A practical reason to remove the DC penalty once replacement bots are implemented
I understand that in a perfect world, no one would DC ever and everyone would play the game to the fullest extent they could to have a good time and share that experience with the other players in every match. I also am well aware that we do not live in a perfect world and this is horrendously not the case. So here is my case for why to remove the DC penalty once the backfill bots are in the live version of the game.
Before we had a DC penalty, people would DC from any match they didn't want to play or actively weren't enjoying playing. This was obviously not pleasant for the remaining survivors, and it did not give nearly as many points to the killer as having killed actual survivors via hooks or mori. One of the initial penalties for DCing was that you got no BP for the match and you lost 2 pips. This seemed like a fair punishment. Do nothing, get nothing in return. This was not enough of an incentive, so as a stopgap, a DC penalty was implemented that would prevent people from playing the game for anywhere from minutes to days. While this did have the effect of reducing the number of players who would DC, it DRASTICALLY increased the number of players who would go out of their way to die on first hook or as quickly as possible. This had the same result of leaving the killer and survivors in a 3v1 match as someone who would DC. However, it instead, came with the incentive to use this method to leave because you would receive a couple thousand BP for simply existing in the match and getting chased one time to the hook and attempting to unhook yourself to speed up the process of dying on hook. The killer would get more points for killing a living target, and you would not get the DC penalty so you could immediately move onto your next match.
BHVR put so many man hours into creating and programming a solution that would help mitigate the trainwreck that is immediately being forced into a 3v1 because of a DC. Not only will a CPU replace a survivor that left, they have a pretty solid chance of being better and providing more support for the team than the person who didn't want to play in the first place ever would/could.
This brings me to my concern. If the DC penalty continues to be a thing, the incentive to simply go out of your way to die at first hook is made even more attractive, and the entire point of the bot replacements is rendered worthless because they won't replace a person who has died on hook. I understand the desire to punish people who DC, and I understand not wanting to incentivize the act of DCing. The problem is, that as it stands, DCing has a solution, killing your own survivor ASAP does not. So we will have an issue where if you DC, you get punished, but the team still gets support and a full team, or kill your survivor which guarantees the team will have a 3v1 and doesn't punish you in return. I'm trying to view this from the most practical angle I can, and although I hate when people immediately leave a game, at least when they DC I will still be able to play the entire match because of the new bot backfilling system. If the DC penalty stays in place, or as some people have suggested, be made even more punishing, then we are exactly where we stand now, where the most attractive option is to simply kill your survivor and force a 3v1. Please don't let the desire to punish those that DC be so strong and blind you that you would rather punish the bad guys at the expense of the victims instead of simply providing the support to survivors you worked so hard on and just ignoring the people who DC.
{Also for those who are wondering, I completely support the idea that the match should end if every single person has been replaced with a bot.}
Comments
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i disagree, DC penalty should stay. The bots are cracked and all but a real player is better. Also its no fun to face a bot, you know you didnt outplay it. it was just programmed to fall for your tricks etc no fun there.
I think 4% as a whole should be removed along with hook suicides. its a clutch mechanic thats completely uncounterable and skilless for such massive value. Its not like a deli or unbreakable proc where you had to bring the perk, it just happens. And then you can just dc without a penalty too. I think the best way to go would be to just remove all forms of hook suiciding and just have deli be the only way to self unhook, slippery meat too.
i actually think we should raise the dc penalty. In valorant for example dc penalty at base is 10 minutes if im not mistaken. In dbd it starts at like 10s. Goes to one minute, 5 minutes, 10 15 and so on. Its ridiculously low. if you are DCing for any legitimate reason then the penalty will be up by the time you are back. It should not baby people who just tilt and want to leave or dont like they got wesker for the 35th time today.
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The DC timers are actually longer than you think. Looking it up, it's 5 minutes, 15 minutes, 15 minutes, 30 minutes, 1 hour, 6 hours 12 hours, 24 hours, 72 hours, ban. DC a total of 10 times within 3 days and you have to start a new account. I know people with spotty internet who play the game maybe once a month to make sure they never reach or exceed the 72 hour penalty and ban. Like I said, I understand wanting to penalize people who DC, however, we already know the result of having the DC penalty which is simply to work around it and force people to have a 3v1 which could at least somewhat be mitigated with the bot replacements. I think people would prefer a 4v1 with a bot helper than a 3v1 with no solution. At least, I would.
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The DC penalty should actually be raised.
Starts at 15 instead of 5.
Even though bots replace survivors who DC, it doesn't mean the killer will enjoy chasing it around.
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It doesn't start at 15. Earlier I got a DC penalty (I won't get into why) for the very first time and it was only a minute. It unironically penalized my ability for matchmaking less time than it takes to get into a lobby once you start searching.
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I think he was suggesting that it start at 15. Also, the first penalty starts at 5 minutes. Very likely what happened was you spent some time on the results page or went to the bloodweb for a brief bit and by the time you were able to look at the penalty timer it had dropped to a minute. The penalty consistently starts at a 5 minute lock-out.
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No, the DC penalty should absolutely NOT be raised, for the exact reasons listed in the original post. People will simply resort to throwing on hook to dodge the penalty, and eliminate the disconnect bots in the process.
You simply cannot force people to remain in a match that they don't want to continue with.
Post edited by CrypticGirl on0 -
Well if the problem is people dodging the penalty, then remove the possibility to dodge it.
The bots are not for the ragequitter, but for the people he leaves behind. Their existence has NOTHING to do with the penalty a ragequitter should receive. If they prefer to dodge the penalty and deny their team their replacement bot, it just shows that the ragequitter doesnt care for the team.
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The issue is, if someone is going to leave a match, they're going to leave it. I don't care who the ragequitter is, I don't care how they feel about the team, I care about the result. I would rather have some semblance of chance of surviving a match instead of being forced into a 3v1 every time because the incentive is entirely on dying on hook ASAP right now. I think people are so focused on being mad at people with people who DC that they blind themselves to the end result. You want people to keep being forced into 3v1 situations so they can be salty at those who die early rather than give us a chance to survive using the new bots. I don't care about the person who leaves, I care about how it affects me. There are two things that affect me, a DC and an early hook death. That person is a jerk either way, but at least if they just opt to DC, my team has a chance to get something done and not immediately be snowballed. If hook throwing keeps being incentivized, I'm still stuck playing the same game I am, so what's the point of adding bots? What you're suggesting is like punishing the whole class for one bad student. If you keep that up, they're just gonna keep throwing the game on hook. I know that you don't like bots, but at the end of the day, they were made to help survivors. If we keep things as they are, nothing will change and I can't get any support when someone decides to bail.
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If there is no DC penalty, then bots are kinda pointless.
You will have everyone leave as soon first survivor leave.
Don't like killer? DC
Don't like map? DC
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That's actually not viable. I'd rather not be punished whenever I decide to sacrifice myself so that the last teammate can get hatch, or my teammates can focus on escaping if I get first or second hook in endgame.
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Actually, the bots are kind of pointless because of the DC penalty. People will instead throw on hook to avoid the penalty and prevent the bot from replacing them. That's the entire point of the post (for those who don't want to read the "paragraph vomit" as one person described). And it will be made even worse if the DC penalties are raised as some people are suggesting.
Post edited by CrypticGirl on0 -
Right now DC penalty is a thing and I still see DC more than hook suicide.
Bots are still an improvement. Without DC penalty, some killers would be unplayable, just because survivors instantly DC an killer is left with bots.
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I'd prefer bots to replace survivors that have obviously gone out of their way to die on first hook. It wouldn't be easy to implement though as sometimes people are genuinely trying to unhook themselves.
Or maybe just get rid of the whole self-unhook mechanic once the anti-facecamp self-unhook is in place.
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If they can't tell the difference between a DC on purpose and an accidental DC, I doubt they can tell the difference between a bad player and someone purposefully playing bad to throw the game. Also, punishing new survivors for trying to unhook is just kind of mean. Or as someone said, throwing the game so the last survivor can get hatch, which I would argue is an altruistic action that shouldn't be penalized.
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Sadly you can´t drop the penalty.
To much would dc instantly.
I have a lot of matches i don´t like but i never dc. At least try. Maybe you learn something.
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I'm not the guy DCing. I'm the guy getting screwed. And frankly, people are going to leave whether I like it or not. So I would rather they DC and I get a bot that could do gens or at least function as a distraction than someone who just throws the game. I don't "learn a lesson", I just get punished for existing in a match. That's what I'm trying to say. I'm trying to be realistic and recognize that at least one way I get punished less for people leaving.
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DC penalties do not prevent people from giving up.
No matter what you do, there is no way to make someone who has decided they want to stop playing, to continue playing. They will just hook suicide. You remove kobes/hook suicides and they just run at the killer and let themselves be killed. If the killer ignores them they just wait around and do nothing until the match is over.
Once someone has decided they don't want to play anymore, there is nothing the game can do that will force them to play. Once DC replacement bots have been implemented, DCing so you get replaced by a bot should be the encouraged method of "no longer playing" because it is what minimizes the damage to the victims.
DC penalties should only be used for repeat DCers who are frequently DCing from matches. Essentially the penalties should be made much lighter than they are now. Enough to discourage mass DCing from matches, but thats it
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Bots are not meant to be actual replacements. They are just their to keep a body in the game so it's not just a 3v1. We don't need to remove the penalty because the game isn't meant to be killer vs bots
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Bots *are* meant to be a replacement. Bots are designed to solve the problem of an imbalanced number of players. If you keep making throwing the game more attractive than disconnecting and giving the victims at least the most basic chance of surviving a match, you're saying you would rather the living surviving players have no chance of surviving and escaping to make sure the killer has a better time.
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To anyone advocating for no DC penalty now bots are gonna be a thing:
We can't have bot killers, cause who wants to play vs. A bot killer? So when a killer gets looped to death, 1 hook, dabbed on, teabagged and alike, are you against the killer DCing?
If your answer is yes, the you have no argument for survivors leaving "cause they don't wanna play'.
If your answer is no, have you ever been on the cusp of an achievement or tricky tome challenge that required you to escape, just for the killer to DC and rob you of that completed entry? Would you say that is fine and part of the game?
No? Then stop asking.
DCers are childish scumbags who should expect a paddling, not a slap on the wrist like they currently are. If you don't wanna commit to the game, dont queue. That simple.
Regarding the suicide on hook argument, it's not unreasonable, but regularly receiving multiple reports for suicide on hook should warrant a heavy ban in of itself. Add sub options to the reporting options and have this as an option. Too many of these unsportsmanlike -> suicide on hook reports? Hefty ban.
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It was updated in one of the previous patches
It starts at like 30 seconds
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I haven't seen anything stating that tome challenges and achievements are invalidated/turned off if someone is replaced by a bot. So in that case, I'm actually fine if a killer disconnected and was replaced with a bot. I might very well have an improved chance to get said challenge/achievement playing against a bot if I'm being completely realistic.
Also I'm not entirely sure the reporting system is all that great for solving the suicide on hook situation considering the amount of people who report for absolutely nothing. I've gotten unsportsmanlike reports for playing as Doctor, for finding hatch when the team died, for using perks people didn't like, for being bad at looping and being tunneled by the killer, etc. The number of valid reports they receive is probably a drop in the bucket compared to the countless pointless reports they get, and the main thing they seem to be focusing on right now is cheaters, not players who don't play the way you like.
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