A Skull Merchant?
I want to hear with what people has to say about this. What do you think of this? (https://twitter.com/HensDBD/status/1682721291667750912?t=iXVG_jcp8p4DXWTcBrwb0w&s=19)
Comments
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There's already a thread about it but yeah this is probably the straw that broke the camel's back in regards to Skull Merchant. BHVR can't do nothing in regards to SM and it probably needs to be sooner rather than later because what occurred yesterday shouldn't be possible.
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Yeah I watched the entire 50 minute match.
The killer just spends the entire game kicking gens and barely chasing, trying to get the server to close at 1 hour. They kicked gens over 110 times!
The killer was pretty inexperienced (especially compared to the survivors) and messed up a lot. If he was more experienced he probably could've reached the 1 hour mark.
Skull Merchant definitely needs a rework.
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Here's the video:
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I'm glad nobody wants to play this killer. I haven't seen one in months and I am very happy about that.
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They've already announced an upcoming update to SM, and that they're working on a solution to excessively long 3 gens as a whole. They're not doing nothing, don't worry.
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Problem with this is that the dev are planning on fixing her and this might take either the next chapter or mid-chapter. Is crazy that she get a pass on this upcoming update but surely they have a reason for it. For now, let just deal with this strats for the next three month.
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I played her to do all the achievements and I never resorted to this but the trouble is there are always those people who will take full advantage of any mechanic that can cause misery for others.
Hens' vid shows how bad the problem is and I encountered yet another one of them today and honestly its easier to just get out of the match asap so you can have an actual fun game.
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She needs her own update update solely just to change her. No need to wait so long to fit in her changes into some random update so far away. The situation with her was handled so terribly by BHVR it's appalling.
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I say a simple and easy way to nerf her is to prevent her from kicking gens while she's in the drones area. And the effect lingers for 15 seconds when she leaves it. That way she cant hold 3 gens effectively. And if she tries, she loses more time.
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This is a case where I dislike being right.
She's so problematic that she does need to be removed until they come up with a better design because this is ridiculous.
The ONLY reason she lost was because of inexperience. Had she had 500 more hours (i believe she only had 800 total) she would've won.
If that is what an average pub SM can do to the BEST PLAYERS IN THE WORLD....then what is she doing to regular players?
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I agree with Hens, I do think her 3 gen play style needs a major nerf and she needs buffs in other areas as composition. As someone who likes SM I would like to see her get a rework of some sort. At least he not being over dramatic and calling for her to be removed or Killswitch tho. Some of the ppl on this forum are way to extreme about things. Yes the killer needs changes but killswitching her isn't the answer.
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All the Survivors fault that they went into this situation. /s
I mean, this cannot be more clear how problematic Skull Merchant is. This is a non-tournament player against the best team in the World. They will probably win all of their games if they play this Build in normal matches.
Yeah, I also said this right from the start - she should be killswitched and reworked. With a Refund-Option if people dont like her new design.
And I never said this about anything in this game. But Skull Merchant is really the worst design. I dont really know how they thought it was fine when they tested it.
There is really a big difference between 3-genning and not 3-genning with her. When I brought her to P9 (and I will never play her again), I did not 3-gen from the start. However, when there was an opportunity and I was about to lose, I used my Drones. And even if it was not a perfect 3-gen, it is laughable how much the game shifted from me almost losing to me winning without a real chance for the Survivors. And how long the games took because of this...
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You know what this reminds me of? That time the community needed to bullt squad matheiu cote himself with instablinds just for them to be nerfed.
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Imagine that! Using your power to help you win, helps you win. It's almost like everything about her is stuck in her drones and not using at all or using them outside of the most optimal way heavily impacts her ability to function.
I play Skull Merchant as a stealth chase killer and that has only really been possible thanks to running two purple addons. Trying to do that without purple addons was significantly worse meanwhile 3-gen is extremely effective since you get the benefit of your power most of the time and can be done without using any addons. That's the problem that needs solving and it doesn't require killswitching a killer or even absolutely decimating her kit to the point where a refund option is necessary.
If this team is the best in the world and still got held for nearly an hour by someone with far less experience than them then I would question whether or not they should be called the best in the world.
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Nah, you should rather question the design of the Killer. I mean, I know that people like to pretend that Killers have to have at least 180 IQ to play, because it is sooo hard. But setting up Drones on Gens and returning to the Gens when someone is near them is not really hard to do at all. Basically everyone can do that.
Skull Merchant is just a failed design. And if many players notice this at the PTB, I have to suspect that BHVR did not really look carefully at their own design when creating it.
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Imagine if he was a main killer these days LMAO.
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Eruption, Overcharge, Jolt and Opression all about to get nerfed..
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The fact that many killers complaining about the average swf teams that impossible for them to win.
Then defense an average SM that able to stall a 50min match against the best swf team is just speechless. You simply can make the list of them so you try not to argue with them by any mean after this.
I once said if Devs buff killers so that a skill of 5 Killers win against a skill of 6 team and then lose to a team with skill of 7. They would ask for more buff because they're still struggle. Then after another buff they would win against the team 7 but lose to a team 8. The complaining cycle will repeat.
They just dont discuss for balance, they discuss for average killers to win the best survivor.
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Im sorry but there have been like 3 people defending SM, I am a very biased killer main and I understand how problematic she is and how flawed her design is as a whole.
Even some other killer main here and in thr other thread discussing this match have expressed their not very good opinion on skull merchant.
You are literally taking 3 or 4 comments and extrapolating incredibly high.
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Usually people pass by comments that they may not agree with but they're on the same side, and focus/remember on those opposite (which you could passed by them and I focused more on seeing those defense 3 Gens SM before the Hens' vid).
I saw alot, especially befor Hens' vid
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Surely you realize there's an implicit bias at work here if the conclusion you're drawing is that Eternal must not be that good. This is a team that has won 70+ tournaments and features players with nearly 10k hours who were held in a match for 50 minutes by a player with 800 hours. The killer totaled 4 *hook stages* in 50 minutes. And the conclusion you're drawing is that, clearly, the survivors must not be that good and the killer power is fine? Come on. This is completely disingenuous. It's not some sort of identity crisis.
Post edited by edgarpoop on8 -
It doesn’t matter because comp is less than 1% of the player base. Why should we care at all?
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BHVR should just killswitch her until she's completely reworked like they did with Haddonfield.
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Because it shows that even an average SM who has only played for 800 hours is able to hold the most skilled, comp death squad SWF in a 50 minute match and nearly win.
If you actually watch the match, you'll see that the only reason SM lost was because of inexperience. If Eternal had made one more mistake or if the SM had another 500 hours, the game would've been over.
You should care because this is an average player who uses a strategy so strong that it can lock the best players in the world for 50 minutes. How can anyone in Solo Q or even pubs SWF compete with that? They can't.
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This is like the Tru3talent videos that are supposed to show imbalance…..yet he wins the match. Woulda, shoulda, coulda. SM lost
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You do relieve how long that would be right? How long did it take for them to rework Sadako so her slug playstyle is nerfed? On right a year. How long have they been working on twins rework? Oh right over a year now. You and so many others are basically asking for a killer that ppl did pay for being kill switched for more than a year since this dev team doesn't have the time or resources to do a killer rework in a timely fashion. Honestly, I think every single one of you is so silly to ask for a killer to be killswitch by a team of devs at takes years to rework a killer.
That said I do think she needs a rework and I do think her 3 gen playstyle needs a major nerf. The thing is, unlike so many of you Im realistic about the capability of this dev team. It's unreasonable to expect this dev time to killswitch or remove something they have worked on for a year(it you believe that or not but AMA did say all killers take a year of dev time to do) for who knows how long. Plus what about those who paid for her and enjoy playing her? I'm one of those but I have never camped a 3 gen with her. I use a chase build with her two purple addons and I actually enjoy playing like that. I don't win that much but I do have fun doing so. All Im going to say is yes she needs a much-needed rework but she doesnt need to be killswitched or removed.
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Haddonfield was disabled for a few months when the rework was in progress. I don't see why SM should be treated any different.
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Here's a better question.
Can anyone show a video of a killer beating this team and not playing nurse, blight, or spirit, or doing some annoying strategy like this and just playing "normally"?
Or how about the fact that part of this killer's design is that when the survivors play like this they hear no terror radius, yet somehow they magically always know when the killer is going for them, because coms give them a massive advantage that you can't possibly ever get from perks?
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Because people didn't pay money for haddonfield and that was less about the rework and more about the fact that the map was constantly bugged. Any as a developer why waste time fixing bugs on something that is getting redone anyway.
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she lost because of gen kick perk nerfs. not inexperience. eruption no longer incapacitates you for 25 seconds and overcharge is weaker gen regression. also COB does not exist. I remember Ohtofu said that the reason why 3 gen are occurring was COB. survivor can break 3 gens but the 2.5% regression and those perks continue to be strong stalling game options in 3 gens. it also shows that there are many 3 gen maps that are have unfair gen spread. that is all it shows. it is not exclusive to skull merchant. you can test this out as blight and instead of losing after 50 minutes. you will win.
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It amuses me that people dismiss this while I can only imagine the shitstorm that the reverse would cause here.
"Best Killer for Team Eternal gets 3-outed after random pub Survivors do 5 gens in 3 minutes"
Anyways, did you actually watch the match?
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And do you know what the response would be here if that video were posted? “Meh, those survivors are rare so it doesn’t matter.” In fact, it’s very likely that you would be the first one to say that.
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Eh its a top .01 bracket game. Like if they 4 outed on a michael myers right with no hooks? (In all seriousness i do hate skull merchants very design but we do gotta remember this is the upper bracket against a fairly experienced SM. And everytime we see like a wraith or top myers face these guys its dismissed as upper 1%)
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I see it like this: As good as Eternal are I expect them not to be held hostage by a 3 gen Merchant. If you have that much of a numbers, time, and skill advantage I expect you to know how to break up gen clusters preemptively. If you're the best in the world and folks going to call you as such then expect folks to hold you to a higher a standard. I'm not saying they should never lose, but 3 genning as a strat has solutions to it, the addition of Merchant to equation necessitates making sure that you break things up as soon as possible and apply as much pressure as possible even if that means just yoloing.
I'm not gonna sing their praises about how great they are and how busted Merchant is when clearly they didn't execute on the day. I do not care about Eternal or any comp DBD team, I care about results and the things that led to the outcome of said results. I do not care about their accolades when there are people far less invested in the game than them managing crack a heavy 3 genning Merchant. It ain't like I've not seen the problems that she has that makes her function the way she does and how it is extremely negative for the game to be allowed to continue.
3 genning is a problem, Merchant's kit is also a problem, but Eternal also just flat out let her get away with doing the problematic thing. That's all there is to it, like Hens doesn't need to belabor the point that something is very wrong with aspects of her power design, it's obvious. Eternal losing to it when being at such a statistical advantage and basically having none of the typical issues facing the average pub survivor team is a failing more on them than Merchant's design or the person playing Merchant.
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The SM's goal was the win via server close.
They specifically didn't try to hook people.
Did you watch the match? Not all of it, I know people don't have that sort of time, but some of it at least?
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i watched all of it. 4 man server-close win condition was weakened specifically to prevent that. you need to win by hooking survivors. you can still server close but you need to kill 1 survivor to do that.
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I mean dont we see games of wraith and myers or twins face these guys and lose with no or few hooks and its just "its only the upper bracket" i would think most killers should have a ability to face even the top survivors if they play correctly. Im getting tired of it just being the same few everytime (saw the ghostface video and i was glad to finally see another killer do something)
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Here. Second match of Set 1 Eternal loses to Singularity's Ghostface. Iirc, it was a 4K at 2 gens left.
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Ah, is this one of those "games" where the survivors have a bunch of restrictions in place like what perks they can brin and addons and such? And where the tournament has some kind of "point system" in place that actually gives the killers and survivors different objectives than the standard one to earn those points?
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They were 10 minutes off of winning via server closes.
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Have you considered that you're point of view may also be wrong?
SM spawned in a 4-gen and never left it. There was literally nothing Eternal could do about that.
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It's a comp game, so yes?
Judging from our past conversations, that shouldn't matter because Ghostface shouldn't have the tools necessary to deal with even a pub team let alone a comp team.
But hey, I'm sure I can find other teams that have taken a set from them.
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I want to see even a single game, where they queue up in matchmaking and actually lose against someone not playing nurse blight or spirit and they aren't restricting themselves and are actually playing to win not to troll or get youtube clicks.
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i know that. if you use slightly different perks, skull merchant could tunnel dan out and create a 3vs1 to do server-close win.
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I don't think they play much pubs.
I mean, KnightLight does as Killer. Zaka I think also plays pub Killer.
I don't think they play as a team in pubs.
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I think she had plenty of opportunities that she either didn't recognize or didn't care to take.
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Is the only problem with her how much she benefits from gen kick perks? I've never gone against her. Would NORMAL gen regression speed still be a problem or no?
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I think she had plenty of opportunities that she either didn't recognize or didn't care to take.
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Unlikely to be an issue.
She would still be an unreasonably strong 3-genner, but the game would end if she was using stuff like PR or PGTW.
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If average public match Survivors could 3-out against the best Killer in the world, that would be a sign of a very serious balance issue.
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