How you feel about Sadako changes?
Comments
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Good changes overall, I think. TVs not being turned off for an eternity when you project to them is amazing.
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The TV cooldown being more than halved is humongous.
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Got my feedback on the feedback section on this,
They're pretty decent overall, just wish they could've done more in her kit
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Pretty positive. The tapes being destroyed on hit is a really impactful change, imo, it makes holding on to a tape for passive insurance basically a detriment to the survivor now.
Plus, more teleport is great, big fan.
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Good, but not enough IMO.
She could be given blight level of mobility, but it wont mean anything until she's somewhat threatening in chase. Which currently she isn't.
Plus, iri tape is still gonna be her best add on as being able to put tapes into any TV means removing condemn is far too easy and flexible for survivors. Plus it harms her mobility which is the literal only thing she has going for her.
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A pointless rework that's ruined the character for a lot of people
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Even if you get full stacks on survivor, they would take one hit and while you are in animation they would put tape to tv. And stacks removed, they are safe. This was pretty stupid. This change removed this as well.
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I left a comment right hear earlier and now its gone so I'm gonna write it again
I have my feedback on the feedback section.
They've done some pretty good changes overall, just wish they could've done more of her kit in my opinion
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I always thought calling sadako a bad dredge was incorrect due to the condemned build being better than anything dredge could do.
With these changes I think that comparison is way more accurate, she's pretty bad now.
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This dev update is so disappointing. Yes, this might make her slightly stronger than she was on the PTB. But they still didn't address like 80% of the concerns people had. I was absolutely positive they would un-nerf Reiko's watch after seeing how many people were baffled by that decision, but nope, not addressed at all.
And I was sure they would see all the feedback about the changes to her demanifested chase ability. But, again, nothing.
They spent a whole week putting together this Dev update, and this is all they came back with?
Sad for Sadako.
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Why did they remove the condemned stacks on hook? It doesnt make sense if you want people to feel incentivized to hook survivors and not just go for the Condemned kills via stalling.
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Im super dissapointed.
Me and a lot of other players have made a lot of suggestions and gave ourt opinions LOUD and CLEAR in the PTB - Feedback.
Almost NONE of it was heard.
Im so sad right now.
As someone who has put a ton of time into this character (from release - 4th on steam leaderboards) and that has put a lot of time into helping out with constructive feedback, im just dissapointed in bhvr.
I will not be playing her as much.
Sad to see it go.
--> Freddy 2.0
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She still is completely watered down and skillless compared to the original. Iri Videotape also still is a removed part of her original basekit that feels mandatory to run.
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This! I hate a slugging Sadako. Hate it.
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They changed Ring Drawing to not apply when healing a Survivor from the Dying state, which hampers that playstyle a lot.
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Still bad.
The cd of shut down tvs is simply to long for consitent hit&run attacks.
The advantage of holding a tape is still to strong in comparison.
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Still survivors can remove tape in any TV and 5 condemned stacks are removed with TV.
Also don't forget she has a critical stealth flaw, lullaby.
Whether she has a unique mori mechanism or not, she is just worse Wraith.
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Teleport cooldowns: good
Condemned changes: seems like even more of a nerf, but with how frequently you can teleport... probably works out ok on balance.
Condemnation should be more slowdown than actual risk of death (like Pigs RBTs) so the fact that you're unlikely to actually get to 7 stacks isn't technically a problem.
However... is it so unlikely that it doesn't actually serve as slowdown? Is there really a downside to just always carrying a tape?
If you're holding a tape you're protected, and if you get hooked you gain a maximum of 2 stacks. So you pick up another tape and if you get downed you gain a maximum of 2 stacks, 4 in total. If you just grab the first tape you see whenever you get the chance, you'll never need to deposit it. You'll never get more than 4 before you're dead anyway.
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RIP Sadako
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While better than the PTB version she’s still completely terrible. The main concerns and issues with her that everyone voiced pretty unanimously from both sides at that, have not been addressed.
Why does she STILL have a lullaby?
She has no real anti loop as her flickering is on the border of irrelevant and no stun while demanifested in practicality is going to do near nothing.
Condemned still isn’t a threat either.
So all she really has is mobility, which got better from the PTB, but still is worse than multiple other killers.
-Massively increasing the flickering on her demanifested and it’s linger to give some anti loop to it
-Remove the lullaby. How this is still present baffles everyone.
-Return the passive condemn while holding tapes
-Return making them go to the farther tv to drop off a tape. This change to any was bad.
This is all even just a start, she could probably use more.
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Pretty much this. They completely removed her high mobility face paced maco playstyle. Removing slugging for condemn by nerfing Ring Drawing was a great change but the complete condemn rework is boring. Instead of having to use skill and strategy to build up condemn it is now just given to you for free over time. Completely dull and uninteresting. All this in exchange for some slowdown which survivors can easily remove because they refused to implement feedback regarding TVs and tapes.
Overall she is just a less interesting killer that no longer standsout from the rest of the killer roster. You want slowdown on a m1 killer that is actually effective, play Pig. You want good map control with teleports without having cooldowns ontop of cooldowns, play Dredge. Onryo has nothing going for her now.
BHVR has taken what was my favourite killer which kept bringing me back to play this game and butchered everything interesting and fun about her. I can't see myself playing her much more and as a result I will likely be playing the game less as well.
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No CD in teleport BUT 10-15 seconds CD to apply condem on teleport is needed.
And i hoped for more, addos nerfed feels pointless and now Sadako cant apply global presure at all so F.
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It feels like she is going to be even more miserable to play against in SoloQ, and about as useless against a SWF. Meh.
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I think everyone overreact a bit. It seems to me that this is the case when it will be necessary to play for a month and make conclusions, because in general, I think these are good changes. Only things that requires changes imo:
- survivors need to go to the farther tv again
- better addon pass
- newspaper basekit
- undo watch nerf
Now at least I have a desire to play for her with the announced changes.
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Can’t wait to play her personally. I stopped playing her since they announced her rework because why bother practicing the old version of her.
The nerfs to her are not overshadowing the basekit buffs shes getting imo.
They have broken her dependency on certain add ons. They have also made condemn map wide, teleportation a more frequent process (massive buff here that was unexpected), addressed two exploits found in the PTB (slugging taped survivors and holding tapes). In a way encouraged her hit and run style like other stealth killers.
I am personally happier because of this. The condemn is not a guessing game anymore. Or require Gearhead or Discordance or Call of Brine.
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I'm very glad to see that they changed the cooldown on projection (though 10 seconds is still too much) and lowered the cooldowns for TVs (SUPER happy about these durations).
That being said, there's basically no reason to hook now and 2 stacks per hit is ridiculous. I'm just going to slug anyone who has a tape now. Would have much preferred that they listen to the feedback we gave on the PTB instead of incentivizing slugging even more when most of the feedback indicated that moving away from this sort of thing would have been well-received.
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Can I ask how in any way? They get the same stacks they did before if you had committed to the chase now they just get to instantly cleanse it somewhere else quicker than before
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When you hit someone carrying a tape the tape is destroyed
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Because you don't have to commit to the chase. If they're holding a tape for insurance, and they go pick up another tape that they hold for insurance... you can hit and run them for more Condemned gain and another tape destruction.
Tapes basically have to be used as soon as they're picked up, which means one of two things. Either they're doing it regularly to cleanse a small amount of Condemned, in which case that slowdown builds up, or they wait to do it until the last second, which means that interrupting and ambushing them is strong to the point of it being potentially deadly.
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okay but you still have to find them to actually get that hit off and if she doesn't find a specific survivor carrying a tape in 3 teleports then that survivor wins and thats still a payoff. The 'risk' is still EXTREMELY negligible either way and for most won't outweigh the benefits early game esp now that she'll be essentially playing without add ons every game since her add ons effects are...yeah
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That's where Sadako's main skill expression is, map awareness. You shouldn't have to be teleporting to find them, you should have at least some idea of where they are already.
That's not something that's only just true now, by the way, that's the biggest thing to learn for Sadako ever since she was introduced. She is a heavily map awareness dependant killer.
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Yep, sorry, you're right! Doesn't really change anything though because you'll still hit 7 stacks by the second down since they're not protected from projection-induced condemn after the first hit. It's functionally the same.
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Then whats the point in getting a tape in the first place or even using condemned...if they'll never be condemned or even have it as a risk then why pick up a tape lol
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You can just grab a tape and put in the tv thats 2 feet away from the one you grabbed it from and cleanse all your stacks instantly so
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I'm not sure I'm following, sorry. They will be Condemned, because they're picking up tapes. One stack for picking it up, and if they aren't depositing it straight away, another two stacks for being hit, and then they have to start over.
Or, they do deposit it straight away, which is slowdown for you because they're not doing generators for that time. It may not be all that much time per tape, but it adds up if they do it multiple times.
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I mean this is assuming that the Sadako isn't running Iri tape. This may be just me but that seems a bit unrealistic, she's not really playable without it in the rework. I'll at least never be running her without it.
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And also if they have no tape, teleporting will add stack them as well.
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Glad the cooldowns went down for powered tv and tvs turned off by survivors.
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They removed getting a stack of condemned when taking a tape in the PTB and have no intentions on bringing it back since they didn't mention they would add it back.
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I just won't play her period. Im sad I have to drop her as a main truly but I'm tired of BHVR dumbing killers down to just be mindless chasing
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Yeah? I must've forgotten about that.
That doesn't change the overall take, though. Either they get Condemned from teleportation, or they pick up tapes and you get either slowdown or the chance to apply Condemned + break the tape.
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Whats the slowdown from taking a tape early? Spawn next to a tv then take a tape, work on a gen while someone else gets chased and you're set.
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Well, what are they doing with that tape?
If they're just holding it, they're at risk of getting Condemned applied if Sadako interrupts them. That's where the killer's agency and skill expression comes in.
If they're transporting it to a TV, that is slowdown. It isn't much per tape, but it adds up, and it's passive.
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Yeah you're not seeing the problem.
Sadako has NO WAY of knowing who has a tape and who doesn't. The small risk of maybe getting 2 meager stacks of condemned is nothing compared to the huge reward that is knowing you cannot be condemned by any means until she finds you to which you can run and put it in the TV next to you(You'll have plenty of time if you hold W the second her lullaby appears on screen).
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No way other than basic map awareness and human eyeballs? You can see what TVs turn off, and knowing where survivors are in a general sense is one of the big skills you learn as a killer player, not to mention that if they're nearby you can see the tape in their hands.
There's also info perks, and I thiiiink she has addons for this? Don't quote me on that, I'd have to double check.
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No she has no actual way of knowing which survivors do and don't have tapes and AGAIN okay lets use your theory that she just has perfect knowledge of every single survivor whos holding a tape and their exact position.
What stops the survivor from running the second they see the heartbeat or lullaby and just putting the tape in the TV thus eliminating any and all threat the scary '2 stacks of condemned' may have? Mind you you as Sadako would have to hit them with a tape TWICE for them to need to put a tape in a tv. This does absolutely nothing to help her in the grand scheme of things yeah its ever so slightly more risky to keep a tape on your survivor but does that even matter when the benefit is you're completely safe from condemned?
She has no chase power especially now that they've nerfed her chase abilities to the ground. She can't get quick downs on injured targets she still has to sluggishly walk over there with a full terror radius so even doing hit and run is pointless on her considering how sluggish she will be post nerf as well.
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they're encouraging Sadako to hook which is not her design and they're also encouraging an m1 killer to tunnel off-hook. I am not entirely sure why Sadako needs a condemn meter to mori and then a hook counter to mori. it is two counters racing the same thing. survivor will still hold tapes because they're immune to condemn teleporting due to the crazy shield. nothing really changed from PTB. She's going to better vs lower MMR survivors and weaker vs efficient gen+chase players.
Post edited by Devil_hit11 on3 -
The comb add-on will be helpful for knowing when someone picks up a Tape. Unfortunately that makes it kinda a necessary add-on with these changes. So basically you are stuck running Iri Tape and Comb every game if you actually want to get value out of condemned (which is now her only viable power).
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If the Sadako player teleports just 3 times before finding you and hitting you, you are still better off than if you had not picked up a tape.
So no, not a detriment at all unless you're just really unlucky.
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All of them seem like really smart changes and overall looks like she'll be in a much better spot than how she initially was. Hooks are encouraged and hit and run can also be encouraged with the teleport and tape changes. Overall everything pushes Sadako to be more proactive on the map. Even if she's not strong it's still a better foundation than what she initially had but we'll see how it plays out in live.
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