Do YOU think 'Made For This' is going to get nerfed?
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I don't think so. Because of how the new Archives are, Singularity & Gabriel will get a Tome next, and it's likely that they'll encourage continuing to buy the characters. Just look at how long it took Circle of Healing to be nerfed.
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reality is Survivors arent allowed to have anything......but killers can get new good stuff. what a joke these forums can be at times
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Honestly out of curiosity what really good new perks have Killer gotten in the past year or so? I seen ppl say that killers are the only role that is allowed to get new good stuff but I honestly can't think of a single perk since Pain Res or Flood of Rage that I've been excited to use. A lot of new killer perks have been really meh bc their numbers have been underpowered or their designs are very bad or niche. Singularity perks are very meh tbh, SM perks are all garbage, the only good perk on Knight was NTH but since gen-kicking meta is gone it's very meh now compared to other aura perks, none of Wesker perks to me are that exciting or really new(SA is just a faster bamboozled without the window block, AA was better in ptb but was nerfed hard bc of nurse, and Terminus is very meh), and Dredge perks are mid-tier at best. Onryo did come out with some decent perks that I do like mainly Floods and Strom but CoB is useless now after its major nerf. I know Survivors hasn't gotten that many perks either but let's be honest here both sides as of late been in the same boat when it comes to new perks.
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The reduction of the killers bonus movement speed based on percentage.
Hope reduces the killers bonus ms by 46.6% and when you add MFT you reduce it by another 37.5%. The more haste you get the more effective that haste becomes. If the killer is 110 then 5% haste is equal to 2.5% when stacked. The first 5% makes the killer take twice as long to catch up and the additional 2.5% would double it again.
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I think Nurse's chase music volume getting fixed was a big sign that BHVR thinks Nurse is fine now too, because they could have just sat on that bug for another few years if they wanted to.
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no. Mandy confirmed that the perk is not receiving any changes. Time to learn to adapt to the perk as killer.
Post edited by Devil_hit11 on1 -
So, once again, it's Hope that's doing the heavy lifting as MFT on it's own wouldn't really be doing much.
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Yes but hopefully they don't gut the perk. Just address haste stacking since that is the issue.
The perk by itself is fine. It becomes a problem when Hope is paired with it.
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Maybe next year or the year after that.
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Doesn't that imply that Hope is the issue and not MFT then? I see it as the opposite since using MFT with Hope basically makes MFT a slightly worse additional Hope. In that case how is Hope doing the heavy lifting when they are roughly both giving the same % reduction? That's like saying the 90% damage reduction is doing all the work and not the flat 10% that makes you immune. The flat 10% is pushing it over the top and not the 90%.
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Its either gonna be unchanged forever or absolutely gutted by next years anni.
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Take away Hope and what do you have?
Hope's the issue in that scenario.
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I hope they will. 20% free distance without any downside even more stupid than old dh. Staking with hope isn't the problem, problem is, again, it's whole match 20% of free distance.
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Why can't you do the same in regard to MFT? If you remove MFT then there isn't a issue, and we know this by the fact that Hope has been in the game since release. It is only a problem now because of MFT. How is MFT not the issue here?
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Yeah, I don't understand why ppl try to say Hope is the problem when it's been in the game for so long and no one really complained about it before. I'm fine with hope, it's an end-game perk that offers good value to those who survived the match. Its MfT I have an issue with bc its free haste just for being hurt. Now a question if these ppl really think MfT doesn't give much value then way so many ppl are running it? It reminds me of DH before the hook requirement was added. So many said the same thing about DH and the fact it was a bad perk when it was the num one used perk even after its first nerf. We all know survivors aren't going to run a perk that doesn't give them a huge advantage in a chase. Also, how is MfT "fun" when all it does is make you faster? Just encourage holding W and really gives no interaction with the killer.
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Because Hope is enabling MFT to boost the percentages in this niche scenario?
Hope is giving you a 7% Haste, MFT is only giving you 3%. Logically, you'd want to address the bigger number first.
Here's what you could do:
Hope can no longer stack with other perks that give Haste. There you go, you killed off the fun Endgame build without destroying either of the perks individually.
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"Why are people running it"
Idk man, I've got no clue why a BRAND NEW PERK that has been hyped up by literally EVERY SINGLE content creator is being ran a lot.
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Because haste stacking is the issue here, not 1 individual perk. When you bring 1 of these perks by themselves, they aren't a problem or deemed OP. Most people were not running Hope before this, it was considered like Pulsar said, niche. Some people did run it, sure. But no one fussed about it because it wasn't ever that crazy strong on its own.
MfT is the same deal. I run MfT as well, coupled with Resilience and I've never had someone complain about it or call it OP because I can still go down, I can still walk into a dead zone if not running WoO and its not the saving grace that MfT + Hope is at end-game. Sure it helps me in chase more if I'm a good looper but isn't that what a perk is supposed to do? And it only benefits you ideally if you are any good at chaining tiles/mindgaming so why nerf a perk that isn't directly the problem? If it were so busted strong on its own, I'd agree a nerf or looking at is in order of course. But that isn't the case (as much as some people want it to be).
Stop the 2 perks from haste stacking, that is the solution. It'll allow people to still have a choice of what they want to run and it won't kill off 2 perks people would want to use.
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Yeah, and all those videos show how strong that perk is also. Ppl don't run perks just bc they are "fun" they run them bc they are strong and help them win games. Nothing is fun about MfT, it's a haste perk that just makes you go faster. It doesn't offer anything interaction with the killer in a chase other than hold W to the next loop. You also were the one who said DH was a bad perk I believe when it was the number one used perk in the game for the same reason for MfT, because it's "fun".
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I've said the new DH is bad.
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Have they ever done that though? Wasn't Forever Freddy the same issue with stacking things and they just removed it rather then make it not stack. And there are other haste perks that you can stack with hope that don't create this problem. Isn't this really just a case that is caused by not having a duration. Hope was fine on its own because you can't stack it with other haste perks that don't have a duration until this patch.
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I would say there are zero issues with haste outside of these 2 perks and there was zero problems prior to this patch. There are a bunch of haste perks in this game and is only a problem now with MFT being added. To me that shows MFT is the core problem and nothing else.
I honestly don't see how the 3% is fine even without other things. Yea you can make mistakes and the perk won't get you out of there but 6.0 DH somewhat did the same. The problem with perks like this is it makes better loopers harder to down compared to other exhaustion perks and hit the lower tier killers much harder. From there you look at endgame issues and seems like the correct thing would be nerfing the new perk that is causing the issues.
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They removed stacking vault speed shortly after wesker came out iirc, because stacking bamboozle, fire up, and superior anatomy was causing vault speeds that literally broke the animation. So something like that has been done before.
Hope definitely stacked/stacks with other haste since the time limit was removed. There are tons of videos around that time of people playing with Hope + Blood Pact, which gave two survivors 114% ms during end game, and only took 3 perk slots.
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Yes because people are making 20% sound extreme when in a game sense it probably doesn't mean much.
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But that is more of those things not working with his power. You can still stack those perks right now but on him his power just doesn't get affected with speed perks. They didn't go in and make it so vault speed doesn't stack and instead just made it so his power doesn't get affected by it.
Yea and that build isn't a problem. The thing with all haste outside of MFT is it is clunky to get/maintain outside of Hope. So blood pact doesn't have a duration but it is clunky and looks really niche to get the proc while MFT is just something you get by existing. Other perks are duration so while OP it is for a limited time. There was no issues with the haste mechanic until MFT came. To me that indicates that the new perk is what is causing the problems and nothing else.
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Think so.
Legion and Wesker used to be affected by vault speed perks like Bamboozle and Fire Up.
Hope can be stacked with Blood Pact for an even greater Speed Boost of 114% m/s
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Its a balance. DH wasn't only strong, it was a lot of fun once you got the hang of it and extremely satisfying when you did get it to proc to save yourself. MfT is passive fun. Sure, you don't get any on-use power but if you're a good looper, you'll definitely be able to use it to your advantage and chain tiles together easier. Longer chases = typically more fun/focus. And so what if it doesn't give you any strong on-use interaction with the killer? A lot of perks don't. They're passive or you don't even notice them till the end-game scoreboard.
If there are 0 issues with haste outside of these 2 perks, why not just address haste stacking? Its a simple solution and it doesn't screw over people who just want to run 1 perk or the other. Like I said, I don't even run Hope with MfT. Just because there hasn't been any prior issues with haste doesn't mean haste stacking shouldn't be addressed.
If there are all these haste perks that are now 'problems' because of MfT, where are they? Why is no one complaining about those other perks? Why is it only Hope and MfT? No one is complaining about anything else besides these 2 perks synergizing way too strongly with one another. So why not fix that and IF people really want haste, they'll have to pick one or the other. I feel like that's a way better solution than just outright nerfing 2 perks when there are better ways around it.
But don't you think better loopers deserve to be harder to down? I think thats a pretty rational thought to think, I'd expect someone with 1000+ hours to play better than someone who has less than 100.
As for the lower tier killers, I agree somewhat with you. They do suffer more because of MfT but they suffer fundamentally because their core power/weak balancing. I'd rather have them brought up to higher standards to meet the likes of the higher tier killers like Nurse, Blight, Wesker rather than nerfing a perk that affects a fraction of the killers and is nullified by the others.
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Well it took them18 months to acknowledge Circle of healing was broken, wouldn't hold my breath.
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But they made those killers just not be affected by speed for their power and didn't make all vault perks not stack with each other. They made Freddy not have addons rather then make it so % slowdown doesn't stack.
Blood pact is a really clunky perk that isn't anywhere near convenient and basically requires comms and loop with with another person. Realistically Hope would be just getting nerfed just because of MFT. They wouldn't alter how haste works in general just because of a single combo, at least I don't see them doing that.
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Do really need a perk to make chaining loops easier in a game where more than half the maps are extremely easy to do so. I said this before in another thread that MfT only makes maps even more easier to loop around and chain together. If the maps was idk more balance then I wouldn't care about MfT all that much but that's not the dbd we have today is it? In fact the dev team has shown time and time again they can't balance maps if their lives was dependent on it. Almost every updated map has the same problems as the newer maps. Then you have the graphical updates like the Red Forest that literally makes the maps even worse than what they were before. We getting two farms maps rebalance next and I have no faith they will be no better than they are now. In fact I think the devs will somehow make Cowshed even worse some how. Either way MfT does make a much bigger impact than some y'all think. Trust me I know because I have played against nothing but MfT lobbies and they all was the same builds and some of the most unfun games I ever had as killer. Dang MfT is actually making me wish DH was back the way it was and that saying a lot since I hated DH with a passion.
I'll also add that the devs will never bring up lower tier killers. They haven't shown any interest in doing so In fact they think trapper and Myers are "fine" so I don't know why ppl keep saying they should bring them up when the devs never will. I'm asking for a more realistic action that the devs will do and that is nerf or change MfT since they never going to adjust the killer individually. Even if they do it'll take years. Look at the twins rework, it's taking over a year just for that.
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Babysitting gives haste off unhook and that wouldn't work if they made haste work like endurance. They won't just made perks not stack when it comes to haste I don't think. That sounds like a nightmare to do and it is something I can't see them investing time into when the problem is just MFT.
No problems outside of MFT when it comes to haste. They've played it fairly safe when it comes to haste before this patch.
Better loopers are harder to down because they are already better loopers. Making a perk that does little for the average player but becomes increasingly stronger the better the survivor is doesn't make much sense. It is the same problem that DH had where the average player wasn't getting much value from it but the better players were getting too much.
Low tier killers are simple to play so they should be weaker. If they buff lower tier killers then the higher tier killers are harder to play but yield no additional value making it not make sense to play those killers. If you go down that path then you would just end up buffing the entire roster.
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Even if they did buff the lower tier killers it would most likely take years to buff each individual killer. They can't just do broad charges since they would buff the already higher tier killers like blight. If they buff the lower tier killers they would have to do each one at the time. Since the twins rework has took more than a year so far can you imagine how long it would take them to buff every single low tier killer? These people don't think about this stuff when they suggest buffing lower tier killers. It's almost like they don't know anything about how this dev team works....
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Yea doing buffs to all the low tier killers would take a long time. That's not something they would do over a single patch since base kit buffs would buff things they are not intending to buff in the first place. Even buffing lower killers brings the concern that the changes will severely hurt the lower skill levels where those killers are the strongest. Like asking for Nurse, Blight, and Spirit buffs. For low tier those killers are weak and in need of buffs but at higher levels it would break the game.
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That's not really correct, When it comes to reducing speed every percentage is worth more the more you have
MfT turns survivors into 4.12, Hope turns survivors into 4.28 and MfT+Hope turns them into 4.4
What you do divide the speed difference normally by the speed difference from the new speed to see how much extra time it gives you
The extra time MfT gives is 0.6/0.48= 1.25 or 25% extra time to catch up
The extra time Hope gives is 0.6/0.32= 1,875 or 87.5% extra time
The extra time MfT+Hope gives you is 0.6/0.2= 3 or 200% extra time
So MfT is giving a huuge boost to what hope normally can do. It is a big difference
I don't think MfT is superbroken but saying that in Hope+MfT hope is doing all the work just isn't correct
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Without Hope, you're sitting at a measly 25%.
Clearly, Hope is the issue in this combo.
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The stacking is the issue tbh.
Both are fine sepperatly, they only get to silly numbers when put together
They will need to be carefull about making it not stack. With the unhook haste effect stacking haste happens fairly often and not making it stack will have a big rimple effect outside of MfT and hope. Unless they make the not stacking solely a part of MfT or Hope
It's also fair to point out this is looking at base 115 killer without power
The numbers vs a base blight in rush change to this while the rush is active
MfT: 5.2/5.08= 1.024 or 2.4% increase
Hope: 5.2/4.92= 1.057 or 5.7% increase
Hope+Mft: 5.2/4.8= 1.083 or 8.3% increase
And while rushes are obviously temporary and there are bumbs to take into account it's obviously a huge difference
Numbers vs base spirit phasewalk as bonus
MfT: 3.04/ 2.92= 1.041 or 4.1%
Hope: 3.04/2.76= 1.10 or 10%
Mft+Hope: 3.04/2.64= 1.15 or 15%
The main reason why i think MfT is overall fine. It's stronger vs weaker killers but falls off hard vs the stronger ones and people tend to want to bring perks that help against the strongest killers and not help them beat killers that already are easier to beat
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Thinking 20% as "does not mean much" is new to me, generator progress, hook speed, hit cooldown, vault speed, 20% is extremely large deal in basically everything.
Are you mistaking this game as some sort of hack'n'slash?
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I think it should just be Hope that doesn't stack, if they change anything.
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It wasn't limited to just wesker. I believe the worst effects were killers who could get innate vault speed from add-ons or ability like wraith or T3 Myers. Even the standard vault was broken, if it wasn't part of the killers power.
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Yeah that would be fair i think
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Yeah that would be fair i think
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This have been floating around my tweeter feed early this week. This should give you guys a clear answer.
So expect this perk to get touched in the next chapter if anything, unless they tweak it for this upcoming mid-chapter.
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That's due to the haste stacking. Take away Hope, and then see how many easy undeserved escapes you get. Majority of complaints about MFT boil down to it being paired with Hope.
MFT is just the non-boon equivalent to Dark Theory. Dark Theory never really worked well as a boon since you had to be chased within the radius of the boon.
This is nothing like DH. Old DH was problematic for a variety of reasons. MFT is quite literally just Dark Theory, but not attached to a boon. The risk to this perk is that you have to remain injured to get value out of it. It doesn't carry survivors to undeserved wins.
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So tho I do agree MfT doesn't give a individual a undeserved win but here the thing...MfT makes chases last longer (just like DH did) and longer chases mean more gens being done in the background and that means the survivors who not being chased has a higher chance of escaping. It may not give the one person who being chased a undeserved win (probably why data is telling the devs it's fine) but it does help the other survivors win easier.
Here my thing about MfT and DH before it's latest nerf. One or two of them in a lobby was never a big deal to me. I was more than happy with a loddy when only one or two survivors was running DH and same goes for MfT. The problems start when you have more then half of the survivors running it. That means 3 or every chase you have will be longer and that also means gens can be done faster. The one thing ppl always seem to forget when it comes to survivor perks is that it's hardly ever one or two DHs (per previous nerf) or MfT. I seen a lot of lobbies with 3 or 4 MfTs and I can say those are the matches I had the least amount of fun on killer in a while. The matches with one or two wasn't that bad but those 3 to 4 man MfT matches was nightmare and it happened multiple times for a night. Those matches also had hope and when I saw that I just gave up in the end game and let the ppl escape bc I didn't even want to bother chasing 3 or 4 hope+MfT survivors.
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So it sounds more like it was a bug they fixed. Correct me if I'm wrong but in current dbd vault speed stacks with other vault speed. If that is correct then they didn't remove vault speed stacking and I'm guessing they ran into a bug with the new vault perk that needed to be ironed out. Like can't T3 Myers and Wraith still stack vault speed today?
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Nope due tp surv having strong thing is x4 always
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MfT isn't OP by itself. Its strong, sure. But that's the whole point. And whats with this whole 'i dont want longer chases so nerf it' approach. If you're committing to a long chase with someone, isn't that entirely on you? The reward for running that perk is literally to prolong chases, which is what it does IF you are any good. It isn't going to save you like MfT+ Hope in end-game. It isn't going to do anything if you run into a dead zone or if you lose a mind-game at a weak pallet tile.
Why is it the person's fault who takes the killer's time away from his team? Why is there no responsibility on the killer? No one forces you to commit to a long chase, hell there are plenty of killers that can play the hit and run style effectively so why is it the fault of the person running MfT who actually makes use out of it and not on the killer who ignored 3 others just sitting on gens w/o any pressure?
So because a match is harder and you're less likely to get the result you want (3/4k), MfT has to be the issue? I also don't see 3/4 MfTs that frequently and even if multiple people are running it, it doesn't mean they're good. I've seen so many people running MfT go down fast, lol. Its just a perk, it doesn't just make you a pro looper over night.
Yes Hope + MfT is bad. I think most if not all of us can agree there at least. But thats entirely because of haste stacking.
Getting haste off unhook doesn't need to change. Why wouldn't they do it? Yea I'm sure there's more work to it than just changing some numbers on a perk and calling it a day but its the healthier and better option compared to gutting 2 perks people want to use still. Just make us choose which one we want.
Harder loopers deserve to be harder to down, thats the reward of getting experience in the game and getting better. I'm confused, you want perks that reward bad players and hold their hands? There are plenty that do that already. IMO, its completely fine and rational to have certain perks give advantages to people who are more skilled. That isn't a crazy concept to me, because its normal & common in other games.
The problem with old DH (talking about the one before the latest gut nerf) was a lot of people complained about it when in reality they just weren't very good players and had self-inflated egos. It wasn't an issue against actual good killers. Annoying & frustrating though? Yea! I know several killer mains, and even some content creators who had win rates of 90%+ playing A/B/C tier killers and never hissed about DH being broken or OP. I mean Hexy for instance, a Wraith main, was winning 90% if not more of his matches, didn't matter if he was against an SWF - he actually prefers SwFs cause he likes sweating.
And the vocal ones will always be the ones who complain about a perk b/c a match didn't go their way which is exactly what happened on Reddit and the Forums. Good killer mains didn't do that, the only ones that tried to spin DH as some crazy OP perk were the ones who thought they better than they actually are. I've seen so many people blame the old DH for why they lost, when in reality they made some horrible decisions in the match that affected them way more.
Ex. I remember my 2 teammates were on death hook (1 person already dead) while I hadn't taken a single hook, I got into chase with Nemesis with 2 gens up. He stayed on me for the entirety of the 2 gens being worked on, and downed me as the final gen was completed. He hooked me near 1 of the exit gates. I got saved, teammates helped bodyblock and take hits, we got out. Found out he was a twitch streamer so wanted to watch the match back from his perspective but when I got there, this guy was just cursing me out and complaining about DH being the reason he lost and how the survivors aren't any good, etc. Just full on emotional response instead of looking at anything else. Its always gotta be the survivor's problem/fault?
What? If we buff low tier killers to be more on the lines of B/A (not even talking Blight or Nurse level), how does that have any relevance to high tier killers? How does buffing low tier killers make higher tier killers harder to play? Yield no additional value? Not everyone is playing killers based on difficulty, they play killers for their power/playstyle/strength most of the time. If low tier killers were brought up to similar levels/strength, it'd do nothing for the other killers that were already high like Wesker, Blight, Nurse etc. People would still play them.
You're tellin me if we buffed Trapper to a similar level of Wesker's, people would stop playing Wesker because it provides no serious value anymore over Trapper? Hell no! People would still play the hell out of Wesker because he's fun and still very strong. People would just have more choice in what killer to play knowing that whatever they pick, isn't crazy weak or F tier.
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Man, it's almost like you completely overlooked the part when I said when it's one or two MfTs it's kinda fine. Yeah if a chase goes on for too long I usually switch to someone else but if 3 or 4 of the survivors are running this perk that means every single chase is going to be prolonged. Do I keep switching? If don't commit to someone at some point I'm going to lose anyway since gens is still being done in the background. Don't say create dead zones in a map either bc most maps in dbd are filled with plenty of pallets and creating dead zones takes a lot of time in those maps. Time most killers don't have.
I say this because it's not just MfT, it's the maps, it's the low-tier killer who is hurt the most by MfT and it's the fact that survivors can bring multiple of the same perk. If dbd had more balance maps and better map design then I won't care as much about MfT but again that's not the dbd we have now or ever will have since even the attempts to rebalance a map are usually bad. The same goes for the low-tier killers if they were buffed so MfT won't hurt them as much then I won't care that much about it but the devs are never going to take the time to buff those killers. We talking about a dev team that thinks Trapper is fine, they think Myers is fine and the promised Twin rework is taking more than a year to do. If you think they are going to look at the low-tier killers and take the time to buff them when they could just easily change one perk then you my sir and others are living in a fantasy world.
Either way sooner or later MfT will be nerfed. It is either now/soon or when its use rate is so high that they will want to change up the "meta" again. So all this arguing at this point is useless imo. I have stated my opinion on this matter and I'm moving on with my life.
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The way MFT and DH make chases last longer are different. DH allowed you to take an extra hit while injured, which would allow you to get to another tile, and you could also use it for distance which created a lose-lose scenario. MFT increases your movement speed while injured by 3%, which is the difference between making a pallet and being downed.
DH would extend chases against even the strongest killers. MFT only gets value at small loops. If it's taking you more than 35 seconds to down an injured survivor, that's a chase that has already gone on too long. Drop it, and patrol gens.
Multiple instances of MFT only extends chases if the survivors are actually good. I seen a solo queue player run MFT and he went down within about 15 seconds of being chased. This is another reason why it isn't like old DH. You didn't need to already be good at chase to get value out of it, you just had to know the timing.
Even in the case that all survivors are good, eventually they'll expend their resources. I played Sadako with no add-ons and a build I cobbled together. Map was swamp, one of my worst maps. I had a poor start. Lost 3 gens before I got my first kill. But because I dropped chases to defend generators that I could hear were close to completion, I ended up getting a 4k because the survivors ended up in a 3-gen.
Survivors make mistakes the more pressure you're applying to them. They get impatient. Their ability to make decisions becomes impacted.
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Haste should all be going to the same spot for the coding. So they would have to rework the entire thing to sperate haste off hook and perk haste. On top of that they would have to add to all the descriptions of haste perks that they don't stack with other haste perks which they never go into that direction. I don't see them doing that when the problem really stems from one perk.
I would say there shouldn't be a multiplier for chase and flat extenders are better. SB will add 10 seconds to chase and better players can 99 the perk and do plays you would never be able to do without it. I find that healthier than a perk that increases your chase times by 20%.
DH was an actual problem vs good killers though. The problem is it depended on what killer you played on how DH was. For a killer like Demo 6.1 DH was literally better than 6.0. The patch they went and "nerfed" the perk actually ended up buffing it.
Why would I play a killer like Demo when I can play Myers that is the same power level and not even close to the same difficultly to play at the max potential? How is then Myers not a massive problem when he is very easy to play and is B tier? Sure at higher levels of play it isn't going to be broken but the lower you get the stronger he becomes. Those 2 things are why weaker killer honestly are fine in where they are at. I have seen players bring up how low tier killers are only fine because of Save and I think that is perfectly fine since it adds more difficulty to those killers which allows better players to get more value out of those killers' kits without it affecting lower levels.
If they buffed Trapper to Weskers level and made him still that simple to play then It would be Dead by Trapper. We saw the same thing with Omega blink Nurse where she was very easy to play for the power level and everyone spammed her. Players are very happy with playing things they don't like for free wins and we even saw this with the 3 gen meta. How could anyone actually like to play that way outside the fact that it was broken, so hey why not take a free win.
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