For/Against Removing The DC Penalties When DC Bots Get Introduced?
Arguments For PC Penalties Being Removed:
- Better to have a Bot that wants to play the game and progress the objective RATHER THAN a Player who does not want to play the game and doesnt progress the objective.
- PC Penalties are pointless since you get off yourself on hook anyways. If that doesnt work, you can just run into the Killer and get yourself killed.
- If PC Penalties still exist, people will continue to find ways to get past it regardless of what BHVR does, the only way for PC Bots to be effective if for people to choose to DC over other options.
- DBD is a more casual game, and DCing should be allowed because of that.
- Entitlement already exists and will continue to exist going into the future, having the ability to DC will ensure that matches are not ruined as a result of entitlement.
Arguments Against PC Penalties Being Removed:
- It ruins the gameflow by replacing a player of any skill level with a potentially better/worse player (Bot).
- People who play with certain Killers/Builds do not get a normal gaming experience.
- Other things that ruin gameflow, such as the ability to off yourself on hook, should also be removed.
- Matches should be taken more seriously, and DCing should also be taken more seriously as a result.
- Enabling DCing lets more entitlement come into the community, since people can easily refuse to play against a certain pieces of content entirely if PC Penalties were removed.
So what are your thoughts on this topic? Should DC Penalties be removed or stay the same after DC Bots are added?
Comments
-
DC penalties need to stay. We don't need killers and survivors shopping for the ideal games they want.
28 -
I've said it before, I'll say it again. Bots aren't there so you can DC just cause you mindgamed yourself and the killer played you like a fiddle. They're there to pick up the slack you refuse to because you refuse to play anything less than a perfect game.
Aggressive, but you get the point
25 -
Double down and make it harder to troll/get out of games and you will see the people who do it often quit the game eventually leading to a healthier playbase.
- Make DC penalties harsher
- Remove self unhook and skill checks for second stage
- Add a system that starts giving you penalties when you get absurdly low points outside of chase/hook/the ground. Just to be safe lets say you need 50-100 hours for this system to start working
Now dcing is something you don't get to do for free twice a day and people can't get out of the game for free either. AFKing and trolling would also be negated this way. Yes, I get that it's frustating to go against SM and condemn onryo but just stop playing for the day.
10 -
A bot isn't a valid replacement for an actual player, it just lessens the blow for the rest of the survivor team. Against.
I do think a little leeway could be given for DC penalties in general though, bots or no bots. I would like to see the penalty halved for the opposite role you last DC'd on.
E.g. if you DC as a survivor and get a 30m penalty, then after 15m you can queue as killer. It'll have the same 'cooling off' effect and encourage players to play both roles and 'see it from the other side'. It might be better at changing player behaviour than a blanket DC penalty that keeps them playing only one role all the time.
6 -
They need to stay but I think the problem is going to be survivors will just kill themselves on hook anyway, so effectively it will not be much different than a DC without bots
0 -
I do not agree with the 3rd point.
Sometimes, you get hard tunneled and you barely get any points because the Killer wants to remove you from the match, you barely get any points. How exactly do you punish people who run to the Killer without punishing Survivors who are getting tunneled?
3 -
If anything I'd make the DC penalties harder, remove the RNG unhooks that let you remove yourself from the game and give significantly more bloodpoints to people on hook (portion of bloodpoints teammates are earning).
Bots are a necessity but they are still not fun to play against or with, we don't want to increase that. DC'ing would skyrocket. People can't be allowed to just shop for their winning matches.
I play significantly more than 99% of players and the amount of games that are genuinely toxic and worthy of someone DC'ing are extremely rarer than people like to pretend.
I'm honestly even surprised this conversation has been coming up a lot lately. Like if we hypothetically removed DC's why would a killer for example just not instantly leave every single match he didn't get a good start on instantly? Why wouldn't they spam leave to drop their MMR?
Just so many problems with removing or lessening the DC penalties. I don't see how people could be in favor of this as the cons just way, way outweigh the pros.
2 -
Only a few days ago I was ambushed by a Lethal Pursuer Bubba and downed before I had a chance to do a damn thing. I walked away with around 250 BP.
4 -
They need to be kept but they need to be reviewed. Sometimes you get disconnected due to internet or technical issues and that’s not your fault.
0 -
Then they shouldn't play at all. And the DC penalty will dissuade them of doing that. "I can't DC anymore, so I'm just not gonna play"
9 -
I disagree with every argument you listed in favor of removing the DC penalty, but unless you want me to detail my thoughts I'll just stick with one point everyone seems to ignore in the "bots are introduced so we should consider deleting the DC penalty" debate:
Killers aren't getting replaced by bots.
Even if you think survivors should be allowed to DC for free because they're getting replaced by bots, killers won't be, and killers DCs don't "just" ruin the game, it literally ends it. Remove the DC penalty and survivors will never make it through the exit gates because killers would just DC when they lose. 2 gens done before first hook ? DC. Flashlight save ? DC. No time to stop survivors from opening the gates ? DC.
(and even if people were trying to get the DC penalty removed for survivors only it would still be a terrible idea in my opinion)
14 -
Because those people should just stop playing if they aren't going to attempt to play out games for whatever reason. The general game experience would be much better if people who didn't actually want to play DBD would stop queueing up.
14 -
how to kill a game
step 1
8 -
Players that want to remove the DC penalty need to take a break.
A long break too not a couple of day, but a couple of months.
Seriously they are other games to play then just Dead by Daylight.
6 -
I'm for removing the penalty.
5 -
>Killers aren't getting replaced by bots.
I definitely think there could be different DC penalties for killer vs. survivor. Heck, if you get a DC penalty for survivor, I think you should still be allowed to queue up as killer.
However, if the killer DCs, the survivors get 7000 BP as if they had escaped. So, yeah, it "ends" the game, but it hands you a win on a silver platter! You don't even have to work for it!
So, I'm kind of anti-DC-penalty for killers, but for a totally different reason than survivors...
0 -
Everyone seems to think what their opinion on DC penalty removal from both sides is correct (no one is changing anyone's mind form what I have noticed) but no one really truly knows what would happen. They can only assume and speculate. I think after this next update and a month has passed, BHVR should remove DC for a period of time - like a week or two, nothing crazy. Then see what happens. I'm honestly mixed on it because I really don't know what will happen and I can see where both sides are coming from. Lets do a trial run of it.
When I played PTB, DC penalty is removed (it's like that for all PTBs) and I didn't even noticed someone DC'd and a bot was playing until the end. I will say bots are a lot better than they were when first introduced.
3 -
I think that'd be a good experiment.
3 -
The DC penalty has been removed on several occasions. We know what happens. It's not good.
9 -
Ya'll know damn good and well what will happen. Why are you even asking?? You think lobby hopping is bad? Go ahead and enable game hopping too.
5 -
I'm against it. Players already disconnect fairly often. There really is no need to increase that rate even more.
If players were allowed to dc on a whim that would not only happen like once every 5 games but probably a vast majority of games. Someone is going to find a reason to disconnect. Maps, items, addons, killers, play styles, small mistakes, team mates, rng and offerings. Just pick one. Someone will find one thing at fault and just disconnect. Then 1 disconnect would lead to the next and so on and the killer would be left to play against bots or also dc.
2 -
You shouldn't get to choose your killer.
3 -
I'm all for these experiments, like that time they deleted Bloodlust for a week (or weekend I can't remember exactly). Tbh big changes should be tested live rather than be confined to the PTB, which doesn't represent the live game accurately for many reasons.
0 -
I feel as though the current time out penalty should be exchanged for a BP gain penalty, e.g. 50% penalty for the next few matches.
1 -
How would you like a game update every time you logged in? No? Me neither. That's what PTB is for.
1 -
I'd be fine with disconnect penalties being removed of they are replaced by people who dc are put into lobbies only with others who dc regularily. That way, those who are persistent offenders get to experience consistently the annoyance of playing with like-minded people.
If someone disconnects a set number of times, I'd also make sure a visable "prestige" is shown for that person, so others know of their disconnects, for a set period of time. That would be a ban effectively anyway; even on these proposed servers, people would think twice about facing someone like that.
Either way, a deterent needs to be kept in place. In most cases, those who disconnect are probably the same people who teabag at the exit gates or hit a survivor on a hook repetitively anyway, so I don't have much sympathy for that majority of people who disconnect.
2 -
Dc should be lessen but still there.
also you should have made this a poll tbh
1 -
Dc's go up, hook suicides, AFK's and throwing players go down.
That's pretty much exactly what you want in this system. A bot won't replace those players who suicide, AFK or just throw. It will replace people who DC.
It's also fairly likely that the DC penalty being removed has a novelty factor. 99% of people probably weren't around when the game didn't have penalties, so it's a new shiny toy for them. That will fade after time.
4 -
I'm obviously not saying we should test everything in live game. Only the big changes that PTB wouldn't be suited to give feedback about. Like no-Bloodlust was tested live because there's no MMR in PTB so even if people played seriously the statistics wouldn't have reflected the ones obtained from live game.
It would be the same thing for DCs, there's already no penalty for it in PTB so you can't actually test it there, and PTB doesn't have any impact on your live game account so it's not like you'd even miss out on your game rewards or whatever.
0 -
Your name suits you well. 😂
0 -
For it, personally. No point playing it out if everyone DCs and all that's left are bots.
Would rather play with and go against real players.
Plus, if it's a Skull Merchant making the game last an hour or a slugging Nurse struggling to slug and won't pick, I don't want to stay. They can have fun with the bots. I want to have an actual game.
2 -
you know for sure you'll see killers dc the second they load into a "lovely" map. and survivors will leave their place to bots after the smallest inconvenience so no, i'm against removing the penalties.
6 -
"Plus, if it's a Skull Merchant making the game last an hour or a slugging Nurse struggling to slug and won't pick, I don't want to stay. They can have fun with the bots. I want to have an actual game."
What about when you get a killer that you dont like? Or a map? How many survivors will DC when they see the knight?
0 -
And if one or two survivors disconnect killers just got handed a much easier game.
I had a match today where literally 2 seconds after we loaded into Midwich the killer (Mastermind) disconnected. I didn’t wait through the loading screens and queue time just to get 7000 BP for doing nothing. I’m playing this game because I WANT TO PLAY THIS GAME. I don’t care if Wesker doesn’t like Midwich - he deserves the penalty just as much as any survivor would because he’s robbing us of the gaming experience.
2 -
You didn't read my post right. I said outside of chase/hook/on the ground. It would be factored in by the minute instead of the whole match.
0 -
Every big multiplayer game:
4 -
If someone dcs at the slightest of inconvenience for free. I may just follow. I didnt come to play this game to play with bots for majority of my time. Bots should be for when a player takes it too far and just dc or if it was on accident. I wanna play with real people. Not bots most of the time.
6 -
If you get hard tunneled out you'll still land at least 7-8k points. I think this needs to be consistent, multiple matches worth of getting less than 5k for example. That would indicate that you are doing something you shouldn't be. It also shouldn't be based off a single match, but a pattern of behavior.
2 -
The penalty needs to stay. This is a 4v1 multiplayer game and I don't want games where I'm playing a 1v1 with 3 bots. The bots are to help support the good players for sticking it out and the penalty is there to deal with the bad players who are not being respectful and throwing the game for the team.
10 -
I would be more open to removing it if there was a backfill mechanic to replace your bots with players looking for games, but we all know that's never going to happen. Until then, the
DeathDC penalty it is.0 -
I think the penalty should stay but be lessened quite a bit. I see no good reason to have a 72hr penalty and should instead cap to a few hours or so at most.
0 -
Even so what happens then is you queue up for the next game and move on.
0 -
How ironical, the same forum crowd who regularly explains us how facecamping/slugging are valid strategies and "Your fun isn't my responsibility", is now also claiming that DC penalties are very important and BHVR must do everything in their power to prevent survivors from dodging their matches. Of course we understand that it's important for you, that the person who gets facecamped for 2 minutes is a real player and not a bot. But don't worry I'm sure you will "adapt" and find a more healthy playstyle after 10 games of facing bots.
Also good to know that "lobby shopping" is apparently a big problem when survivors do it, meanwhile killers were able to do it for years, why did I not see you guys complain before?
4 -
How exactly is it my fault if the Killer wants to hard tunnels me?
Im not talking about people running into the Killer or making obvious mistakes, Im not talking about tunneling for pressure, Im talking about actually focusing a player to remove them from the game and deny them Bloodpoints because they hate that player.
Ive had MANY matches where Killers get looped for too long and throw the match to kill me specifically because they were too stubborn to chase someone else. And in most matches I die with barely any points while my teammates can easily escape.
The idea that people get punished based on the amount of Bloodpoints they earn will just create more toxicity, where certain Killers will go out of their way to deny as much points as possible to a certain player to punish them.
3 -
But bots were not a thing. The only reason we are having this conversation is because of the introductions to bots replacing DCs
0 -
But what will happen if you play with bots? Will it be better than someone dying on hook, AFK, or just walking around doing nothing? These are things you don't know yet and only assuming - we all are. No one actually knows if it would be best for the game overall. We know what DC penalty will do if it was enabled right now, but not with the bot update. That's the point.
0 -
Not everyone can PTB and not everyone uses the PTB. It would only update once and stay for a week or a few days or whatever. It wouldn't be an update every time you log into the game.
0 -
Devil's advocate: you shouldn't get to choose which survivors you go against and what items they bring. But you can and lobby dodge. And if that is okay then survivors should be able to lobby dodge a killer before a game starts by having the lobby showing them who the killer was?
1 -
Removing the DC penalty means the amount of people DC-ing will increase because there is no punishment to DC and no incentive to not DC. In the long term, this will mess with the data gathered from trials which may lead to more balance mistakes from the devs because there is a bot in every other game.
People getting annoyed at the DC penalty works both ways, a Survivor can also get annoyed at the Killer DC-ing because they will have to spend more time waiting for another game or might even depip at higher ranks because the game did not go on long enough.
Maybe instead of trying to argue the validity of DC penalties with shallow points, you could think of the long term advantages and disadvantages removing the penalties would have on everyone?
1 -
Why wouldn't bots make it worse? When the dc penalty was removed players would dc a crazy amount even though they knew it was ruining the game for others. With bots you are not ruining the game by making it a 3v1 making players not feel guilty leaving games like before where it was already really bad. You would see an increase to the dc amount and bots will fill the void so it won't be as bad of an experience but you are not playing a PVP to face bots.
1
