Convince me why slugging for the 4k is needed
Just had a game yesterday where the killer slugged Leon who I got up and then me. He both camped us hoping the other survivor would go for a save. Leon just started working on the last gen while I was down, but then he went to find him. Needless to say, the killer couldn't catch Leon for the whole 4 mins I was slugged on the ground, but he still ended with a 4k.
Now I want you to convince me how such a killer is skilled and he deserves the 4k if he spent 5 whole minutes maybe more (including Leon being slugged before me) being unable to close the game at 4k and why something like this should be allowed and award an auto 4k.
Comments
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Your story has both the Leon on the ground being camped with you and also on gens. Killer couldn't camp the both of you while waiting for another Survivor if you weren't both on the ground together at some point.
You had Schrodinger's Leon and still lost.
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Killer adepts and some archives require 4ks. As long as they remain in the game there needs to be a way to avoid hatch being an issue.
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*Other survivor leaves you on the ground*
"damn that killer for slugging me!"
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What can the other survivor do if killer is either on top of me, or found Leon? You tell me.
Plus Leon got me up and killer just hit me as soon as my animation getting up finished.
Do you have something better to do in that case?
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Does that mean proxy camping also counts as Schrodinger's, you camp while also not camping at the same time.
The thing is that the killer slugged Leon first, I got Leon up (and killer was staying pretty close to Leon therefore camping). Then I got downed and Leon went to work on a gen. For a while killer was camping me and hoping I would slug towards Leon and following me, then he went and found Leon.
But sure, go ahead and don't address the state of slugging at 2 survivors left. It's easier to do that than actually offer a real argument on why it's ok for a killer to get a guaranteed 4k when he needs 5 mins to close out the 4k👌
But when survivors get all 5 gens done we still have to hear that end has not ended and killer can still even then get 3k-4k despite getting crushed all game.
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Only for adepts and challenges, or if the survivor team was particularly obnoxious and some justice is being dished back.
Otherwise it's just player ego or lashing out at weaker teams for being belittled in their previous game (the helpless taking it out on the helpless, it's creepy how common that mindset is even on the survivor side).
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This.
Also, 4K is sometimes a bit greedy and thirsty for a big win, but its the equivalent of 3 survivors "just leaving" instead of resetting and then escorting their buddy on the hook towards the exit gates, while the killer can do nothing, unless they have an instadown mechanic. Why do this survivors need to E4 so badly? Can't they just leave and let the killer keep their measly 1K?
Its human nature to capitalize on a powerful situation and wanting to dominate, if the total victory is easily within grasp.
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Because the killer wants to slug for a 4k and the game allows it.
No further reasoning is required.
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The question didn't pertain to the legitimacy of the act of slugging for the 4k, it was to the reasons as to why some killers do it as if it's a necessity. Reasons were given.
The game also allows groups of friends to endlessly click and tbag lesser skilled players. They want to do it and the game allows it. Doesn't change the fact that it's annoying and people ask why it's necessary for this to happen.
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"As if its a necessity" is assuming the killer's pov. There could be any reason to slug for the 4k, but it boils down to because the killer wants to.
The same could be applied to tbagging and clicking. There is no current solution to this behavior that doesn't hinder gameplay, so the game allows it.
They just need an option to go next if you're slugged, and remove collision if you have crows. Then there will be no way to hold either side hostage.
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Well since it sounds like it was a 3v1 situation it was deemed to lose because no matter what there would be 2 people downed even if you chain picked up.
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While I don't disagree with you, simplifying things to 'because they want to' just feels a like a full-stop to what can be an interesting conversation to help understand why things are the way they are. If we simplified everything to 'because people want to', there'd be very little to discuss when it comes to human psychology and why people make certain choices. For some it's obvious, for others it isn't.
That says you are right and none of these actions are actually condemnable. I fully agree with your suggestions. Same with a killer being immobile for too long, they should lose collision.
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Should have pushed them off of you.
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I usually do it for unbreakable or any other pick up perks. The game should immediately give a bleed out prompt to those who been down for a while.
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this has been a boring strategy since endgame collapse was added and they’ve never bothered to fix it
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adepts. or just they don't want to see the last survivor squat on the hatch/at the gate
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Gotta get that adept and after a few games where you miss it by this much, hell breaks free. And if I listened to my bias I'd say you don't know need to wait when you open the gate but you still do, so eat the dirt.
But I'm not gonna say it because tribalism is bad
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Why should the game allow it? That's the question.
Game used to allow all survivors to get out through hatch at some point in time.
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It's the only counterplay to the rng of the hatch
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What's the counterplay to slug for the 4k for survivors that's basekit then? Hiding in lockers?
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Either hiding until the killer picks up the survivor or they bleed out
I'm not saying I like it but it's true, many tome challenges, achievements and so on require a 4k so slugging for it is the only sure fire way to maximise your chances
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Killers who are going for the 4k don't pick up though, so you have to hide for the whole duration of the slug.
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Some killers will leave someone on the ground as bait to lure you into going for the pickup. I do it if I need the 4k for some particular reason.
Others will delay pickup until the bleedout timer is nearly over or just bleed them out if they are feeling particularly petty/don't care about the full sacrifice points
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Killer is supposed to be the power role according to the devs. So it most likely is due to the killer being the one that dictates the pace and tone of the game.
Don't get me wrong I detest slugging immensely. But until it gets changed (its basically confirmed its getting changed) people should focus on what they can do to minimize the impact slugging has on them rather than try to convince killers to not slug out of kindness imo.
For me, if I see that I'm getting slugged until I bleedout I just tab out of the game or go use the restroom, by the time I'm finished I'm dead anyways.
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So you crawled to your team mate on a gen whilst the killer was camping the slug?
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Because you needs 4k for iridescent emblems and there is lot of achievement/challenges that require 4k.
Can you convince me why killers shouldn't get consistent 4k in winning match with lot of additional effort?
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We have my basement Bubba. No needs for slugging period.
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Because you'll wait on the hatch to teabag until I come find you so you can jump in
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Because hatch exist as a get out of jail free RNG card that can just screw the killer out of 50% of their win (3 and 4k only are wins).
One bad mechanic causes another in this case.
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Can't the exact same be said for NOED?
If survivors do all 5 gens why should a perk allow the killer to undo his bad decisions for the last 10 minutes?
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Is it additional effort when you need 4 mins to catch the last kill? You were gonna catch him anyway with Bloodlust. Ity's the game who handed him to you, it's not you who got him if it took you so long.
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Chances are you'll find it first tbh.
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If the killer was bad, y’all should have no problem looping him long enough to do the gens and 5 totems, especially since they’re only playing most of the match with 3 perks.
Even if you’re too lazy to cleanse them, you can wait for the 5th gen to pop and it’ll light up like a disco ball making it easy to spot.
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Yeah, I'm sure if I played in a SWF no totems would make it to end game, but as it is I am not and I cannot control my teammates. Try harder next time with your answer, thx.
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I only play SoloQ and unless my team royally screwed up, the killer doesn’t get more than 1 down with NoED.
If your team fails against NoED, it’s not a problem with NoED, the killer or the game, it’s a problem with you and your teammates, regardless of whether it’s Solo Queue or SwF.
git gud.
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i like the number 4 more than the number 3
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"Just hook it and go afk" vs "down it, find the last survivor, chase him, down him, hook him, and hook original survivor you've downed seconds (or minutes) ago"?
Yeah of course, it is a lot of additional effort, it doesn't really matter whether game handed it to you or not (because by that time your game is won anyway), but even then for most of time you don't even need 4 minutes, it'll end quicker.
Why game has to hand free escape for already losing side? when that mess with lot of game mechanics? your reasoning seems to be nonexistent.
Ah so you are saying hatches should be a perk? I actually agree with it, I wish lot of survivors to play with 3 perks.
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That's like saying "I am not racist cause I have black friends" and then proceeding to say a racist thing anyway.
First you claim the way to counter NOED is for your whole team to cleanse the totems, which requires co-ordination that solo doesn't have. Then you tell me to "git gud" when the game's matchmaking is ######### and survivors of hugely different skill levels are matched.
That's again a great argument there. Can't even admit that certain strategies are strompers for solo just gotta say "git gud". Kinda sad killers couldn't wait out dead hard like the good ones.
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We have two counters to NOED today.
A. if you have lot of times because killer is so bad, just cleanse all totems.
B. if you don't have lot of times or failed to cleanse all totem for some reason, run like a headless chicken after 5 gens popped and you will find it unless you are legally blind and can't see aura.
It definitely doesn't really matter whether you are solo or not, especially latter one.
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Why does NOED exist then? You already lost the game if you made it to end game with no deaths and survivors finished all 5 gens. Heck, don't even try just afk in a corner in that case, you were losing all game, why should you have the chance to turn a loss into a win? Don't start arguing over good survivors etc. That's bullshit. Just explain to me why a perk to undo your mistakes exists. I thought we hated second chance perks for the same reason.
Just like survivors have to play perfectly till the end, killers should have the same risk. Either secure the 3k and be happy with your win even if one escapes, or risk it all for the 4k and actually have a risk to make out with only 2k. What's so hard to understand about that? Survivors hear all the time the game doesn't end when all 5 gens are done, why should the game end when 2 survivors are left?
Killers who take too long to close out the game should have increased risk of throwing their win. Slugging for the 4k should not be a low risk high reward strategy. It should have more risk involved to it.
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I didn't know I was playing all 4 survivors at once, but thanks for letting me know.
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Why? NOED is a perk, period, I don't even care if NOED got removed anyway, it doesn't even turn "a loss into a win" because any decent (yes, decent, doesn't even need to be smart) survivors can easily cleanse NOED today.
And killers always do have the risk even if they go for "slug 4k", like it's not very uncommon to find someone who running unbreakable and gets up RIGHT AFTER THE KILLER HOOKED A SURVIVOR, so they can have a hatch, it's survivors who decided to end the game by not taking proper counter perks.
And yes, they still have an increased risk for throwing wins because more time takes for 2 survivors left = less time it takes to finish up gens, it's very much possible to just finish up a gen and get to the gate, with 2 survivors, especially with perks like hope/MFT or adrenaline.
I didn't know you can't find a totem that is broadcasting an aura of himself by 24meter radius, I suppose you knew it's existence right?
it's not like a hex totem equip distortion to be stealthy, NOED is extremely easy to spot.
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A survivor getting hatch doesn't mean the killer lost or even tied with the survivors. The risk of slugging for the 4k should be the killer ending up with 2 kills, not with what is essentially considered a win. It's like complaining you got a gold medal but didn't break a world record.
You also know the killer can just hook the survivor and slug people close to his NOED right? And protect both the totem and his hook/slug(s).
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But with 2 survivors dead, and more than 2 gens are remaining, any other outcome beside killer winning doesn't really makes sense, your opinion doesn't have reasoning as in why, like why are you getting mad when you see killers are trying to break a world record right after getting a gold medal? that seems pretty reasonable, and they still have to work for it.
If you seriously consider that extremely low chance occurrence as a "risk", just run detective's hunch and counterforce, you can easily take out every totems yourself.
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I thought it was taboo to advice people to run a perk to deal with the game's inherent flaws.
So basically for every broken strategy that works against solo I have to run a specific perk or heck even a specific build to deal with it? Killer is 3-genning? Oh well should have brought a gen perk after all. Killer is slugging? Should have brought Unbreakable. Killer is camping? Should have brought Reassurance.
The flaws are in the game design itself. it's easy for killers to see that when it comes to SWF and scream about unfairness, but suddenly for all the unfairness SWF brings to the table for killers they're suddenly always quiet when it comes to solo survivor and use arguments that are the equivalent of "wait out dead hard" (which killers hated).
Just give us a ping system so we can co-ordinate and maybe not run perks that are useless 9/10 times. If you're ok with killers wanting to win by 4k then you should be able to understand the sentiment of survivors also wanting to 3 or 4 escape even as solos. Bringing incredibly niche perks isn't how you do it though, it's by bringing perks that will be useful 10/10 games not 1/10 games. I don't understand either what's so difficult to understand about that, you're ok with killers using BASEKIT strategies (excluding NOED obviously, but camping, slugging and tunneling are not hidden behind a perk) and your suggestion is basically "bring this perk that only works in this highly specific scenario". Uhh ok I guess I can see you are not biased at all.
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There is no way to remove slugging from the current game without making any mechanic abusable by survivors. The basekit unbreakable was shown to be a horrible idea and wasn't even meant to counter slugging anyway. It was intended to prevent strong speedy killers from quickly slugging a whole team and closing out a match with the finisher mori.
The only real thing they could do would be to get rid of stationary hooks altogether. Instead have the entity pop up a hook when you down someone and then it autohooks them. But that would remove any chance of pallet/flashie saves, sabos, wiggling and a whole bunch of perks etc.
It comes down to agency and strats. They're using a strat to play around the hatch mechanic, or perhaps they're trying to draw the last person out. Doesn't matter, point is it's their choice and it's in the game. Just like survivors can choose to 99 gates (personally I think they should regress, it's stalling the game at the end) because they just HAVE to get a 4 out and deny the killer a measly 1k. Or the douchebagging in the gates or on top of the hatch, I mean seriously if you've won just leave. But again they can choose to do it and nothing in the game prevents them from doing so.
For what it's worth, I don't personally find slugging that big a deal in my survivor games. Happens sometimes but so what? Worst case I go next in 4 minutes (almost never happens). But I do think a bleed out button would be a good idea, after say 60 secs on the ground, you get the option to bleed out there and then.
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The whole team doesn’t have to spend time cleansing totems. You can play cautiously and just not get caught when the fifth gen pops and then look for the disco totem.
One person can use one perk that lets them know where totems are and how many are left. One person, out of four, can equip one perk out of a combined 16 perks, to counter one killer perk.
Maps are also a thing. If you don’t have any, Plunderers is a great perk to hoard them.
Game should not be balanced around bad solo-queue players. The game should be balanced around players who know how to play. If it’s bad teammates you have a problem with, then ask the devs to improve matchmaking, not easily countered killer perks. Barring that, you’re more than welcome to form a swf.
In the end, git gud.
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It is not, DbD toxic community at its finest.
Honestly i always grab and hook the down survivor when there are only 2 left and i stop to play to leave the 4th escaping.
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I only ever intentionally short term slug, not for purposes of letting anyone bleed out - and even then there’s always a reason. Usually it’s because there’s another survivor hovering around nearby that has proven to be skilled at flashlight or flash bang saves earlier in the match. Letting survivors bleed out is boring for both sides and I’ve only ever done it when they’ve crawled off and I literally can’t track them down.
The one exception to this is if they’re being really successful with flashlight saves and are playing cocky. Kind of a ‘fine, you don’t like it when I pick your friends up - I won’t pick anyone up.’ sort of thing. I’ll let someone wiggle after a few moments of head shaking once I think they’ve learned their lesson and heal everyone. Same strat I use when people are getting EMP spammy and I’m on Singularity. You don’t like my pods? How about an M1 train - that work better for you?
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Because its not against the game rules and if a player wants to go for a 4k, which they are allowed to do, then slugging the 3rd player over hooking them gives them more time to do so.
Your own example demonstrates this, the killer had a 4 min window to catch the last survivor and they needed it so slugging the 3rd was the best play at the time.
You simultaneously asked and answered your own question.
Did they deserve the win?... well... yeah they do... the killer stuck it out for the whole chase and caught the last survivor while you bled out... so yes kudos to them for catching everyone.
They made the sensible play to slug and give themselves as much time as possible to catch the last survivor.
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