Why doesn't Wraith have the same QoL features as Sadako?
Wraith gets stunned longer in stealth. Sadako doesn't.
Wraith can't pick survivors up while stealthed. Sadako can.
Until recently, Wraith could get light burned out of stealth while Sadako couldn't.
Given Wraith is a low tier killer, I don't see why he doesn't have these QoL changes too.
Comments
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I believe the answer to your question lies in the fact that
A. Wraith moves Significantly faster in stealth, Sadako doesnt.
B. Sadako has a lullaby, Wraith doesnt.
Its a balance.
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Sadako can literally kill you with no hooks as well lol.
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Wraith can go Bing Bong, Sadako doesn’t.
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I wouldn't be against Wraith being able to pickup downed Survivors tho
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Wraith is such a better killer than Sadako. Giving him the things that make Sadako unique would just bump her even lower.
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The one qol Wraith should have is being able to pick up while cloaked
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Ha! Speak for yourself! My Wraith is completely silent! 🙃
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Bruh. OnePumpWille has a 200 win streak with her on this patch.
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Ok? He slugs hella hard and sweats harder than 99% of players. Doesn’t change the fact she’s a bottom three killer in the game and that Wraith is objectively better.
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So you're saying you can get a 200 win streak with Wraith?
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Wraith is in a WAY better spot than Sadako and is not low-tier.
The reason he is stunned longer is to add counterplay to his Cloak. He moves faster, is almost completely invisible and is nearly silent.
I would not be against allowing him to pick up and instantly de-cloak. However, this isn't a high priority as he is already in a good spot, unlike Sadako, who is almost useless with a certain add-on combination
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Otz considers him one of the bottom killers. See https://youtu.be/LJSjlGcjc78?t=2h33s. I know he rates Sadako lower but that's because the rating isn't based on Condemn playstyle.
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No? These dudes go on insane win steaks because they have 8000+ hours in the game, not because of the killer they play. And Willie most definitely could go on a 200+ with Wraith.
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Otz' opinion isnt fact.
Dont get me wrong tho, he has a lot of good takes that I find myself agreeing with a lot of the time.
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Otz is wrong.
His kit is perfectly suited to the current meta. I'd give him a spot near High B-tier.
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Yes, and as an avid viewer of his streams he plays to win and incredibly sweaty, also in 200 games or so I can count on my hand how many decent team he faced, he mostly masacres people who are not really good at the game.
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I think that's mostly fine. I don't see why they would want to change these parts about him.
I'd rather see them adjust his lunge again. Even when you're already in licking distance you only hit them with the very tip of a lunge after uncloaking. That doesn't feel right.
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Yeah, I am someone who plays a lot of Sadako (my highest prestige killer), and agree with this. Especially with the visual terror radius in play.
I don't know that I'd say Wraith is much better than Sadako, but he is better, especially right now. He's also easier to play; he'd be my top recommendation for someone trying killer for the first time. Pretty forgiving, pretty much plug and play.
Wraith is nearly totally silent in cloak, and has high mobility.
Sadako has a lullaby (which is super boosted by the visual terror radius), and while she can TP, it has restrictions and clear counterplay.
If you don't use the slug/condemned playstyle (which really isn't fun for anyone, and I don't do it), playing Sadako is work against decent+ survivors. Wraith is pretty effective and simple to use unless you're facing really good survs.
Playing as a surv, I'd much rather face a Sadako (most of them, anyway) than a Wraith. Her kill rate is boosted by the fact that many people who use her are sweaty specialists who employ a lame strat.
One of these two needs a rework, and it isn't the Wraith.
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The increased stun is needed since he gets kicked out of stealth when stunned. Otherwise you could just use Enduring + Spirit Fury and get an instant uncloak.
Picking up survivors while cloaked is a good change that I’ve been wanting for a while. He can already do that with lockers anyway, so I don’t see why picking up downed survivors is a problem. Just have him uncloak during the pick up animation.
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As a Wraith main I have to agree. He's in a good spot and I hope the Devs will never touch him again.
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I would agree if onryo was anywhere as strong as wraith is. She is really not. If anyone out of those killers needs buff or qol, its her not wraith lol
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Nah. I've tested a lot of Wraith and I agree with Otz's C tier rating of Wraith. Condemn Onyro is definitely stronger than Wraith.
Wraith is decent on most maps but there are some maps he is extremely bad on. The main issue with Wraith is he has nothing to shorten a chase in a loop, so if survivors aren't stupid and run the loop instead of pre-dropping instantly, it becomes very difficult to win. People only think Wraith is strong because most survivors are stupid and will just wait a pallet to drop it while you uncloak instead of looping it. Wraith is mainly strong on maps with few pallets. He struggles significantly on maps where:
- there are many pallets
- loops can be chained
- the map is too narrow for Wraith to overtake survivors and body block them
Examples of terrible maps for Wraith are: Borgo, Lery's, Mother's Dwelling, The Game, Midwich (depending on your build), and Garden of Joy.
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Well no ######### Condemned Sadako is stronger than Wraith, its one of the stronger builds in the game period.
That being said, if we allow Sadako to use her strongest build its only fair to let Wraith use his strongest build. And with that Sadako is still stronger yes, but its not like Wraith is a push over.
You mentioned that hes not a great chaser but heres the thing, Sadako aint either. In fact shes a worst chaser since she doesnt have a way to shorten the gap or deal with pallets. Wraith has movement speed built into his kit and add ons to deal with pallets.
So what do you do with both of them? You dont chase. They are purely hit and run and thats where they both shine the most. What I believe Wraith has over Sadako, is a better chase and less map dependency. Wraiths performance is fairly consistent since his (little) anti loop and mobility dont have any restrictions unlike killers like Billy or Oni.
He's a jack of all trades which makes him possibly the least map dependant killer in the game, yes there are maps that hes not as good, but those maps are typically bad killer maps to begin with. All of the maps you mentioned are all terrible for basically any killer (except Lery's and... Midwich!??) and Wraith is no exception.
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Wraith is fine on The Game.
And yeah, duh Condemned Sadako is stronger than Wraith. Condemned is stronger than a LOT of Killers
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So, you're saying his hit and run build is stronger than C tier? I don't think so. The maps I mentioned are hard for most killers but for Wraith, it's much worse and almost guaranteed loss against good survivors.
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With the right set of add ons yes, I used to main him and still play my fair share of him. Ive gone against plenty of good teams and Wraith is not one of the killers I dont feel confident with going against a team of high hour players.
Also Lery's and Midwich are probably 2 of his best maps considering his mobility isnt hampered and has plenty line of sight blockers.
Even The Game is pretty decent for him for the sole reason of LoS blockers, and being able to get a hit before they can even reach a pallet.
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because wraith actually benefits from being cloaked a lot. Sadako just gets undetectable, a slow when uncloaking for no speed up, and a lullaby+visual tr that makes her power near pointless.
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Wraith isn't low tier to start with, which doesn't matter cause tiers are a player assessment rather than development metric.
Wraith in general was just made with a different design ethos at the time and honestly the QoL stuff he actually has gotten has been tailor made to fit him specifically rather than just slapping on general things Sadako can do. Lightburn was a mechanical counterplay that was somewhat necessary back in the early days when the game was stealth focused and less chase oriented. Now there are betters ways to deal with Wraith and any other killer who had lightburn as feature. Wraith picking people up while in cloaked would be hilarious, but he'd also be doing wind sprints while carrying survivor which is a power reserved for Agitation. Wraith's stealth is just all around better than Sadako's so you gotta add some sort of soft counter to take the edge off him some so a longer stun value just makes sense.
If anything Sadako needs the QoLs that Wraith has because she is actually low tier and has one viable playstyle that ain't all that fun to do or deal with as survivor. I love Sadako, but that girl needs some help. TV spawns are pretty bad, lack of mobility is also pretty bad, and having a lullaby does her no favors either like she doesn't need to have that.
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Anyone who thinks Wraith isn't C tier, get a 25 win streak with him. Ultimately, a killer's strength is tied to their ability to kill survivors and the most objective way to evaluate their strength is to look at their kill rate and ability to win streak.
S tier = 100+ win streak
A tier = 50 win streak
B tier = 25 win streak
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Because it takes an iri addon to make Sadako usable, her stealth is far weaker than Wraith's is (doesnt actually make you invisible, comes with a lullaby), and lightburning is no longer relevant because it's not in the game.
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I catch far more survivors off guard with Sadako than Wraith because of her significantly better uncloak. Wraith's stealth is much better but his uncloak is significantly worse.
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On it.
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I've begun the streak.
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That just says more about the sad state of Sadako more than anything.
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Wraith is high B tier low A tier in this meta 100%
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I think Wraith is a bit of a pub stomp character. He relies on ambushing, and when you surprise people you can really wreak havoc...
I saved him until I got used to slower killers like Pig, Myers, Trapper, etc, as when I read his moment speed boost, I felt that would be a crutch for new player and slow diwn me learning the basics... but holy crap when I began running him I started brutalised teams.
Then I went up against a strong WoO survivor with a lot of experience, and was more or less just in straight up chase without ambush... and he really gave me hard time. Even with my movement speed boost on decloak and chase down power, I just couldn't seem to find the right moment to catch him.
So I can kinda see where Otz is coming from. I'm a scrub, but to me it seems Vs. a strong coordinated team, Wraith runs out of tricks quickly... however vs. the average Joe Schmoe, he feels very powerful 🤔
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These posts are all nice and cool and all, but everyone seems to be missing the point.
they are too busy releasing OP new survivor perks and crappy new useless killers to even THINK about the low tier killers who are performing under 40% killrates.
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Wraith ALSO gets a major speed boost upon decloaking. You really cannot compare him with Sadako. I don’t think she’s as bad as everyone says, but Wraith is definitely far more powerful.
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Good luck. You'll need it.
Where's your 25+ win streak then, sir?
Yes. I agree with you on Wraith being a pub stomper.
Sadako doesn't need uncloak speed boost since her uncloak is way better. If Wraith had her uncloak, it would literally be a guaranteed hit on every uncloak.
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I don't think so.
I'm already at 10 I think I haven't really been trying.
They've been streamed as well.
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Of the last four survivors released - Vittorio, the Lyra siblings and Soma, one perk has stood out as too strong - Made for This. Most other perks of those 12 are useless, and a handful see some use - Potential Energy and Background Player come to mind as the primary two. By that logic, they're also too busy releasing OP new killer perks because Nowhere to Hide is strong.
I agree that much of the alterations made to this game focus very heavily on what is new and what is old and unused is often left to rot, but arguing that it's because they're releasing amazing survivor perks patch after patch is simply untrue.
Many of the killers need a second pass - especially with regards to their addons. Wraith and Sadako are no exception. Them not recieving them, I think, has to do with the way they approach balance - seemingly (key-word seemingly, I'm not a member of the dev team and have to speculate) changes are made just based on a big spreadsheet with usage and kill statistics, without regard to the wider context of those values. Additionally, rebalances don't come very often - the last major rework to perks was over a year ago now, just prior to the 6th Anniversary, and many of the perks made meta by that rebalance - Off the Record and Jolt as an example from each side - remain meta to this day.
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Well same experience as me. I do fine with Wraith on most matches until I get a bad map against good survivors.
What's your stream?
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Same as my Forum name.
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It’s already pretty much a guaranteed hit unless there’s a jungle gym or vault nearby. His speed boost is a huge advantage both in his cloaked and his post-uncloak movement. If you’re struggling with him it’s a you problem and not a fundamental flaw.
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i ask myself too "why wraith has no warning ?" whether it's 16m or 24m doesn't matter, the main thing is that he's not completely surprising, because onyro is weaker than wraith but she has a lulleby, that's little bit unfair to new players (wraith is one of the free to play chars) from me he should be a get a bit buffed but a lulleby for that
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There are zero killers performing under a 40% kill rate. Literally none of them.
Also, a majority of Survivor perks released recently have been extremely underwhelming, to the point where you hardly see them. Made for This is the first really good perk we've gotten for Survivor in ages.
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You are right that not all new survivor perks are good, I'll conceed that.
But when a survivor perk is problematic, it takes literal YEARS to be addressed... then they release a new one back to back like CLOCKWORK.
Meanwhile, it's patch notes after patch notes of "meta shake up" that consists of every meta killer perks getting absolutely GUTTED much to the enjoyment of survivor mains that get a million adjacent pallets, huge map reworks that favors them heavily and built-in endurance slapped on every situation they can't cope with.
So, yeah, survivor mains can cry me a river if they want to... but this game is balanced around THEM not killers... having fun.
Killer mains should be on the company pay roll by now with all the rules survivors keep making up for them!
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Look at numbers again. You are wrong.
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What numbers? BHVR haven't released any official stats in a while (and when they did no killers had under a 50% kill rate) and Nightlight doesn't report any killer with a sub-40% kill rate.
I think you're just making stuff up honestly.
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Are you on Twitch? Can't find you. Private message me the link.
There's almost always a jungle gym or vault nearby. His uncloak loses a similar amount of time compared to breaking a pallet.
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