Made for this is a Problem for the same reason Dead hard was.
The problem with made for this isn't that it is really OP all the time. It definitely is too powerful when combined with other movement speed effects, and against killers that already struggle like trapper, pig, sadako etc. It just makes their lives much worse than it already is. Basically, against the top tier killers like nurse spirit and blight, they aren't gonna care about it. But the lower tier killers are struggling against it.
Secondly, it doesn't have any downside and the survivor doesn't have to do anything to earn it. To "earn" it, you just get hit. You get rewarded for getting hit. How many killer perks have been constantly nerfed because the killer gets rewarded for "losing" like NOED? It is going to activate 100% of the time in a chase against any killer that doesn't have an instadown, exhaustion causing addons are in very short supply these days, and last so short that they aren't going to help very much.
I'd argue even that other perks the survivors have access to have downsides, have to be earned, or about punishing the killer for doing something specific such as camping, or tunneling, or the survivor has to earn it, like the current dead hard.
There are also so many really strong buildings in the game that have really tight loops that already are hard to deal with, that the extra movement speed turns them into infinites. Main building window on garden of joy for example, is an actual infinite against some killers when made for this is in play.
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Here's my chart. This is all in my own experience. Except for Hag, I don't know if MFT's Haste is enough to get away from a Hag trap being triggered.
Most of the Killers affected by MFT are #########. That's more an issue with the Killer than a perk, imo. ANY strong perk will adversely affect those Killers because they lack the power to deal with it.
The only remotely strong Killer that I think is majorly affected by MFT is Plague, since Survivors will almost always be Injured and if they don't cleanse, that can be difficult to deal with.
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So your chart is full of it quite a bit TBH. To start with, clown is still affected by it because it counteracts the slowdown a bit more than running normally. As mentioned instadown killers don't care much, nor do blight nurse and spirit.
Twins very much is affected by it, i'm not sure what you mean by that, but the extra speed definitely makes it easier to dodge victor.
Cenobite definitely cares a little because again, it makes it easier to dodge and the movement speed applies even when you are chained. The chains right now BARELY make it so you catch up to the survivor if you land a perfect chain. For example, look how hard fixated counters him.
Dredge? ######### are you on about with that one, dredge is basically an M1 killer with a "leave the loop" power. MFT allows you to "leave the loop" faster and get more distance than you normally would.
I'll give you wraith.
Trapper? Are you kidding me? Trapper is HEAVILY affected by it because his power is pretty garbage in general as it is.
MYERS? he is literally an m1 killer!?
Billy i'll give you he has instadown, but its more about curving which MFT can make harder.
Demo?!! are you nuts? MFT makes you run FASTER than demo while charging shred, whereas normally demo moves at the same speed as survivor (with that addon), this MEGA makes a difference, think back to when they nerfed the addon so he still moved slower than survivors and how terrible he was and they quickly put it back before it went live from PTB.
Ghost face is another m1 killer basically with a stealth component, but ghost face very much is still an m1 killer.
PH i'd say is arguable but seems fine.
HUNTRESS?! 103 vs 110 is HUGE when you can huge those insane rocks that she can't throw over, they become infinites without bloodlust.
Deathslinger, see huntress
Nemesis, in theory yeah, but in practice it hurts him pretty hard, try playing him sometime at high MMR.
Artist is same as dredge, her power is a "leave the loop" power, so it allows the survivor to leave the loop faster.
Knight is a "leave the loop" power
Skull merchant is a "leave the loop" power
Singularity is HEAVILY affected by it, because as it stands if you run duration, you can JUST barely catch up to them just before the duration runs out to tank a pallet stun, but with MFT you don't get enough distance, so he basically becomes an m1 killer you predrop pallets against.
Wesker i'll give you
All the bad ones i give you as well. All in all, i'd change your list to this:
Moreever though, you did not address the main point of this thread. Which is that it is 100% free, survivors just get it, for getting hit. They are rewarded for making a mistake.
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Made for this complaint thread #67
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being injured as survivor is impossible avoid almost. they are not rewarding for making mistake. you get empowered for being 1 shot. Nicola cage perk Dramaturgy is on PTB and it grants 25% haste for 2 seconds. so whole DH for distance is clearly coming back to DBD. Now killer chases will be extend in an impossible to counter manner for most killers since almost everyone will be using that perk.
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That perk at least has downsides. Which is the main difference between dead hard and the other perks. MFT literally has no downside, it does not counter some toxic killer strategy, nor does it have any requirements. It just HAPPENS, 100% of the time.
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For me killer isn't fun to play right now because of this one single perk. Number of times I see it a day now is getting closer and closer to DH numbers before it's last nerf. On top of that I play low tier killer since I hate nurse and blight and can feel MfT so badly. I know ppl don't think it's a op perk but it has changed my games. Before this chapter I would avg around 6 or 7 wins a night (I usually end up playing 10 over all and I play multiple killers a night. I use a random picker to pick my killer play next). Now I'm lucky to get 3 wins. Most of my games end up with me getting frustrated and stressed out. Defending myself even before the match is over. All these matches have one thing in common and that is MfT. So if the perk isn't strong why all sudden I'm getting wrost at a game where I have over 1000s hours? Did my MMR just magically go up over night where I'm getting survivors who are miles better than me? I can't help to feel it has something to do with this single perk.
Either way DBD is growing to be the most unfun game for me anymore and honestly been thinking about taking a LONG break because my killer matches aren't chill anymore and just are frustrating and stressful. Trust me I honestly don't need the stress right now. I honestly can't wait for the Texas chainsaw game to come out just so I can uninstall DBD for a while.
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Clown is almost completely unaffected. His gameplay functions exactly the same.
Twins WANTS people to be injured. MFT encourages people to stay injured. 3% could help dodge Victor, if his hitbox wasn't the size of a semi-truck.
Pinhead isn't affected by MFT because the Chains force you to walk. MFT doesn't apply on walking, only while running.
Once again, MFT encourages people to stay injured. Dredge benefits from that via Nightfall. Dredge isn't like Knight where he simply ceases moving while at a loop and loses vision of the Survivor. He keeps moving and can clearly see the Survivor begin to move away. Not an issue.
Trapper excels at locking down areas. MFT will not help you when you run into a Trap.
Myers is an instant down Killer, not sure if you've forgotten.
Demo's Shred is more pallet break utility and for guaranteed hits at windows/vaults. In those cases, 3% will NOT matter. Resi might though.
You want to be healed against GF. He can and will sneak up on you. Even comp players don't risk it.
Not sure how Huntress ended up there, I meant to put her in the bottom tier.
Deathslinger has way more shot options than Huntress.
Ah yes, the "High MMR" response. Very good. Yeah, I've played Nemesis in scrims. He's fine against MFT. It hurts his Zombies, but ya know, if you were relying on them....that's kinda on you.
Artist can snipe. Artist also doesn't really slow down a significant amount. See Dredge response.
Knight's fine against MFT. I never use Guards to get hits, I use them to either pincer or to waste time.
SM is unaffected by MFT because she's too busy holding her 3-gen.
Larry will eat through pallets if you're just tossing them like you suggest.
Being injured as a Survivor is unavoidable. That's not a mistake. It's like saying a Killer who loses a gen made a mistake.
It's just not true.
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If DBD is stressing you out that much, I'd really encourage you to take a break.
It's not worth your mental health and you've gotta put yourself first.
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accoding dev's, slugging is unfun toxic strategy so we should implement base-kit unbreakable. /s. The perk does counter deemed unfun strategies.
The drawbacks is that it has half-up time working only when injured. do you want it to work when healthy as well? It also does not work when exhausted. All good perks in the game are often 100% consistent and have a powerful effect that the player values. that's kinda what meta perks are. Maybe one day they'll invent killer perk that gives haste or hindered for the killer that find the perk difficult to play against and want to counter it without having to run those really bad exhaust perks like genetic limits..
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The thing is that how many people do you see abusing the super haste builds? The average person isn’t gonna be working as hard as they can to abuse the perk.
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About 80% of matches, my opponents tend to be rather competent enough unlike lot of people here claims to be, and it's not like I'm god tier killer either.
Strange experience.
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While I agree somewhat, personally, I dont mind too much. Resilience makes you vault 9% faster, but you have to be injured to do so. MFT makes you run 3% faster, but you have to be injured to do so. That doesnt seem like a huge downside, but it does mean you're basically choosing to be louder and instadownable.
It's not really like old DH, where using the perk basically grants you another 20-30 seconds of chase, and it barely affects 115% killers(a chase on average lasts 5-10 seconds longer).
The downside is that you have to be injured, and there are plenty of perks that punish survivors for being injured.
Then it also has the downside that it basically cannot be used with most exhaustion perks(except maybe Smash Hit and Dead Hard).
As for your list of killers being affected, Trapper, Sadako, Plague, Trickster and Pig I agree with. The rest, not really and here's why (you can scroll past the list if you dont care about the details):
- Myers is often played by stalking as much as you can, the 3% increased movementspeed barely affects the stalking time and once he reached t3, he'll be able to easily close the gap that the 3% has created with his increased lunge range, not even talking about fully skipping the injured state on most survivors. After hooking people once, they wont heal ofcourse, but Myers has a reduced TR and any negative impact isnt due to MFT, but due to him being in need of a buff in general.
- Hag, if she dedicates to a chase(which is often a bad decision for Hag in the first place), then sure. Other than that? Nah, she teleports faster and lunges further than survivors can run.
- Doctor, I'm a doctor main, and while it is an annoyance, you'd be surprised how little he is affected by it. The biggest reason he SEEMS to be affected by it, is due to event pallets. Because Doctor's biggest weakness is pallets. All you have to do to combat MFT is to use your M2 a little bit less often.
- Huntress never cared for movement speed unless it was an exhaustion speed. Huntress is barely affected by Hope, so I dont see why she would be majorly affected by MFT.
- Freddy, well, you gotta understand DBD mechanics a bit deeper. Basically, debuffs dont take (x+buff)-debuff, but more like (x/debuff+buff/debuff). This isnt accurate, but it does mean that a survivor being 103% being debuffed with 25% doesnt make them 78%, but more like 76.6%. Which means Freddy(just like clown) is barely affected. And that is bloodpool Freddy. Pallet Freddy literally locks survivors in place when they drop a dream pallet and speed doesnt matter. He is affected in the sense that you have to place pools on the exits of a loop, rather than placing them on where a survivor could be in 5 seconds in a loop, but its mildly affected.
- Ghostface, similar reasons to Myers. You either go for instadowns, or he is stealthy enough to bypass most of the gaps in the first place.
- Demo, I mean, his Shred is sliiiightly easier to avoid, that's it.
- Slinger, while for m1 range, he is definitely affected, his m2 range makes up for most of it, especially his synergy with STBFL, the time saved from 2 stacks of STBFL is greater than the gap that 3% could create.
- Trickster, while I did put him in the list above, I am till putting him here. Why? Similar reasons to Slinger. If you've played Trickster a lot, you're used to survivors being significantly faster while you throw blades, the 3% wont matter much, but if you're relatively new or above average, the 3% will matter a lot.
- Nemesis, definitely not an issue. He's one of the best tunnelers in the game, his whip is a little bit easier to avoid, but similar reasons to Wesker and Pinhead, and you agree those are only mildly affected. I would consider Pinhead to be more affected in general, since its easier to break his chains.
- Artist, hard disagree, similar reasons to Huntress. Artist barely cares for Hope, so why MFT?
- Dredge, the dude is 115%, is one of the stealthiest to approach survivors and can surprise them by teleportation. It's only an issue in his early game at best.
- Knight, while his power is not good at injuring the survivors anymore (which, against good survivors it never really was), its still really good at occupying those survivors. Other than that, he tends to camp out in any 3-gen region if things dont go his way.
- Same as Knight, Skull Merchant doesnt really care for speed as she camps out in any 3-gen region.
- Singularity, I would say mildly affected, sure, the distance gained from survivors after you sprout out from them is bigger, but on the other hand, that basekit ability massively closes the gap in the first place. With MFT it just closes the gap slightly less.
Most of the killers that are actually affected by MFT are killers that are either in dire need of a buff/rework in the first place, or are killers who can rely heavily on injured perks in the first place (what will MFT be worth when Thanatophobia is at 100% power most of the match?)
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Killers already have free haste effect: Bloodlust. Killers is getting it when survivor outplay them, game is rewarding bad player for being bad player. Should we remove it as well?
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For real, I am not a fan of seeing these complaint threads about a perk that is hardly an issue.
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I've seen haste builds in almost every other game. It's more popular then you think. Every one of those games was miserable to play as a m1 killer(the main type of killer I play) and just wasn't fun at all. As I said in my post this has to be least amount of fun I have ever had in dbd in so long. Honestly(and I cant believe I'm saying this) but I think I rather go against 4 pre nerf DHs (DH from few patches ago) than 4 MfT.
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I would like to know where all of these survivors are that are running made for this every game?
I am barely seeing this perk in my games. Calling BS on these "seeing it every game" comments.
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People aren't staying injured to "get more value" out of MFT, they are going to still heal like normal. It isn't like resilience where you get a big benefit from being injured when not being chased.
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I wouldn't be so sure.
I'm definitely seeing it paired with Resi and I'm definitely seeing people just not waste time healing since healing was nerfed.
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As a dredge main I can 100% confirm I have never once thought that MFT was severly effecting me... If your good enough with dredge the survivor can be 2x faster than you and youll catch up. I think maybe youre making a bit of a big deal abt this... Dead hard was overpowered bc it gave speed AND let them take an extra hit. A small speed boost is not even that crazy. Let survivors have some good perks LOL.
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Also to add on, Dredge is alot more than a "teleport away killer", I think maybe you're using them wrong (or not effectivley). I use lockers in almost every chase to cut off survivors (even on maps with few lockers), and his reminant ability is amazing in loops!
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+1
the OP is entirely right.
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Stop complaining, mft is counter able with the thousands of perks that cause exhaustion and killer addons that cause exhaustion, if you have problems with it then run those, genetic limits in itself completely nullifies mft endurance ability
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there is no counter to MFT, its a flat out free 3% and a free Endurance (I guess to some people ... healing others is a ... cost?)
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The counter is using things that cause exhaustion, if you think 3% haste is making you lose killer games then you’re probs just a bad killer, never had a problem with mft as killer
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yikes, I wish that such a good exhaution causing perk existed, that would be nice.
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its really not a problem. its just mediocre combined with other exhaustion perks and not better on its own than balanced landing for instance. So i think its in the perfect spot.
Its weird to me that as soon as 1 perk that get released is useable, everyone starts jumping and hating on it, while thats exactly how it should be. New Perks should be useable
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it's in such a perfect spot that every game I see anywhere between 2-3 instances of it.
It's literally a 1 for 1 replacement of the issue we had with old DH.
its not even slightly different, its literally the same pick rate as when DH was problematic.
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seeing a perk often doesnt indicate thats its broken. there will always be meta perks and those will get run often. thats just normal.
and its not even close to old dead hard.
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Dead hard was never a problem. It was effective when used at the right time and punishing when it wasn't. Any new perk these days that gives survivors even the smallest edge in killer interaction situations is quickly seen as problematic. I haven't even bought these new characters yet to get the perks but after all the complaints I've seen about them I don't know if I should now.
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Uh, okay, gonna stop you there.
Original DH was a massive ######### problem. Like, one cannot overstate how much of an issue it was.
Even reworked DH was still really good. I think they nerfed it way too much, but it was really good.
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I am not on board the nerf train, however, calling the perk mediocre is disingenuous.
The perk is very good and strong. That's why I'd like to keep it that way, as an interesting option and a break to the monotonous meta.
If anything, it could lose the Endurance. I don't think it makes much sense with the perk and considering the Buckle Up changes, I suspect we'll see it changed on the Live release of the Mid-Chapter.
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It was good when it was used right like I said in my first post. Original DH was not an "I Win" button. You had to use it at the right times or you did not get benefit from it. There is way too much overreaction to just about everything that allows survivors to do something new or have some kind of an advantage against the killer.
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Not even close.
DH for distance was absurdly busted and there was nothing a vast majority of Killers could do about it.
It may not have been an I-win button, but it's as ######### close as we're gonna get.
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Just because something is rare, doesn't mean it is fine.
Imagine a scenario where there was a killer offering that did the following:
- All survivors are permanently exposed
- All survivors are permanently moriable with no hooks
- The killer permanently has double movement speed (9.2 m/s)
- The aura of all survivors is permanently revealed to the killer (bypasses distortion)
Now lets say this offering had a 1 in 1000 chance of appearing in the bloodweb. Meaning you'll roughly see it once every 1000 games. Is this offering balanced, fair, should it exist?
Better yet, i'll let otz take it from here:
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I used to do full SWF with friends who had played since the beginning with thousands of hours experience. We all used DH with voice communication. There were a lot of matches where it made no difference. Many more where it hardly mattered at all. Killers became increasingly better at baiting it out, especially the ones we played against since our SWF team consisted of such high experienced players who were always red ranked. I actually stopped using old DH several times because for me it wouldn't always work out well. It was a balanced perk that relied on skillful use in appropriate situations to get the most use out of it.
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I'll take screenshots of my next 10 games, and post them here.
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I'm genuinely not sure how you can be bad at using old DH, but I suppose some people had to be for the perk to have made it 5 years.
Like, MFT, I can get. If you don't have good pathing, it doesn't do much. If the Killer swarms the hook, not much value. If you suck at looping, not a lot of value.
But old DH was literally so versatile. You could even use it to ramp off of objects. Dodge hit, make distance, make a pallet, make a window.
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We weren't bad at using it. Killer players were just good at countering it. It was never a problem with the perk. It was the problem of the killer for failing to bait it out properly. It worked good when it was used right, but that was the point. Skill based perks are supposed to have the most reward. The problem was the bias it created when used successfully against the killer. It was a triggering perk, but most things in gaming are when you're outplayed.
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