General Discussions
General Discussions
Why is BHVR nerfing Sadako?
Why is Sadako being nerfed in the next update when she is already weak enough as is?
Comments
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This is the problem with trying to boil every single update down into a strict nerf or a strict buff. The answer to your question is... they aren't! They're reworking her!
It's not even that the intent is to make her weaker. The intent is to make her stronger! They just need to change a few things because it's not quite hitting the mark on the PTB, and that's exactly what the PTB is for. This way of looking at things is deeply unhelpful and actively obscures what's going on.
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We haven't seen the post-PTB changes yet. With the amount of feedback she got, I'd imagine the rework is getting some tweaks.
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i love playing condemt onryo but most of the time ppl just dcing (i can understand) cause i keep slugging them so they heal up and get more condemt isn't fun for them it's ok to change that but letting them keep bad is just ridiculous...no compensation or anything but don't forget it was the ptb, there are a few more things that can be changed if bhvr you leave it as it is then yes, it's clearly a nerf!
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Because BHVR is very bad at gameplay design and balance.
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Alright Mister Negative
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I can't help to imagine the devs loading in a match without a killer, doing all the gens and leaving.
And then they are like.. "this was fun, maybe gens could go a little faster".
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Last stats we got Sadako had like top 3 highest killrate so that is probably why.
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Little off topic but anyone else think it's strange we haven't seen the post PTB dev update? Usually they released a dev update a week before the live update saying what they changing from the ptb to live. I'm wondering if there will be any changes from the ptb.
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This has me a little anxious actually. The silence is making me think that they're going to go ahead with the Sadako changes.
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If it’s not in the release they will probably be in the bug fix patch like they did to skull merchant.
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I'm with you!!! I'm little worried they didn't listen to ppl feedback on her rework and she going to be released as it. Guess we find out next week.
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I haven't looked into the changes, is the brainless slugging condemned build going to still be viable or is it getting removed?
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I have more concerns than strength.
In the current Sadako game, you have the choice of either worrying about the surprise attack or removing the tape from the TV to prevent the surprise attack. Removing the tape will give you temporary safe, but the curse will bring you closer to death, so you'll have to keep feeling the pressure until you're done with the task of removing the curse.
The new Sadako also protects you from surprise attacks and warp curses when you pull out the tape.
Survivors can therefore quickly access the TV and keep the tape as a talisman.
The moment when another fear disappears from a horror game.
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Well, whatever they are doing, it is clear that it will make this killer even less appealing to play. Players won't pick her up for the 25% of a condemned stack any time she teleports, her "reworked" addons or her immunity to stuns as long as she is demanifested. The devs just made her incredibly boring by removing any skill expression she used to have and made her problems even worse. Slugging is now an even better option than before! If that doesn't scream: "bad design" I don't know what does.
And for the people that did play her before, it is cruel to take away everything that made this killer unique and replace it with a shallow and watered down version, that is ultimately less enjoyable than before. They basically give her the Freddy treatment, where regardless if she's stronger or weaker than before, she will no longer be unique, which begs the question: "Why? Why should I play Sadako over any other killer, that does basically the same but much better?"
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None of that translates into asking why BHVR would intentionally choose to make her weaker on purpose, because they did not make that intentional choice. They were aiming for improvement and fell short. That is what is relevant here.
I am not defending the PTB Sadako changes. That isn't what's happening here.
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You can still do it but not in the same way you could before.
Going forward, Ring Drawing will no longer work on slugs so you can’t spread condemned by forcing survivors to pick each other up that way. What you can do though is slug survivors holding tapes and continue downing them, because basic attacks inflict condemned on survivors holding a tape, and repeat until you can kill them, since slugging them doesn’t destroy the tape, only hooking them does (and hooking them spreads condemned to other survivors as well).
Personally I think they probably need to make it so that if you’re picked up from the dying state then the tape is destroyed with no effect. Then she probably needs some more adjustments (primarily buffs) elsewhere.
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It's going to be much worse! They basically incentivise slugging one survivor until they either bleed out or they finally get enough hits to fully condemn them. Otz tried it on the PTB and while it wasn't exactly overpowered, it was still better than anything else she could do.
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they nerfing sadako because survivor said she was unfun to play against. Now she can have twin-level pick-rate after the changes.
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shes the worst killer in the game.
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Maybe. But even then, they made it so much worse. I'd rather play against Knight every once in a while than having to play against even 1 more Dull Merchant, if you catch my drift. And I reckon I'm not alone with that opinion.
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everyone has their personal dislikes. 3 gen killers is a possible dislike. mori's or slugging is another possible dislike. either way, sadako is not looking good from PTB.
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She's really not. Don't misunderstand she isn't strong by any stretch of the imagination, but she's definitely not the worst. The amount of value she gets from being able to bypass bothering with hooks and just outright kill you is not to be undersold. She's bad, but she isn't worse than Trapper just mediocre.
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Negative, yes, but they are not wrong.
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And Nurse had the lowest kill rate... Stats don't explain everything about a killer, just because she had inflated kills from the slug condemn play style
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Then how come this game has survived for 7 years if they’re “bad at gameplay design” if they were really bad at balancing and gameplay this game would have died years ago.
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No competition + licenses.
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Yes I know that but could anyone see BHVR buffing a killer with a high killrate? This is why I think they nerf her because they look too much into these statistics.
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Licenses, the lack of competition and some good chapters. Overall BHVR do a good job on many things like somehow keeping the game engaging, getting the most iconic horror licenses, some great visuals and sound design. But you cannot deny how bad of a job they did with Billy, Freddy, Sadako, the last 3 killers, maps, perk design etc. BHVR aren't exactly known to hit the middle ground with these things.
Sometimes the devs seem to be so eager to meet everyone's expectations, that they forget to look at the bigger picture and how all of this might actually play out. That is the only way I can explain the changes to Sadako. Because just from reading the patch notes I already knew, that this would make her issues even worse (and I wasn't alone). And would you look at that, I was right. Because I considered how all of these changes would actually work together.
Some changes they made to Sadako were highly requested but they just don't fit together and the end result is another killer, that offers more safety than danger and has 1 particular play style to make up for it. The same as before, but worse.
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She will be if these changes go through. Complete embarrassment.
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She would not be. Like if you still want to do condemned it can still be done, but it requires more input from you and can't rely purely on slugging. People being protected from passive condemned gain while holding is tape is a substantial change, but so is being able to target folks with tapes to apply condemned progress directly.
Though the point is to have condemned be less of her only truly viable optimal playstyle and get condemned to be more a looming threat survivors need to address which should breakdown some of their efficiency in other areas. She stills something to improve her chase aside from not being able to be stunned while demanifested, but what's she is getting in the next patch is start in the right direction.
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Though the point is to have condemned be less of her only truly viable optimal playstyle
you mean be an m1 killer with lackluster chase that has to hook people 3 time? that is surely going to be super viable vs survivors that can loop.
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Trapper, Myers and Freddy would like to have a word with you
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I don't think it's difficult to see that they're simply trying to make her power more healthy for the game. Nobody likes playing against Ring Drawing / Iri Tape slugging Sadako.
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If they still go ahead with the ptb changes without tweaking anything, it goes to show that the PTB feedback section is a farce. The majority of the feedback from there acknowledges that her PTB form needs some changes.
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Has that ever happened? It's definitely not happened for any PTB in recent memory, unless I'm missing something.
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I did say that she also needed more help in the chase.
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From what I recall, Singularity received changes post PTB and even after he was released. However I’ve always had a feeling someone at BHVR doesn’t like Sadako based on her original and proposed kit. Fingers crossed.
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All killers have, and even PTBs that didn't have killers in them received changes before they hit live. That's just expected and par for the course at this point.
That's what I mean, in case it wasn't clear. The idea that a PTB would hit live without tweaks hasn't ever actually happened, to my knowledge.
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They're nerfing her cause she's overpowered.
A small stealth killer that can teleport across the map and mori people before they're even hooked isnt balanced.
Thats also why she has one of the highest killrates of all the killers in the game.
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Most the time they do make changes from ptb to live. The thing that has me worried is the fact we haven't seen what these changes are yet. Usually they release a dev update a week before the live update telling us all the things they made changes to and what feedback they listen to. We haven't seen that with this ptb. It making me believe they not changing anything and going to release everything as is from the ptb this week. We just have to see tho but I am worried.
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Myers and Fred are nowhere near the bottom of the tier list. Especially Tombstone Myers. Then again OnePumpWillie has shown us that nor is Sadako when used "correctly".
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When you take add ons into consideration, especially the strongest add ons, no killer can be considered bottom tier
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Dev update is here:
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I think the new Sadako, as done in the PTB, feels the changes to killer items the most. I really despise this changes and think that it should be removed, as it takes nearly all tactical decisions out of dealing with killer items, but I havn't actually heared many discussions about it. I guess because peeps hate Pinhead, and this change nerfs him hard, everyone seems to be somewhat happy with this and thats why it won't be reverted or anything.
Right now you can remove a tape and keep it as a talisman, while still keeping your normal item with you and not leaving it behind on the floor somewhere. Its like eating your cake and keeping it at the same time, not having to decide for one option or the other. Yes, technically you can't access your item while you are holding a killers item and using or dropping that one first, but the key part is that you still keep your regular item in your hand, not somewhere on the map.
And other stuff seems not well thought through, too. The other big one is that you can put the tape back into ANY TV set, not a specific one. This alone removes any sort of pressure. Yeah, if Sadako downs you with a tape in hand, you get a stack, but you are virtually save from the most eregious parts of the curse, so why should you bother?
One simple change could be this: holding on to a tape makes you save from the teleporter condemnation, but if you are downed while holding a tape, you get 2 stacks of the curse and on hooking everyone else gets 2 stacks. Also, either revert the change with the TV sets, so that you have to take the tape to a specific set, or at least make the interaction with the TV set take much longer, like 8-10s. Most kids these days would have no idea how to work a tape deck anyway, and you have to rewind them to the start or pay a fee, remember?
As a last thing, 4 stacks getting removed by a single tape and TV set interaction is really a lot. Maybe make it 3? Or even better 2.5, because we are already working with bits and pieces. And the TV sets are out of commission for so long ... the old Iri TV set add-on should be sorta basekit, ie after hitting a survivor after a sneak attack, turn on the latest 2 TV sets.
EDIT: I just read the new update on her and they addressed a fair ammount of the points that I critizised. So I will hold my breath and happily play and test her heavily tomorrow. Happy gaming.
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Just like with Billy. They seriously believe that this update is a "deep" adjustment that will lead to enhancements.
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Yeah, I saw the post on twitter. I still think they are very late on posting that XD At this point in time they should just have posted the patch notes but whatever. Still, tho there is barely anything that being changed. So my worries are still there for her. The CD changes are nice but I still don't think she going to be in a good place after this rework. I also can't believe they didnt change any of her addon changes. R.Watch still being nerfed is heart breaking and the irl tape is still going to feel like a must-used addon.
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The intent is likely make Condemned unviable as Survivors don’t like it. Which is being done. Any changes for the people who actually playing her are an after thought at best.
Condemned should be reworked to something other than a mori. Also after all this she STILL has her lullaby, stealth killer with a lullaby.
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If the intent would be to make Condemned unviable, they made some weird decisions. Holding tapes for insurance no longer being riskless, removing the ability to insert a tape during Sadako's weapon cooldown, making Condemned apply globally instead of to one person...
In short, if they wanted to make Condemned unviable, I'm not sure why they buffed it.
Agreed on the lullaby, though, that's still unnecessary.
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Well I had hope, and now after playing the new update my hope has vanished
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Because neither scenario actually happened.
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