General Discussions
General Discussions
Is Devour Hope the new meta?
I swear I’ve seen it in 90% of my matches the last couple of days. Given the anti-camping feature and the removal of hook grabs is this gonna be the next big thing?
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Devour hope and slugging more than likely, when you completely remove the killer's ability to recover and get back into the game in any way shape or form in the end game this is what you're going to end up with.
And let's be honest if you ever end up with base kit unbreakable, you should absolutely expect to see every form of insta kill and Mori in the game become the only meta that exists.
The more risky you make hooking survivors the less killers are going to want to do it.
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I decided awhile back that cleansing all 5 totems at the start of the match takes priority given how fast the match can change in favor of the killer if only even 1 totem is still up. I use a totem cleanse build to speed up the process but it doesn't always work out if the killer finds me before its done. Devour hope has to be dealt with as fast as possible given how quickly it increases the power of the killer. As far as how often I see it lately, I've had it used in about 10 of my matches the past week. It may have been used more often because you only know it was DH if you cleanse it after it powers up or you check the loadout after the match.
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Removing camping does not remove the killers ability to recover. It removes a ridiculously easy exploit they can use to turn the game in their favor. I’ve no problem with people bringing Devour Hope. It exists as it had before. I only brought it up because the rate I’ve seen it increased exponentially. I’d rather deal with that hex than lazy campers anyway.
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Removing hook grabs is the real problem because all it really does is ensure that survivors can get consequence free unhooks in the end game after the gates have opened.
I mean how would you like it if we removed the hatch?
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It wouldn’t bother me actually. I think it would be fair to remove hatch or at least require a key to use it. However, I’d want perks like Decisive Strike to be useable during endgame though.
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Furthermore, they aren’t consequence free unhooks. You can still injure survivors and if you’re camping you’re probably gonna end up with a hook trade rather than just a save.
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not if two survivors do the unhook, one takes the unhook hit, one bodyblocks, unhooker bodyblocks for both on the way out, basically a guaranteed escape especially with MFT + Hope in play right now.
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Good survivors require the killer to negate as many steps as possible for the win. Makes sense killers would gamble on a hex that cuts the effort necessary in half.
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Your job is to make sure there aren’t enough survivors for that to happen during endgame. If you can’t do that without camping and tunneling then it’s an issue on your part.
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An efficient team of survivors can pop all 5 gens in under 5 minutes with no speed boosts, almost every lobby I play in now has at least two, usually three or four tool boxes and every survivor usually runs one generator speed perk.
One hook can take anywhere from 45 seconds to 90 seconds against a competent survivor assuming they don't have any perks to prevent this. Killers need a bare minimum of nine hooks to consider a match a win, so at a bare minimum about 405 seconds or about six and a half minutes.
A truly efficient team will have three people and three different generators and one person being chased intentionally, trading one hook for three generators in the first 90 seconds of the game. At which point one person can come off generators and start getting chased and hopefully lose the killer long enough to make the unhook just as both generators pop.
The math is just flat out against killers when it comes to objective timers.
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The current state of the game basically guarantees 4 survivors still alive if they are a well coordinated team, especially SWF. unless you are playing nurse or blight.
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detective hutch+green map with no add-on+counter force can obliterate any totem build in the game. All you need to do is complete 1 gen and all totems will be highlighted with the map. Counter force can go up to 100% cleansing speed so even thrill of the hunt can be erased very quickly.
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Try playing solo queue - it almost never works out the way you describe. Even the tiniest mistake can be a disaster for you or your teammates.
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I never said it couldn’t be countered. Overzealous + Counterforce is a great combo. I don’t run the same builds constantly though because I find that boring. You never know what you’re gonna go up against.
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I don't disagree, but it's an even worse disaster to balance a game around it's worst players.
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i don't really play much vs devour hope. so no comments.
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Hopefully.
REJECT USEFULNESS. ACCEPT DEVOUR HOPE
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Except soloq is not inherently the worst players, its a totally different type of game. You can try to balance around 4 SWFs, but that's a fraction of the player base.
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Might as well remove it for as situational and janky as hatch "gameplay" has become now. Remove keys as well, they literally serve no purpose other than something cool in your hand in the lobby.
If that's your argument, you need to do better.
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Laughs in chainsaw
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Injure them lol. And if there is more then 2 survivors alive it's GG EZ as they shft W to the exit gate scott free. Unless your Nurse, Blight, Spirit or have STBFL.
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Yeah, I used to do this, then the boon meta took hold and people started getting pissy when totems got broken, but now that CoH is garbo I'm just going to go back to busting any bones I come across.
Like OP, I've seen a lot of Devour in recent days.
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Well… two things.
1) these players in solo queue aren’t necessarily the worst. No one is perfect and we all make mistakes but in this game making a mistake while playing solo queue can mean game over. When communication is cut off chaos will ensue.
2) I feel like a lot of posts I see here are trying to do exactly what you described - balance the game around bad players. Most posts saying nerf this or blah blah are teeming with an arrogance that their own play styles could never be the problem. There are some things in this game so imbalanced that one side can perform a feat with ease while the other has no decent way to counter it. But those aren’t the only things I see brought up - most of the time is literally everything else. Most players would rather have the game altered to fit what they prefer doing versus adapting their play style to counter various others. That will never change.
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Exactly. Injure them. Yknow… like you’re supposed to do instead of getting a free grab.
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I've been running devour for a while. I figure at worse, someone is wasting time breaking it. At best I get 3 stacks and start snowballing lol.
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yeah I've been seeing lots of killers run devour and noed recently, did I miss something?
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As extremely powerful as it is I kind of like the thrill of it. Once it gets exposed it’s “awww ######### I gotta hussle and take that totem out!” If no one does we can say goodbye and on to the next one😂
On a side note, I didn’t bring this up because I have a problem with this perk or with it becoming a more common thing. I just found it interesting because it was not something I often saw and I imagined it correlates to some of the upcoming changes. Hopefully this is a good sign as those that felt they needed to rely on camping will challenge themselves to new playstyles and become better killers.
Post edited by EQWashu on1 -
What's the problem? it's not like devour is strong or anything, it's good but generally just 14 seconds removed from a survivor.
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Never once said there was a problem. But, um, it’s VERY strong. Like any hex perk it’s high risk and high reward but it can turn any game into a complete massacre.
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It's not a free grab. You have to time it right? Do you play killer? I don't think you do.
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when you completely remove the killer's ability to recover and get back into the game in any way shape or form in the end game this is what you're going to end up with.
Why would killers deserve to get this 'comeback' mechanism in the first place?
If the killer has six hooks by the time the first gen pops, the survivors don't suddenly get showered in BNPs, either.
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To be fair it’s pretty much always been the best hex secretly imo
Just ruin is garbage so it’s place has been taken
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Yeah, Devour needs a nerf lol
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I think there's a really simple explanation.
People bought a lot of killers on the iri sale, and they want to do the mori while also bringing cakes.
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I do actually. You don’t have to time it right at all - if the survivor is in the middle of unhooking they will get grabbed. If they choose to let go so as not to get grabbed then they will get hit instead. That will give them a second to finish unhooking but will give you another hit and wham you just got another hook. The only challenge might be if the survivor you just hit backs away so that another healthy survivors can wiggle in and do the unhook. Still, if that’s the case you have at least 3 ppl wasting time with you and chances are you’re going to down or engage in chase with one of them. Maybe you should try playing the other side as it’s far more difficult for a survivor to pull off a successful unhook with a camping killer than it is for a killer to get a grab.
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Dead Hard: Activates after a hook.
Blood Rush: Activates on death hook.
Breakdown: Activates on being unhooked.
Decisive Strike: Activates on being unhooked.
Deliverance: Requires an unhook action, therefore requires a survivor to be hooked.
Fast Track: Gains a token every time another survivor is hooked.
Left Behind: Activates when all other survivors have been sacrificed.
Sole Survivor: Gains tokens when survivors are sacrificed and fully activates when all are sacrificed.
Low Profile: Activates when all other survivors have been sacrificed.
Reactive Healing: Requires other survivors to be injured to heal yourself.
Renewal: Requires other survivors to be injured, and you to heal them, to heal yourself.
Solidarity: Requires other survivors to be injured, and you to heal them, to heal yourself.
Unbreakable/Soul Guard/No Mither/Exponential: Require you to be downed, in order to get yourself back up and gain a health state.
These are all 'comeback' mechanisms. Fast Track even does the exact thing you suggested, additional repairs for survivors being hooked. The thing is killer is one player against four. Killer perks are always going to be significantly more impactful than survivor perks, they have to be for this reason.
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None of those are core mechanical principles, they're perks. In the same vein, you could argue that the killer has plenty of comeback mechanisms in the shape of perks like Rancor, NOED, Blood Warden, No Way Out and more.
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I play both sides. I've been grabbed many times but also not grabbed many times. It's pretty 50/50. Maybe 60/40 in killers favor.
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Devour Hope is one of my favorite perks, I typically get a lot of traction out of it before its discovered and cleansed. Not always but often enough that I run it a lot. Especially on killers with no insta down ability.
Its a regular on my Trapper loadout.
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You make a fair point but there is nothing wrong with the endgame being just as threatening as the early game as a standard.
I mean that kind of excitement makes DBD fun.
Remember the damned if you do damned if you don't scenario that was DS/UB meta in the endgame.
You can't be picked up but you also can't be left on the ground and either way to get to run/crawl out the gate with impunity.
It was great to feel invincible as survivor but the lack of any real endgame threat was a bad thing.
A bit of campy playing off the hook grab kept things exciting in the endgame.
Do I go for an incredibly risky save or do I save myself and exit? These are the hard choices that you should have to make in a game like DBD.
Every time they make things safer they chip away at what makes this game great.
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Yes, I keep seeing Thrill, Devour, Penti, and Plaything more and more often.
Have you tried pairing it up with Thrill and Face the Darkness, and trapping the totems as well? It's almost impossible to cleanse them. It's very evil 😈
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I like the way you think that sounds like all kinds of nasty. 👍️
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GLHF ^^
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I agree with you… I think the risks make everything more fun and exciting. I don’t think hook grabs are part of that fun, risky gameplay. I think they’re just one more mechanic that incentivizes camping. It’s still a risk to go for a survivor when the killer is nearby - it’s just a more fair chance.
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I think most arguments for keeping hook grabs would disolve if the basekit BT effect couldnt be used offensively to tank the 2nd hit, aim dressing wouldnt do things like favor the person still on the hook, and other related issues were addressed. The whole scenario has grievances on both sides but it feels bad that only one side is being addressed.
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I guess, I didn't mind playing hook bait though from either side.
I just hope it doesn't completely undermine endgame hook play when combined with the built in BT. Or does that deactivate in the endgame now, something like that was proposed and I haven't really tested it in game.
Still it just makes 99'ing the gates that much more powerful if you can get a free unhook and combine it with the built in BT body block.
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It's been explicitly stated by the devs that the anticamping feature will be disabled in end game
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I've noticed a lot more NOED, but only slightly more DH. I don't mind it though. An impromptu totem hunt breaks the monotony
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And even then, Devour hope is a hex. Smart survivors will know when its being used, look for the totem and destroy it basically killing an entire perk slot for the killer for the rest of the game. Killers perk slots are WAY more valuble than survivor perk slots so the risk with using this will be very high. If it doesnt get destroyed, and the killer is doing his job, by mid game it should become quite dangerous. Permanent exposed is super nasty and just by itself could cause the game to snowball and thats only at 3 tokens. This is exactly the way hexes are meant to function, as high risk high reward perks.
That said, get any nonsense like "this perk is OP" out of your heads. Hexes are meant to be high risk high reward like this (speaking to everyone in general not you specifically, I know you never said it was OP).
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Devour Hope will never be meta unless the whole Hex mechanic gets a mindblowing rework at some point. The majority of hex perks is forgotten and in a really bad spot right now because of bad totem placements and the pretty high chance these perks get removed from the match early, before they do anything significant. If you have seen many uses of Devour recently, it was probably just coincidence, I believe I have only seen this perk once on the whole latest month, and I play a lot.
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