same as Survivor with WGLF. I went for bold plays and flashlight saves. Now I run Hyperfocus builds on gens for the escape bonus.
Instead of adding unstable perks like Eruption and Made For This… All these subpar, or trashy perks should be buffed. That, or grant huge BP gains to give players an incentive to use them over power. That’s what BBQ/WGLF did, and it was fine. Like Counterforce. For every totem you break you also get 20% stackable BP gains. This is Not Happening should also increase the odds of Skill Checks considerably while injured. No One Left Behind activates for 60 seconds when someone gets hooked, and stays in full effect after the gates are powered. Killers just need buffs to Distressing, and perks like Beast of Prey should allow 200% BP gains.
3 -
I don't care, my main thing is the perks are fun and in almost every chapter we get them
Everyone complains that there aren't many good perks
But I personally don't care if this perk is good or not, the most important thing is that it's fun (like teamwork perks I'm really enjoy it)
Obsessing over winning just isn't good (And this is what I see in this community)
So say that 80% of perks are bad is an exaggeration
2 -
Yeah, but old dead hard and sprint burst are literally the only two perks that I can think of where I'd say "geez another sprint burst" or "geez another dead hard".
I'd never say "oh c'mon they have any means necessary too" "another we'll make it, c'mon!"
0 -
Good perks are not a problem. Reassurance is still a good perk. Lithe and SB are good perks. Bond, We'll Make It, Hope, Adrenaline etc are good perks.
But Made For This is not good. It's gamebreaking. There is a reason the devs used to be very reluctant with any modifications to movement speed and the few modifiers we had were heavily restricted. Think about why they added Bloodlust for a minute. It is a band aid fix for a bigger issue and now they seriously released a perk that makes survivors 3% faster because the killer failed to down them in 1 hit. Ridiculous. Shack is already insanely hard to mindgame against any competent survivors but with +3% it's literally impossible. Pretty much all close hits (mostly hits a killer would get on a window or pallet) will not happen. Also, I've warned about this perk enabling some infinites and I was right. You do actually lose chase on some main buildings now.
That doesn't sound like a good perk to me. Broken and overpowered but not good.
4 -
That because those perks don't have a huge impact on the game at all. Any perk that gives the survivor a advantage in chase has to be balanced carefully since chasing is one of the most major components in the game. Same could be said about map design since if you make a map to safe it only adds to the problem. Gen perks both progression and regression are the same way since gen speeds is the other major part of the game. When you start making perks that affects speed of a character it overall has a huge effort in chase. Even a 3% haste means you can get to a pallet or window sooner than you would had before and that in turn makes the killer have to spend more time chasing you. If these types of perks become meta and are really strong it means now you most likely have to deal with 4 of them every match. 4 survivors who are 3% faster could mean chases lasting much much longer allowing gens being done undisturbed meaning really shorter games where the killer is powerless. If fact now I mention this all meta survivors perks don't affect all killers same either. MFT for example won't have any effect on nurse or blight since they so over power in movement that even a 3% boost isn't going to save you really but meanwhile it could have a huge effect on a trapper or other m1 killer since they greatly depend on the fact they slightly faster than a survivor to get downs. My point is there are things in this game that needs to be balance very carefully because of you make a chase perk way to strong or a regression perk way strong it mess up the whole game.
1 -
Agreed. Every time a good survivor perk comes out or even proposed (Look at Scavenger) killers will immediately complain and call for nerfs.
First COH and Dead Hard, Scavenger, now Made For This.
Yet killers get to keep most of their good perks, even when nerfed (Pain Resonance, Overcharge, Pop Goes The Weasel)
3 -
Really because you guys(not you in particular) complain plenty about every perk you mentioned.
I'm not being facetious at all here, but I want you to create a survivor perk that's both strong and acceptable by your standards for me. Can you do that?
Gen progression is op, health states are op, haste is op, aura reading is op, aura denial is op, end game perks are op.
So what's left? If this is how it's going to be everytime survivors get a new perk that's not trash how in the world are the devs going to create new ones going forward?
3 -
I sincerely wish this is just a "good perk" and not a perk that can literally counter every single aspect of the things killers have.
0 -
There is one big issue you overlooked. And that is likely why you believe all complaints about survivor perks are about their actual strength.
Picture this: The killer loses the game and is then rewarded with extra speed and permanent exposed status on survivors as long as a hex totem that only activated after the gens were finished remains (noed). Seems like a pretty stupid perk, right? Well, that's because it is! And yes, you see a lot of hate for noed as well. It's not overpowered but it's one of these perks nobody likes to play against.
The problem is not about the perk's actual strength (at least not completely) but how you activate a perk with such a strong effect and its restrictions. Noed is activated once the exit gates are powered. Made For This is activated once a survivor is injured. See the pattern here? The survivors / killer make the right play and get punished for that with no further restrictions or conditions to activate the perk. How is that acceptable? This is the main difference between Made For This and Dark Theory, which has a good effect but is so heavily restricted that it's basically useless (though these restrictions cannot easily be loosened without making the perk unfair).
Gen progression is a concept that should not be altered by perks at all. You either get something like Prove Thyself, Resilience, Deja Vu etc. (basically perks that will acitvate without you really doing anything for them and therefore becoming problematic) or Overzealous and Potential Energy (good perks but so heavily restricted, that they mostly fail to work in solo queue). Besides, we already have a problem with survivor efficiency but to explain that issue I'd need an entire thread. So I'll keep it short. A killer will not be able to reach the efficiency of survivors that just sit on different gens (or rush with Prove) without resorting to camping, tunneling and slugging because finding a survivor, chasing, hitting, downing and hooking them takes way longer than to repair gens (do the maths, you'll see what I mean).
Health states are not overpowered as long as they come with some restrictions. That was not the case with medkits and CoH, that allowed survivors to heal 4 injuries way quicker than a killer could ever hope to inflict even 1. The math doesn't work out here and shows why you cannot have every survivor be 100% efficient on their own. It again means a killer has no way to compete.
Haste is not an overpowered concept on itself as long as it has the right restrictions. Hope was pretty universally approved to be a good perk but not overpowered. Because it actually requires the survivors to do something to activate it just like Dark Theory (although admittedly that perk is too restricted). This is not the case with Made For This.
I have not seen anyone say something like "Aura reading is overpowered, pls nerf." yet. Not once. If you are referring to old Object of Obsession, I would advise you to watch some videos from that time. It really was that ridiculous. Wiretap on the other hand is a great perk, that unfortunately screws some killers way more than others (especially killers that already struggle). But I would argue it's not overpowered either.
I also have not seen anyone stating aura denial is overpowered. It is simply not the nicest thing to run. And what I have seen killer players state is something among the lines of: "Well, if I can't see your aura, I'll go for someone whose aura I can see, which basically makes me focus other survivors more increasing the odds of me tunneling." Again, not overpowered but an effect that encourages unhealthy gameplay.
End Game perks are not overpowered either. Because all of them have restrictions. No Way Out requires the killer to get hooks on different survivors to get useful, noed can be cleansed and is even highlighted, Hope requires survivors to finish all 5 gens and at least 1 survivor to play with only 3 perks up until that point and Blood Warden requires the killer to get a hook while the exit gates are open and at least 2 survivors remain in the trial to do anything. What, if you removed the restrictions from Blood Warden? That would make this perk rather stupid and arguably overpowered because it basically guarantees kills.
A fine perk in my opinion is SB. It's a perk that requires you to be mindful of managing your exhaustion, can backfire when you use it prematurely (you literally waste your exhaustion and risk getting caught without it later on) and it has some counters but is also strong enough to still be viable and good. Also, it is a perk that is pretty strong on it's own but doesn't have great synergy with a lot of perks (besides Vigil), which prevents many unfair scenarios from happening.
Sorry for the lengthy post but this is quite a complex issue.
4 -
The problem of Made for This is not the perk itself but combining it with Hope.
0 -
Survivors can have good perks, it's just that broken perks are the only perks people consider good.
CoH, Dead Hard, Made For This were/are all broken perks. Nerfs were deserved. And Dead Hard is still a really good perk. It's just not busted anymore so people consider it bad.
Same with Lucky Break. A really good perk that got nerfed from it's busted state so now everyone just assumes it's bad. It's not, it's a really good perk. Fogwise and Reassurance are also good, but again no one runs them because they aren't as powerful as the top tier perks.
Hyperfocus is also really good but it requires skill which most survivors honestly lack so it doesn't see much use.
There are tons of pretty good or decent survivor (and killer) perks that see no use because why run them when the top tier perks are so powerful?
If perks have to be busted in order to have a chance at being meta, then that kinda shows how strong meta perks are.
Also, Windows, OtR, Distortion, and now Deja Vu received buffs and became good not that long ago, so yes, survivor can have good perks just not broken ones.
12 -
MFT and Resilience turns some loops into infinites even with bloodlust on a 4.6m Killer without Hope in play.
If people think this is acceptable, then I have nothing to say.
5 -
The problems with really strong survivor perks, is all survivors are the same.
If there was a limit of 1 copy of a perk for the whole team, then MFT wouldn't be so bad, but the fact everyone can run it means that putting such a powerful tool in survivor hands, means they can all abuse its power...
There shouldn't ever really be a perk on survivor that everyone values over all others... and be honest, would you ever not take MFT on survivor?
1 -
The activation condition of being injured is one the things that made old dh dumb. If you're in chase and not injured you're winning anyway. It makes chasing more of a lose/lose siuation for the killer.
1 -
I just want to say that there are over a dozen complaint threads circulating about Sprint Burst being ‘OP.’ Now prior to DH receiving its most recent nerf I don't recall seeing anyone complain about SB, Lithe, or any other exhaustion perk (except the occasional gripe about Head On being annoying). So if we use these complaints by killer mains, then SB is now suddenly overpowered. Do you think it’s a coincidence killer mains are saying this now?
3 -
Lmao. CoH and Dead Hard were completely broken. That's why we complained about them. Your argument about survivors not being able to have good perks also applies to killer. All of our very strong perks got nerfed. I reckon the only strong perk currently is Deadlock. The rest of the meta perks are balanced/only decent.
Killer did get many good perks recently but that's because we had almost none before that. Remember that almost every killer was running some Hex Ruin build in the past because there were literally no other good perks.
Also, don't know why people are saying No Where to Hide is a good perk. It's a B tier perk that very few killers run.
Post edited by adsads123123123123 on5 -
I frequent forums quite a bit and barely see anything about SB, more killers think it's fair than not, at least compared to old DH.
MFT itself is a problem, no perk on either side should have easily accessible haste, period. This game's balance is far too fragile for it. Machine Learning has a heavy set of instructions to follow to activate, Play With Your Food loses tokens on hit, and heck I can agree on letting NOED not grant it but it at least has the excuse of being a Hex that can be cleansed/preemptively stopped by doing bones. MFT? Just get hurt and as long as you know how to loop and hold W you win against M1 killers, especially the slower ones.
Heck, it should grant haste per survivor slugged or something, THAT would be more balanced.
1 -
Oh, how interesting. I’m here quite often too and see a multitude use of complaints about SB. I might go and just collect links to those topics so you can read them since you’ve seemingly missed them.
2 -
Is Adrenaline op too? Lithe & SB are broken? Because now killers are complaining about these perks. Looks like you guys never stop complain about survivor perks. Whenever devs nerf something, you are just going to next.
2 -
You're still missing the point, and this isn't about SB in the first place. The general consensus about SB is it's fair because it's got a cooldown, can easily be misused and people who want to save it have to hold a 1 second exhaust or walk everywhere. MFT only requires being hurt which good players learn to play around already.
2 -
Let's be real, both sides are exactly the same in that regard, neither any better than the other.
7 -
I have not seen that. If you would be so kind, please show me a few of the more recent discussions about SB. I find it hard to believe that I missed this because I'm quite active on the forums. Of course there is always the odd one out who believes anything their opponent has is overpowered but really the last time I've seen a discussion about SB was about how well it measured up against DH. And most people agreed that SB is fine and by far not as ludicrous as DH used to be. Annoying and very strong? Yes. But definitely not overpowered.
Also, please stop making this about killer player entitlement. This is not a one sided issue. There have been just as many complaints about killer perks (for a while it even matched DH complaints). I reckon the only reason we don't see many complaints about killer perks right now is because the last few nerfs to these perks all ended up killing whatever meta BHVR introduced. OverBrine and Eruption are good examples of this. So at least for now there isn't really one perk that sticks out for killers. Although that might change soon, who knows?
There will always be complaints about the strongest things in the game, no matter how strong or weak they might be. But I think that most of us here, would agree that SB is fine.
5 -
Because that's a very idealistic combo that in an actual match rarely works as well.
You can't vault for your entire first hit or you waste your MfT. Which more often then not leads to you handicapping yourself desperatly trying to make this combo work.
Then when injured you also just happen to have vaultless loops available to get actual vallue out of MfT.
And when you actually get that then you just happen to have a vault available to make use of Lithe when you need it.
It's inconsistant, clunky and the mayority of the time you'd be better off only focussing on one of the perks instead of handicapping yourself trying to both make them work.
The only exhaustion perk that works well with MfT is Dead hard cause the condition for it are the same.
Sorry but for me people who say Lithe works with MfT are people who don't play survivor that often and go about theory crafting without having a realistic grasp on how actual matches go
0 -
if you think that a perk that literally makes 50/50 tiles into a 75/25 against m1 killers and also gives you even more benefits than Dark theory itself its fine just look at this:
All Survivors benefit from the following effects when inside the Boon Totem's radius:
- 2 % Haste Status Effect.
- This effect lingers for 2/3/4 seconds after leaving the Boon Totem's range.
meanwhile MFT only requirement is being injured + also gives you a endurance effect on top of healing someone , busted perk IMO.
making already stronger loops into god setups and god setups into infinites is just terrible design buddy , Im sorry but the argument of saying that "MFT proves that survivor cant have
bustedgood perks" sound pretty entitled and bad if we want a healthier gameplay because if you are bad with the perk thats good no worries there BUT there is people that are good at the game and they can really get insane value out of it and even abuse it to the point where is just stupid and unfair for m1 killers, that how it is.from 3:36 / 6:24 and soo on you can literally see how much of a difference this perk makes , that ace should be already downed if it wasnt because that 3% gave him enough distance to reach another tile , and the same applies to other maps as well , but instead he make it to the tile and not only that he was taking even more value from the car loop when that shouldnt be the case with a perk so easy to trigger. (also Im not a fan of true , but this is where the perks shows how broken it is on good hands honestly)
4 -
a 20% difference at pallets, as a matter of fact.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/379653/did-the-math-on-mft#latest
1 -
I don't watch Tru3, thank you so much. Next.
4 -
Don't apologize for writing a lot, I enjoy hearing other perspectives and opinions.
In regards to NOED/Injury:
The killer isn't being punished for landing a hit, they are rewarded with removing an entire healthstate. I feel as though people are still continuing to underrate injury. Pre-healing nerfs and pre-DH nerf I would understand the point of view a lot more. But right now, especially if the killer is running hemorrhage/mangled, the survivor has no way of healing again unless they find a teammate or use their single-use medkit. That is huge value for the killer as it removes a lot of gen pressure.
The 3% haste is a very strong bonus, I have never downplayed the strength of it, but I struggle to find it gamebreaking, because most players will not know how to get value out of this perk. It doesn't make you invincible, otherwise no one would ever go down using Hope. Can good players make the most out of it? Absolutely, but most players are bad. The claims that killers are struggling every single game vs this perk are farfetched, and the claims that everyone can become good loopers with this perk is false. If out of every 30 games you go against one or two survivors that make your life hell with this perk where the rest of the users are easily crushed, is that truly gamebreaking? If so, then virtually every meta perk for survivors could follow the same logic for needing nerfs as well.
Resilience is gamebreaking because good survivors will know exactly when to vault and bait a missed swing that would otherwise be a hit due to vault speed, good survivors will also forgo healing, negating the killer's pressure, and do gens even faster. It is also a permanent boost to every action just for getting hit.
Adrenaline is gamebreaking because good survivors will see the final gen being close to completion and bait the killer into a fruitless chase then get an uncounterable speedboost and healthstate in a matter of seconds, which is even worse if they're playing in a SWF and multiple adrenalines go off.
The counterplay to MFT against good players is to move away from bloodlusting hold W killer gameplay, and to get better at cutting chases short with zoning, mindgames, and good power usage. Why do I say this? Because this counterplay already exists for a similar perk, Hope.
To me, NOED isn't comparable because its simply a comeback mechanic, that announces itself and reveals the totem. Does it feel cheap sometimes, sure, but that's the nature of a PVP game. The only nerf to NOED I'd want to see is that the totem moves if the killer lingers next to it, as hooking near noed is gg. But otherwise its fine, there is plenty of counterplay.
In regards to Gen Speed/Healthstates,
I agree completely that they need to be heavily regulated or just shouldn't exist, the healing nerfs sucked, but I've grown to fully accept why they needed to happen. It isn't without consequence though, as that's an entire subsection of perks that the Devs can never make good perks for. Further restricting their creative space. In an ideal world, survivors are supposed to be 1/4th the strength of the Killer, and rely on teamwork to make them strong, but teamwork is not easy in this game and the devs know this, which is why some perks make a survivor a lot better as an individual. These perks need to continue to exist and be strong otherwise soloqueue will be miserable, and adding communication tools to basekit survivor isn't really feasible.
MFT is just another perk that aligns with this design goal, being enhanced in chase gives my team more time to recover/reset and it feels good being able to have such an impact on the game if I play well. This makes me want to continue to play more, and makes soloqueue less of a pain.
Does this mean that SWFs will be super strong? Of course, and there isn't really a lot of counters to a good SWF for most killer players, but that's a pill you have to swallow because good SWFs are much more rare than bad players.
In regards to Aura-Reading/Denial
When Wiretap had its minute in the spotlight for a bit, I did see plenty of complaints, the only reason why I feel it wasn't a big thing is because gen kicking countered it, and we were in a gen kicking meta. If 3-4 players were running wiretap every game, the complaints would return I'm sure.
Distortion also gets complained about constantly, as you said, its considered a "buzzkill" perk by some people.
Its inevitable that everything will get complained about, but there are definitely ways to make even innocuous perks in this game seem unhealthy/overpowered, so I would like people to be more careful in wording their thoughts. Calling things broken or gamebreaking when they're just strong creates a very janky feedback loop for the developers who may occasionally use player feedback.
Examples of Gamebreaking:
Nurse- Ignores fundamental rules of the game, has extremely minimal counterplay that relies on user error rather than skill of opponents.
Original DH- Ignores fundamental rules of the game, I-frames are something survivors should never have gotten.
MFT does not fall into this criteria at all, thus it isn't gamebreaking to me.
Final thoughts (Sprint Burst:)
All of the reasons you cite for it being a good perk are why I dislike it, its only strong in very edge cases, extremely clunky to use, and very punishing. People cite it as the best exhaustion perk, but I feel like practicality adds to a perk's strength as well, DH was so loved because it was extremely practical (and strong of course), and could work in virtually every build. I don't think SB is good unless you pair it with Fixated/Vigil. I would not want more perks to be like SB personally, perks that fit in most builds add a lot more to build diversity.
1 -
I’m not missing the point. You actually inserted yourself into a discussion without reading through it. If you had, you might have known my comment referencing SB was in response to someone else specifically saying they believe the perk is fine, as a killer-main, and me asking why they believe so many killer mains on this forum complain about it. Stay out of the koolaid if you don’t know the flavor. 🤷♀️
1 -
Survivors can get good perks, but MFT and CoH are and were complettly overpowert. After CoH release you could play legion and you could be in Frenze for infinit minutes because you can heal faster that the killer can hit, but it was totally fair Right. Also every time the dev want to make changes the killer perks get stomped while the survivor perks are still playable. Like CoB, Overcharge, Ruin are basicly dead and DH, CoH, BK are still very good perks
3
