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We need to talk about Skull Merchant
Comments
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I think removing lock on makes her drones extremely unthreatening and powerless tbh. Her being an M1 with no chase power just information isn't good enough on its own which is where the problem is. See, this wouldn't even affect me so much had it not been for them gutting Onryo and Hag my other killer mains. Beyond those 3 I have mediocre fun with the rest of the killer roster, I'm much more into the 'set up and plan ahead' style of gameplay rather than "Find survivor and chase rinse and repeat." and beyond SM and Hag we have like no killers that are actual area control killers or killers who reward huge pre planning (Trapper but hes less area control and theres not much micro managing beyond trap count and where they are + him being clunky).
The problem is BHVR won't care about SM player feedback they just wanna appeal the masses so I'm sure they'll just make her drones like attack people or something and call it day because thats the only kind of killer people want in this game unfortunately. Any killer whos slightly broken the mold of 'run around this one object, drop pallet and do it again' is regarded as unfun and needs a rework they even did it to freddy lol I have 0 hope they'll keep her as an area denial/control killer like I adore her being
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Because there is plenty of ways to play her in her current kit. She can be chase orientated, stealth orientated, gen defense orientated, anti heal orientated, and more that Ik I've played with but am forgetting. Her rework I'm sorry but we already know what it'll be if they don't just nerf her to hell and call it a day.
They'll remove ALL other playstyles except chase and she'll just be another generic chase killer like freddy when he got his rework. I have always enjoyed killers who have a lot of micro management and even more so killers that do area denial. Atm we have Hag and Trapper for area denial, they've gutted Hag in any rank that's not low since survivors just know to wipe traps away now. And Trapper is so clunky and slow on everything he does you don't feel much enjoyment + his games tend to all play the exact same way of 'go find trap place at pallet/window, repeat'
My other favorite killer to play Onryo, is being gutted tomorrow in favor of the same thing, simplifying her basekit by removing ALL other playstyles in favor for chasing as an M1 killer (Even going as far as to remove her add ons which allow her to mindgame during chase and pull actually skillfull plays). When BHVR says rework they mean simplfy their kit which means make everything very straight forward. SM was a killer who hit the golden trifecta for me in design, power, and effectiveness. I never played her as a 3 gen as my 2 main builds were anti-pallets and anti-heal, both which I'm sure will be completely unviable and non existent post nerf/rework as evident by EVERY other rework they've done.
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"I can use different perks but play mostly the same" isn't "different ways to play". Wraith has different builds, Nurse has different builds, Onryo has different builds, even Trapper has different builds.
The only effective way to play SM is defense, whether gens or totems, or both, with occasional straying away to get a hit or eat a resource.
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Crazy how people who don't play her will sit up here and tell me how she can and can't be played lol.
There's far more than just perks including her add ons which enable or allow some of these playstyles to work in anyway. Just because the most effective way of playing her is gen defense doesn't mean thats all she can do and the only effective way of playing her is gen defense when she has plenty of add ons which enable a variety of other playstyles that other killers cant utilize but she can.
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I've played her plenty. I'm not the kind to take other people's opinions as facts. I never played her during the PTB, I played her on release. I wasn't part of the ones set up for the Predator hidemind disappointment. I judged her on her own merit. Her chase addons are worthless; she has a worse anti-loop than almost any killer in the game, even with her best chase addons. Beyond that, her best addons are either the gen defense ones, or the ones to create confusion amongst survivors so you get easier hits off gens. Her best playstyle is, by far, defense; more specifically gen defense. Playing her in any other way is playing an M1 killer with a half-power.
I too can slap Vigo's Journal on Blight and call it a stealth build, but that's not really doing anyone any favors.
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Again, you clearly don't play her at all and thats fine but dont tell me, someone who actually does play her, how she can and can't be played because I actually do play her and have spent the time learning her and all her kit has to offer something you haven't done.
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There really isn't much to say. Everyone with a tiny bit of understanding knows she is similar to "o.g. hostage Doctor".
That's a design flaw. Simple as that.
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Calling for her to be killswitched till she gets reworked may make sense from a balance perspective but not from a business perspective. BHVR would either have to compensate players who spent money on her or put her remake as a priority. Given how their schedule is, prioritizing her remake would push other profitable projects down the line like cosmetics or new chapters which once again makes no sense from a business perspective.
This reminds me of the argument people had when Decisive Strike got reworked and people were demanding refunds because the perk got changed. Same thing happened with Freddy's complete rework. I'm pretty sure there was a statement about it that refunds wouldn't be granted. Granted I get it if the killer is killswitched for months but to be honest there's been plenty of stuff killswitched for a long duration of time. The only thing that was disabled for a lengthy period to my knowledge was Jonathan Byers from Stranger Things and that was before killswitch - can't recall if people got compensated somehow but I thought they did.
To be quite honest - I actually agree with people suggesting the killer needs to be killswitched. Genuinely one of the worst designed things I've ever seen added to this game and I've played since 2016. I'm still thinking of hatch standoffs, pallet and window vacuums and really poorly designed perks when I compare SM to old DBD. I also don't believe people are overreacting. Skull Merchant is the only killer I've consistently seen people either DC or walk up to the killer and point to a hook so they can go next. The majority of people who value their time would rather suicide on hook against SM.
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The killswitch isn't for disabling things that some people don't like.
It's for turning off things that are not working as intended in a way that negatively impacts the game.
Skull Merchant is working as intended. Not to mention most things that do get killswitch are fixed a week or two later, compared to waiting up to a year for Skull Merchant to receive significant changes.
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So it took the best team in the world to finally beat this killer using that build and strategy. All other teams good or very good failed and yet your mediocre team would win? How can you even think that? We have all won against the random 3 gen Skullies and it means nothing. I love to see your mediocre group take on that player and build.
If you are mediocre at chess could you still beat the best defensive chessplayer in the world? I mean you only have to break his defense early right?
"Survivor teams need to break each 3 gen early before it becomes a thing"
It already is a thing when killers puts three drones at the very start of the game. Survivors spawn in at the other side of the map they have no time to even touch one of these three gens before it's a thing.
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"b-b-but you haven't played her"
"Actually I did"
"b-b-but you haven't played her"
Arguing with SM mains be like
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They did the same to Legion for a long time even after they removed the ability to moonwalk down someone with deep wounds, fixed the issues with stacking Filthy and Nasty blade, turbo nerfed and then reworked Frank's Mixtape and Stab Wound Study.
People DC'd on the Twins a ton as well, there was literally the multiple years of hostage Doc and the Forever Freddy days of his original power which caused a ton of DCs. It seems we've been playing this game the same length of time so you would have had to have seen this or at least been aware of this.
The response to Skull Merchant is extremely skewed because the level of baseline hate for her is so much higher than any other killer. Hate she doesn't really deserve considering where it usually stems from has nothing to do with what she's capable of in game and everything to do with people getting hyped up on leaks for Predator or generally being super snobbish about what does and doesn't belong in horror. So a ridiculous level of hatred paired with a generally very weak power that has one grossly over performant strat at the expense of truly being good at anything else means players are going to respond negatively in a seemingly outsized manner.
Most of the folks on this forum that call for her to be killswitched or deleted are also the same ones who were cranking out threads talking about how Skull Merchant doesn't even belong in DBD to begin with.
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The other thing is I've had games against other killers that have gone for half hour and my own experience I have yet to have a single game end due to server timeout.
A lot of people are certainly focusing on a single aspect she can do and acting like it's so prevalent and a major issue when it probably accounts for a very small % of games played. If nearly every game against Skull Merchant was hitting server timeout, the devs would most certainly have put out a hotfix to nerf her.
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Critiquing people for being biased against her (with an assumption you made up) while being biased towards her is very funny.
She received a lot of hate because shockingly enough subjectivity =/= mean there can't be a general consensus. Her lore is awful, her looks are janky, and her gameplay is two-dimensional and stale. If you like her that's your right, but I would advise against talking about her like she's some misunderstood diamond in the rough when her flaws from top to bottom are very apparent.
By you own admission she excels at literally one thing and is mediocre at everything else, the thing she excels at is already a dumb gameplay loop nobody likes and something already highlighted with the release of the Knight who also received the same backlash. The only reason the Knight isn't talked about as much is because he's much worse at the strategy and relied on perks to be effective.
Saying her hate is undeserved is extremely delusional, you can like the character all you want, but lets not pretend this is some unicorn land where majority of SM players aren't employing a painful 3-gen strategy, its what the killer is known for and there's more than enough evidence to suggest that the vast majority of her matches fall into this situation.
I personally don't think she will or should be killswitched but I do think a rework is warranted and pretending that the majority of players are dumb bandwagoners who can't think for themselves just because she's talked about a lot makes no sense. There's a very good and justified reason for the infamy. Even excluding the Team Eternal game which is just the cherry on top.
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I am aware of it (Legion / Twins) - Just the backlash was harder with Decisive Strike when people were more entitled and not used to things actually being changed. With Freddy it was the first time a power had been completely reworked. So those were the only notable mentions to be honest. Could argue about every buggy and poorly thought out release but it would be a longer list and again by the time Legion / Twins became a thing and had their time in the spotlight everyone was more understanding of how changes would happen from that point on.
The hate is absolutely warranted - Killer is only good at prolonging games and is boring to play against. She ruins the fun for people whether people want to pretend they like her or the idea of her. Who cares about her visuals or what she could have been. The issue is what she is now.
If you're defending her because you like the power I respect that. But who cares about whether we think her visuals are good or she wasn't a license. Seems like wasted energy defending SM's power just because someone else thinks that. I dislike her because she ruins my freetime because almost every game she either stalls the game to at least 30 minutes and we eventually escape in the most boring drawn out game ever or people just instant DC / Suicide on hook and then I get to go back to lobby like everyone else. I value my time so I absolutely am for a rework of her power or her just getting killswitched but no one here actually believes that will happen.
For the record - I don't care about SM's appearance. Her lore is kind of mid though.
Also - The threads you're referring to on her not belonging in DBD are usually just fresh accounts. Most of the people who are consistent on the forums tend to have pretty sound logic for why they dislike the killer. I could name 5 people right off that very commonly make threads about SM and all of them are just tired of 3 gen strats.
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They disabled Nurse for quite some time.
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Well, we've got to wait and see, I agree.
Even if the Devs figure something out regarding 3-gens, that leaves her in a very VERY bad spot and that wouldn't be fixing the issue with the Killer.
Either way, she needs a rework that doesn't involve 3-genning.
Also, sorry I didn't respond earlier. I was working on a car I bought and it def slipped off of the jack and I was under it. Cut me up pretty good, but I'm okay since I'm so skinny lol. I'm usually pretty prompt at replying, so just didn't want you to think I was ignoring you.
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The thing is we not talking about months for a rework. This dev team take much much longer to rework killers. You looking at disabling a killer for at least a year or more. The reason I said this is because of the promise Twins rework that was teased over a year ago. Even sadoko rework we getting most likely took them a long time to do and we just didn't know they was doing it. If was just few months then I agree they need to Killswitch her but I doubt it would take few months to rework her. Not with this dev team and the amount of time and resources they have. Most of their dev time is tired up in making new killers so they can keep up with their 3 month schedule. I don't know a single game that has removed a character for that long.
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I am very aware which is why I said (Right above) we all know SM won't get kill switched even if some of us (Me included) openly want it. I accept it won't happen and just want to see a rework but at this point BHVR knows people hate SM so I imagine it's on the board of discussion somewhere.
The silver lining here is I rarely see her nowadays but she's such a buzzkill that the one time I get her every few days just ruins my entire game session at best by souring the mood or at worst most of my free time to play this game is eaten up by a 3 gen SM.
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I could name 5 people who a consistent long term posters who have literally been complaining about Skull Merchant's existence since before she was fully released when she comes up. It's not just fresh unconfirmed accounts doing it and it certainly doesn't explain why the Tools of Torment chapter has been sitting a mostly negative on Steam since day one with a lot of the reviews being not about her gameplay, but her aesthetics, lore, and lack of being either some emotionless cyborg or the Predator.
I truly like Skull Merchant and I know others who also like Skull Merchant as well. Folks are calling me delusional, but the most delusional stance that exists around her is people saying "No one really likes Skull Merchant", "Skull Merchant players just want to timeout games and have no skill", "Skull Merchant players deserve to only play with bots". Anyone who isn't towing those delusional grand generalizations get dogpiled out of discussions by people who don't play the killer, like anything about the killer, and don't want the killer to be made better and healthier for the game. They simply want them gone and Fredboi'd or just gone.
There are problems that need to be addressed, but the level of hate she as a character and level of disregard towards those of us who actually play her get is very much unwarranted. Very few people remotely even try to contribute constructive thoughts about how to actually make her an interesting and engaging killer to play with and against. 99% of the commentary on Skull Merchant is just people harping on the 3 gen issue like people don't know there is a problem. When you delve into those threads very little of it is addressing 3 gens as a separate issue unto itself even though people have literally been finding ways to do this with other killers for years. It's somehow purely boiled down to a singular issue with Skull Merchant players as the ultimate villains rather than maybe being critical of the systemic problems this game has had for going on 8 years while also being critical of issues that keep plaguing modern killer power design.
Being constructively critical is one thing, but a lot of this has only ever been just a echochamber for people who don't even want to acknowledge there are a lot of us playing this killer, not 3 genning and ruining games, and that the killer has some redeeming qualities that aren't going to be apparent to most people since she already isn't being played that much compared to any other killer. Even content creators seem to be more interested in driving negative sentiment towards Skull Merchant players rather than trying to use their reach to maybe be more constructive in their criticisms rather than harping on the 3 gen thing like it is an issue unique to her and not a systemic problem.
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Don't know why this is still being dragged out, we all know and can agree after that 50 minute scrim, her playstyle is busted.
Yes, depending on the situation, it can be the survivors fault for not breaking a 3 gen and working together, however;
Her power offers nothing but an unhealthy playstyle that's not fun for either side. It's not always the survivors fault for getting 3 genned. If an SM is going to 3 gen, they are going to 3 gen, and they probably are not going to leave that 3 gen leaving it to be a boring match and battle of attrition.
The hate towards the killer is deserved, primarily because of design flaw that allows her power to be abused and drag games out. The killers design really offers nothing but a boring playstyle. Don't get why we're trying to defend the killer and point blame to the survivors.
I feel that SM main that went against Eternal knew they were going to lose so they chose to make Eternal's time a living hell, and it was not Eternal's fault for the match lasting that long.
If SM could be a chase killer with fair passive slow down, I don't think she'd be that big of a problem, but when the killer's only strength is babysitting her 3 gens for an hour, there's no reason to defend it. No skill ceiling whatsoever. Instead of arguing and blaming survivors for it being their fault for getting 3 genned, you could also acknowledge Skull Merchant's problem and agree.
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Yeah SM was the most hated killer before anyone even got to play her. I remember all the posts calling for the devs to delete her just based on her design and looks. They called her a fortnight character and sex bait. Meanwhile these same people would drool over any shirtless cosmetic for a male survivor. These ppl are extremely bias towards SM. I know I went up against few SMs when I played survivor and none of those matches lasted super long. Most of them was around the 20min mark in length. Meanwhile the longest match I had was a plague match(around 30 mins) when we 3 gen ourselves against her.
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I actually like SM's mechanics regarding interacting with the actual drone - That is unique and cool. It's just everything else attached to her power is a drag. As I said I respect if you like the power but it really felt like you were lumping me in with the people who just don't like SM because of her appearance / lore. Don't get me wrong - I'm not a fan of her looks but I see her just as welcome here as any other killer. My only issue with her is the power is not fun when engaging with her as her power encourages and rewards hard camping an area or 3 genning. Usually - I don't take issue with that as my favorite killer is Trapper. SM gets free pressure by afk'ing in an area though and it's boring. I honestly feel she would be better off if she wasn't designed with Exposed in mind.
Here's one thing I need to emphasize - It sucks people are calling you names but don't lump me in with those people. I respect that you like the killer and it's cool that we don't agree but I'm not doing any of that.
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The hate for her is 100% justified, and we're way past the days where people hated on her for overhyping a potential Predator chapter. People hate her now because games against her are excessively dull.
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People are really defensive at the concept of someone whom isn't a highly competitive team winning a 3 gen game against SM.
I realize it doesn't feed into the she is broken and OP sky is falling narrative that people want to push it also doesn't mean she's fine as is. Both those things can be true at once.
I wouldn't call her OP but what it takes to break her 3 gen is a lil much and needs to change.
Yes as I said an entire game against SM using 3gen tactic will be breaking each 3 gen by 3 gen till you get a gen layout that isn't advantageous to just camp.
If she's set up with only those most optimum gens left on the map get ready to hunker down for long game around just those 3 gens.
99 the far away gens then start the 3 gen breaking, once its broken pop the rest in rapid succession... this is the best thing that my mediocre collection of friends has found and we've had some success. Survivors never 99 gens anymore.
Until the changes happen this is what's worked for us and if the "best team in the world" had tried it maybe they wouldn't have been there for 50 mins. We'll never know, but if my sad collective can do it I'm sure others can too.
People keep comparing it to chess and as a mediocre DBD player but a capable chess player, I can say its nothing of the sort and unconventional chess games are won by thinking through problems not by pissing and moaning about them.
Purely defensive chess leads to stalemates. Someone has to eventually attack and in this role that's the survivors, so set your defense 99 a collection of spread gens and then attack the 3 gen, you'll lose some pieces but if you break the 3 gen you'll snowball your way out the gate with the right set up. Is that enough of a chess simile can we stop now?
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People take it too personally when others don't like what they like and vice versa which is muddying up the discussion because of clarifying and re-clarifying that SM players aren't bad people just that the killer sucks. Its redundant.
This thread too, has also become redundant, but that being said this is probably the healthiest form of protest that we have as players.
Nobody is harassing the devs and this keeps the convo going which pressure on the devs to fix an issue with the game in a timely manner, something I find to be good in the long-term as long as it doesn't become uncivil.
I say that people continue to make topics about the problem until it gets acknowledged (again) and/or solved. Using your voice is very powerful.
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clarifying and re-clarifying that SM players aren't bad people just that the killer sucks
And yet, every time I play as Skull Merchant I get abuse in end game chat. Every time. It doesn't matter that I play SM as a Stealth Killer and my games are over in 10-15 minutes, the hive mind has decided that SM players are evil and the Killer should be deleted..
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There also nothing skillful or interactive when survivors keep pre leaving generators early. That should be nerfed too. Both sides of the game should be encouraged to interact with their opponent(s).
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Yes, because this team has the highest skill expression of any survivor team in the entire game, and could run circles around basically any killer. Assuming the SM player was on literally any other killer in the game, the game would have been over in minutes, with an easy 4-out. The only reason the game lasted so long, and he was able to have a chance, is specifically because he was playing SM and was utilizing this strategy. This isn't some experienced player giving a much more experienced team a hard time, this is an ATROCIOUS player (seriously, his gameplay is filled to the brim with mistakes, and he could have easily won that game at many points if he wasn't so bad) who managed to force the best team in the world to try multiple strategies to defeat him simply walking around in a triangle refreshing his power and kicking gens. There is no world where this isn't a problem. This is the equivalent of a team of 15 year old amateur soccer players going up against Real Madrid and almost winning the game at multiple points by using some equipment that Madrid doesn't have access to.
Also, he didn't win the game, he got 4-outed and got 4 hooks (4 hooks too many if you ask me, he would have gotten 0-hooked on any other killer).
Granted, in theory, she is not OP. It's when you combine her with the fact that her drones are multi-floor, that almost every map has a very easily defensible 3-gen, along with how her kit operates, that makes her OP. The proof is in the pudding; the best team in the world could have ran laps around this killer but got pulled into a 50 minute game where they could have lost at many points because he happened to be playing this one killer.
What's the point of 99ing the gens if she never leaves her 3-gen? You realize you're just giving her another chance, assuming you are somehow able to break her 3-gen. Say she gets cocky at one point and strays away from her 3-gen to hear one of your 99 gens being worked on, and she kicks it, and no one realizes because everyone is busy trying to break the 3-gen, then she realizes she's about to lose the 3-gen and goes for a kill on someone who's death hook, and you start popping your 99 gens, you've just given her another 3-gen that's less defensible that she only has to worry about 3 people on. If a killer wants to play a 3-gen, they will play that 3-gen. It doesn't matter if you're at 5 gens left or only 1.
Again, I've already said this but I'll say it again, get your SWF together and play me on SM. You pick the map, and you can bring any items or perks. Only restriction is no toolboxes and no BNP.
The chess thing is just making fun of the streamer who played against Eternal. He kept making chess metaphors even though they made absolutely no sense.
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I've gotten told to off myself while farming as Demogorgon, its not really relevant, as dumb and unwarranted as it is.
Playing a highly-disliked killer will lead to more cases of chat abuse, this is known, either go anon and hide the chat or continue to get free reports on the jerks being mean to you.
It doesn't mean that every time Skull Merchant and her issues are brought up that we have to once again discuss the "what about the SM players" topic for several pages. At least not in my opinion, since not even the more adamant posters I've seen here have disrespected the players at large.
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But what would it prove, that its really hard and takes to long?... we already know that.
I reckon with enough games we could pull it off though, law of infinite probability and all.
You want me to get my collective of pals together to appease the opinion of one bristly online stranger. Your opinion of what I've said isn't that important to me and likely completely unimportant to them also, I'd be embarrassed to ask them because its so silly.
Maybe if we were in an 80's movie and playing to save the children's youth center from destruction by the snooty rich businessman and his crony's. I love a good training montage.
Try it yourself against a SM and see how you do, you never know you may even enjoy yourself trying.
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Like I said in another reply, having constructive criticism about the problems modern killer power design is one thing. The amount of hate sent towards Skull Merchant is another as it isn't even constructive criticism so much as folks talking license to dump on the people who are playing the killer and refusing to even acknowledge the redeeming aspects of the killer as well as the fact that not every Skull Merchant player is going around trying to time out games.
That sort of thing is hard to do though when the most active and loudest voices aren't Skull Merchant players, but people who don't like and don't play Skull Merchant. Thus while they can clearly see the problematic issue which no one who is being reasonable is saying shouldn't be addressed, but they don't have the investment and knowledge base to be constructive.
To say we're way past the days where people hated her for not being Predator simply isn't true. People are focusing their fire on the 3 gen issue because that is more actionable, but it ain't like the people who hated her aesthetically are different from the people who hate her functionally. If that hate were actually constrained to the character rather than often being a springboard combined with the 3 gen issue to paint those of us who play her in a bad light it would easier to believe that this was justified.
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You don't know what the game outcome would have been using different tactics anymore than I do, you just assume because it plays into the point you want to make. Every point you've made here is based on that assumption.
I don't think the team played that well that game, they missed a lot of skill checks.
People are using this one event as some kind of benchmark that SM is OP, that's the only thing I took issue with because frankly its silly to hold this team up on a pedestal when I don't think that game went that well.
Its ok for even the "best team" to not have a good game, we have an example provided in this very thread.
As for skull merchant I've provided my suggestion for how to break her and escape... I'll say again give it a try.
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Not completing every other gen but those three till last probably would have helped.
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It doesn't matter what redeeming aspects she has (if any) because her negatives far, far outweighs the positives. There is nothing significant to be gleaned from saying "yeah but some people play her a stealthy chase killer."
Again, bringing up certain irrational people who dump on the people who play the killer doesn't take away from the fact that the hatred of her is still justified. Those people would do the same thing to anyone playing any killer, and there already plenty of tools to deal with toxic individuals.
Respectfully, SM doesn't even come close to the top 15 killers with the most depth, and you definitely do not have to play her in any capacity to understand how she works. Her design is that egregious to where saying "SM bad" is valid criticism and I don't agree with how you or others are trying to make it seem like only people who play her have an educated opinion on her.
Its no different than saying Bubba has other playstyles besides basement camping, its clear that facecamping is his most popular playstyle and it was problematic enough to where they are adding in an anti-facecamp feature to attempt alleviate it somewhat.
You could argue that SM should be treated the same, but her gameplay is bad enough to where she will always force a 3-gen unless all the gens are spread out in a max distance circle which isn't feasible.
Hating her lore/looks is still just as justified as hating her gameplay because it can be equally as low quality. And in my opinion, a bland character with bland lore and forced sex appeal is just not something I want to see again. Trickster was done far better than her as a normal-looking person with a monstrous underside.
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Yeah, ppl in this community sucks sometimes. I get hate for playing her and Legion all the time. Honestly, I think dbd is on of the most toxic games other than LoL. A lot of ppl in this community act so entitled and be little ppl when they don't get their away or if you play something they don't like or find unfun.
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I'm not saying Skull Merchant has a ton a depth, but repeating and restating an obvious problem that everyone knows and understands is equally pointless. Thinking of ways actual decent solutions to the problem while can potentially be done without having ever played the character is possible, it is rare unless you've got a high level of general game knowledge. Most players don't have that level of general game knowledge and would be able to make better criticisms if they actually spent time playing the killer. The experience you get from only sometimes playing against them is different than the experience you get from playing them. Both experiences are useful to constructive critique, but to make the best arguments you really want to have the play experience of using the killer.
Just saying "Skull Merchant bad" isn't valid criticism, that's a reductive value judgment being used to cut short any real substantive conversation of how to solve the issue. Stating she's bad doesn't progress anything and adds no valuable context, we know she's bad! The point shouldn't be that she's bad, but how to make her better which is infinitely more constructive and helpful. That's why nothing about the Eternal game matters because the conversation coming from that isn't anything more than restating what everyone already knew. Hard 3 gen is difficult to deal with if you don't approach it the right way early on and even more difficult if you sit there and ties your hands with dumb comp play rules.
Also, stop trying to undercut my statements about people's response towards players as only being from "certain irrational people". It's not just the stray handfuls of truly irrational folks with no reach who speak negatively of Skull Merchant players, it is also content creators endorsed by the very developers of this game and considered highly respected in the wider community. That stuff does active harm because when you disregard and paint people in a negative light while having that level reach others follow their lead. That's not cool and doesn't remotely solve the problems at hand it just makes people think it is okay to be trashy towards someone for playing a killer they like.
I don't like playing against Hag and never have, but I wouldn't talk smack about Hag players because my problem isn't with Hag players it is just with Hag. I wouldn't say Hag players deserve to play against bots or every Hag player is trash because that's a pretty messed up generalization to make. I'm a nobody and have enough sense to understand how bad that could to push that line of thinking out into the world. Now, imagine if I were a fog whisperer who said something like or just a DBD content creator with reach saying stuff like that? There is going to be a non-zero number of people who hear those statements and then use them to mentally justify their bad behavior towards Hag players and if enough people are already in the mood to write off Hag and Hag players they are going to feel comfortable making things miserable for Hag players no matter what they play like.
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To be fair, to be able to play skull merchant and hold a 3 gen for a very long time by kicking them over and over with overcharge/opression you need to be an incredibly skilled killer player with an extremely high IQ (atleast 150+ IQ)
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I love playing Skull Merchant, but it's very boring to play her in 3 gen style, so I play her in a chase style and I really like it. With certain perks and add-ons, it's not only fun, but extremely effective, and to be honest, I don't understand people who play her defensively.
There are a bunch of videos on YouTube with various chase builds, but for some reason people still perceive her only as 3 gen killer and it's sad.
I really hope that when she is will be reworked, the developers will not weaken her chase potential and the rest is not important to me.
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I don't know what I expected when I opened this discussion, but this was not it...
Also, anyone else here think Eternal would've won in under 10min if they rematched?
Was pretty obvious to me that the majority of their issue was inexperience against Skull Merchant. They made some pretty strange blunders early game which made their late game unnecessarily difficult. I'd imagine they'd have learned from their mistakes in game one, and made game two look like a cake walk.
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I don't think they could lower her chase potential, so that's something for you at least.
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I mean they could take away her haste effect from tracking or base kit old ultrasonic trap speaker, I mean I don't know why on earth they would considering that's the direction she needs to go in but technically speaking they could.
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It would prove your point, that the 3-gen is very easy to dismantle. You'll go into the game knowing exactly which killer I'm playing, on exactly which map, and which strategy I'll be using. And you'll be on voice comms with your teammates. All the chips in your favor to win this, I want you to prove to me that breaking a SM 3-gen is as easy as you make it sound.
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You keep saying this, but you also realize the SM had Oppression? I think this is flying over your head a little bit. After 50 minutes of trying to break the 3-gen, the entire map would have regressed to 0%, and when they do finally break the 3-gen, the killer just picks a different one to go to. You're somehow deluding yourself into thinking that, because a killer is playing a 3-gen and 5 gens are remaining, that they have any intention of leaving that 3-gen somehow to pressure the other 4 gens, that they know full well are at 99.
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To be fair, you have to have a very high IQ to play Skull Merchant. The gameplay is extremely subtle, and without a solid grasp of the concept of a 3-gen, most of the nuances will go over a typical player's head.
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Maybe 20-30 minutes. They spent about 30 minutes experimenting different strategies to figure out which would work best, and they finally decided on the 2-1-1 split across the gens based on which one was safest and which one was not. But also, the killer could have won that game at multiple points and made the worst decision they could have.
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By killswitching her especially when SM is not bugged, the devs are acknowledging that they created a defective product and pushed it to live. It’s not a good look for the company especially to their stakeholders.
While I have thought that BHVR’s PR is sketchy at times, they’re being smart this time in not killswitching her. Killswitches are supposed to be reserved for bugs. Killswitching her because enough people complained and a custom match happened will set a precedent that people can get other things that they don’t like killswitched if they complain enough in the future on the forums.
I have said it a few times already but people are blowing things out of proportion. From an outsider point of view, people are asking for a company’s product to be recalled indefinitely until it is fixed not because it is faulty or dangerous, but because people don’t like it and some people who were very experienced with the company’s products tested it and their “feedback” was publicized to others.
Ngl people are just letting the fact that it was team Eternal mess with their perception of the issue. How much people still play SM regularly? How many SM matches were stalled out like what happened in the custom match? Are the numbers justifiable to do a knee jerk response via killswitching instead of just adding her rework to the list of things to be done? The devs probably already know the answers and are acting based on them.
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I think the better question is what percentage of SM matches last over, say, 20 minutes.
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None. Everyone D/Cs before the 2 minute mark 🤣
Aside, idk why I thought you were a UK gamer. Did not expect to see you at this hour.
Also, I’m totally not just commenting to bump this thread because I like to see the pot stirred.
”Hi Ho, Skull Merch Must Go! Hi Ho…”
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BHVR's servers seem to think I'm apart of Europe, on occasion, but alas, I am not.
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