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How you feel about Sadako changes?

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Comments

  • ReverseVelocity
    ReverseVelocity Member Posts: 4,606

    Good changes overall, I think. TVs not being turned off for an eternity when you project to them is amazing.

  • GentlemanFridge
    GentlemanFridge Member Posts: 5,775

    The TV cooldown being more than halved is humongous.

  • jasonq500
    jasonq500 Member Posts: 218

    Got my feedback on the feedback section on this,

    They're pretty decent overall, just wish they could've done more in her kit

  • jasonq500
    jasonq500 Member Posts: 218

    I left a comment right hear earlier and now its gone so I'm gonna write it again

    I have my feedback on the feedback section.

    They've done some pretty good changes overall, just wish they could've done more of her kit in my opinion

  • ReverseVelocity
    ReverseVelocity Member Posts: 4,606

    They changed Ring Drawing to not apply when healing a Survivor from the Dying state, which hampers that playstyle a lot.

  • Seraphor
    Seraphor Member Posts: 9,429
    edited July 2023

    Teleport cooldowns: good

    Condemned changes: seems like even more of a nerf, but with how frequently you can teleport... probably works out ok on balance.

    Condemnation should be more slowdown than actual risk of death (like Pigs RBTs) so the fact that you're unlikely to actually get to 7 stacks isn't technically a problem.

    However... is it so unlikely that it doesn't actually serve as slowdown? Is there really a downside to just always carrying a tape?

    If you're holding a tape you're protected, and if you get hooked you gain a maximum of 2 stacks. So you pick up another tape and if you get downed you gain a maximum of 2 stacks, 4 in total. If you just grab the first tape you see whenever you get the chance, you'll never need to deposit it. You'll never get more than 4 before you're dead anyway.

  • ARTRA
    ARTRA Member Posts: 938

    No CD in teleport BUT 10-15 seconds CD to apply condem on teleport is needed.

    And i hoped for more, addos nerfed feels pointless and now Sadako cant apply global presure at all so F.

  • Beatricks
    Beatricks Member Posts: 857

    It feels like she is going to be even more miserable to play against in SoloQ, and about as useless against a SWF. Meh.

  • fussy
    fussy Member Posts: 1,700

    I think everyone overreact a bit. It seems to me that this is the case when it will be necessary to play for a month and make conclusions, because in general, I think these are good changes. Only things that requires changes imo:

    • survivors need to go to the farther tv again
    • better addon pass
    • newspaper basekit
    • undo watch nerf

    Now at least I have a desire to play for her with the announced changes.

  • Steel_Eyed
    Steel_Eyed Member Posts: 4,033

    Can’t wait to play her personally. I stopped playing her since they announced her rework because why bother practicing the old version of her.

    The nerfs to her are not overshadowing the basekit buffs shes getting imo.

    They have broken her dependency on certain add ons. They have also made condemn map wide, teleportation a more frequent process (massive buff here that was unexpected), addressed two exploits found in the PTB (slugging taped survivors and holding tapes). In a way encouraged her hit and run style like other stealth killers.

    I am personally happier because of this. The condemn is not a guessing game anymore. Or require Gearhead or Discordance or Call of Brine.

  • Matukas
    Matukas Member Posts: 79

    I'm very glad to see that they changed the cooldown on projection (though 10 seconds is still too much) and lowered the cooldowns for TVs (SUPER happy about these durations).

    That being said, there's basically no reason to hook now and 2 stacks per hit is ridiculous. I'm just going to slug anyone who has a tape now. Would have much preferred that they listen to the feedback we gave on the PTB instead of incentivizing slugging even more when most of the feedback indicated that moving away from this sort of thing would have been well-received.

  • HamsterEnjoyer
    HamsterEnjoyer Member Posts: 758

    Can I ask how in any way? They get the same stacks they did before if you had committed to the chase now they just get to instantly cleanse it somewhere else quicker than before

  • HamsterEnjoyer
    HamsterEnjoyer Member Posts: 758

    When you hit someone carrying a tape the tape is destroyed

  • jesterkind
    jesterkind Member Posts: 7,919

    Because you don't have to commit to the chase. If they're holding a tape for insurance, and they go pick up another tape that they hold for insurance... you can hit and run them for more Condemned gain and another tape destruction.

    Tapes basically have to be used as soon as they're picked up, which means one of two things. Either they're doing it regularly to cleanse a small amount of Condemned, in which case that slowdown builds up, or they wait to do it until the last second, which means that interrupting and ambushing them is strong to the point of it being potentially deadly.

  • HamsterEnjoyer
    HamsterEnjoyer Member Posts: 758

    okay but you still have to find them to actually get that hit off and if she doesn't find a specific survivor carrying a tape in 3 teleports then that survivor wins and thats still a payoff. The 'risk' is still EXTREMELY negligible either way and for most won't outweigh the benefits early game esp now that she'll be essentially playing without add ons every game since her add ons effects are...yeah

  • jesterkind
    jesterkind Member Posts: 7,919

    That's where Sadako's main skill expression is, map awareness. You shouldn't have to be teleporting to find them, you should have at least some idea of where they are already.

    That's not something that's only just true now, by the way, that's the biggest thing to learn for Sadako ever since she was introduced. She is a heavily map awareness dependant killer.

  • Matukas
    Matukas Member Posts: 79

    Yep, sorry, you're right! Doesn't really change anything though because you'll still hit 7 stacks by the second down since they're not protected from projection-induced condemn after the first hit. It's functionally the same.

  • HamsterEnjoyer
    HamsterEnjoyer Member Posts: 758

    Then whats the point in getting a tape in the first place or even using condemned...if they'll never be condemned or even have it as a risk then why pick up a tape lol

  • HamsterEnjoyer
    HamsterEnjoyer Member Posts: 758

    You can just grab a tape and put in the tv thats 2 feet away from the one you grabbed it from and cleanse all your stacks instantly so

  • jesterkind
    jesterkind Member Posts: 7,919

    I'm not sure I'm following, sorry. They will be Condemned, because they're picking up tapes. One stack for picking it up, and if they aren't depositing it straight away, another two stacks for being hit, and then they have to start over.

    Or, they do deposit it straight away, which is slowdown for you because they're not doing generators for that time. It may not be all that much time per tape, but it adds up if they do it multiple times.

  • Matukas
    Matukas Member Posts: 79

    I mean this is assuming that the Sadako isn't running Iri tape. This may be just me but that seems a bit unrealistic, she's not really playable without it in the rework. I'll at least never be running her without it.

  • katoptris
    katoptris Member Posts: 3,201

    Glad the cooldowns went down for powered tv and tvs turned off by survivors.

  • HamsterEnjoyer
    HamsterEnjoyer Member Posts: 758

    They removed getting a stack of condemned when taking a tape in the PTB and have no intentions on bringing it back since they didn't mention they would add it back.

  • HamsterEnjoyer
    HamsterEnjoyer Member Posts: 758

    I just won't play her period. Im sad I have to drop her as a main truly but I'm tired of BHVR dumbing killers down to just be mindless chasing

  • jesterkind
    jesterkind Member Posts: 7,919

    Yeah? I must've forgotten about that.

    That doesn't change the overall take, though. Either they get Condemned from teleportation, or they pick up tapes and you get either slowdown or the chance to apply Condemned + break the tape.

  • jesterkind
    jesterkind Member Posts: 7,919

    Well, what are they doing with that tape?

    If they're just holding it, they're at risk of getting Condemned applied if Sadako interrupts them. That's where the killer's agency and skill expression comes in.

    If they're transporting it to a TV, that is slowdown. It isn't much per tape, but it adds up, and it's passive.

  • HamsterEnjoyer
    HamsterEnjoyer Member Posts: 758

    Yeah you're not seeing the problem.

    Sadako has NO WAY of knowing who has a tape and who doesn't. The small risk of maybe getting 2 meager stacks of condemned is nothing compared to the huge reward that is knowing you cannot be condemned by any means until she finds you to which you can run and put it in the TV next to you(You'll have plenty of time if you hold W the second her lullaby appears on screen).

  • jesterkind
    jesterkind Member Posts: 7,919

    No way other than basic map awareness and human eyeballs? You can see what TVs turn off, and knowing where survivors are in a general sense is one of the big skills you learn as a killer player, not to mention that if they're nearby you can see the tape in their hands.

    There's also info perks, and I thiiiink she has addons for this? Don't quote me on that, I'd have to double check.

  • HamsterEnjoyer
    HamsterEnjoyer Member Posts: 758

    No she has no actual way of knowing which survivors do and don't have tapes and AGAIN okay lets use your theory that she just has perfect knowledge of every single survivor whos holding a tape and their exact position.

    What stops the survivor from running the second they see the heartbeat or lullaby and just putting the tape in the TV thus eliminating any and all threat the scary '2 stacks of condemned' may have? Mind you you as Sadako would have to hit them with a tape TWICE for them to need to put a tape in a tv. This does absolutely nothing to help her in the grand scheme of things yeah its ever so slightly more risky to keep a tape on your survivor but does that even matter when the benefit is you're completely safe from condemned?

    She has no chase power especially now that they've nerfed her chase abilities to the ground. She can't get quick downs on injured targets she still has to sluggishly walk over there with a full terror radius so even doing hit and run is pointless on her considering how sluggish she will be post nerf as well.

  • Devil_hit11
    Devil_hit11 Member Posts: 9,020
    edited July 2023

    they're encouraging Sadako to hook which is not her design and they're also encouraging an m1 killer to tunnel off-hook. I am not entirely sure why Sadako needs a condemn meter to mori and then a hook counter to mori. it is two counters racing the same thing. survivor will still hold tapes because they're immune to condemn teleporting due to the crazy shield. nothing really changed from PTB. She's going to better vs lower MMR survivors and weaker vs efficient gen+chase players.

    Post edited by Devil_hit11 on
  • Digfish
    Digfish Member Posts: 140

    The comb add-on will be helpful for knowing when someone picks up a Tape. Unfortunately that makes it kinda a necessary add-on with these changes. So basically you are stuck running Iri Tape and Comb every game if you actually want to get value out of condemned (which is now her only viable power).

  • Viskod
    Viskod Member Posts: 854

    If the Sadako player teleports just 3 times before finding you and hitting you, you are still better off than if you had not picked up a tape.

    So no, not a detriment at all unless you're just really unlucky.

  • Dustin
    Dustin Member Posts: 2,315
    edited July 2023

    All of them seem like really smart changes and overall looks like she'll be in a much better spot than how she initially was. Hooks are encouraged and hit and run can also be encouraged with the teleport and tape changes. Overall everything pushes Sadako to be more proactive on the map. Even if she's not strong it's still a better foundation than what she initially had but we'll see how it plays out in live.