What do you think the 3 gen solution is going to be?
Bhvr said it wants to make sure 3 gen is getting nerfed and i assume the change is going to be a mechanic and not a killer/perk change.
With that what do you think the change will be?
If i had to guess, i would bet on:
- better map gen spawns
- a bloodlust like mechanic for survivors, basically after like 90s or 120s of no gens being done survivors would get a gen repair speed.
I am not saying this would be a good change, but what my guess.
Comments
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I'd like a secondary objective as a basekit feature:
Black Glyphs
After 360 seconds of no generator being repaired and no hooks or sacrifices being made (so neither side is progressing the objective) a Black Glyph will spawn somewhere on the map, and more Black Glyphs will continue to spawn every 15 seconds until a generator has been repaired. A maximum of five Black Glyphs can be present at any time.
Interacting with a Black Glyph will give you a stack of 'Entity's Favour'. When interacting with a generator while under the effect of Entity's Favour, you will remove 5 charges from the maximum charges required to repair that generator.
Essentially, after 5 minutes of no gens being repaired, survivors start to gain access to mini BNPs.
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It'll probably be a gen repair speed boost if the match goes on for too long.
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I'm curious as well, especially since, if I remember well, they'd said that the purpose was not to nerf accidental 3gens that were the doing of the survivors being careless, but specifically nerfing killers choosing 3 gens from the start and staying on them.
Gen spawns could be looked at, some killer powers could be looked at (Trapper Hag & DM come to mind), a new mechanic could be introduced or aura reading, like maybe if the killer hovers in the same area for too long, the gens of that area are highlighted to survivors to make them aware of the 3gen that's being kept, and maybe a gen speed boost on those gens. Basically some sort of Deja Vu-esque mechanic.
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They're introducing a mechanic that detects for killer proximity to a hooked survivor, and they're introducing a mechanic that reduces the maximum number of charges required to finish a repair.
I bet they could combine those two to make something that works to combat 3 gens - if a killer has spent more than [x] number of seconds near a generator without a survivor nearby / out of chase, the number of charges needed to finish the generator slowly starts decreasing.
They would need to tweak the numbers so killers don't get punished for checking gens that have nobody on them, or kicking gens that someone pre-left, but introducing a variation on that new set of mechanics might be the way to go
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It's going to be hard to pull off something balanced for both sides. They could start with something like: after X amount of time without putting a survivor into the dying state with 1 gen remaining, survivors start gaining stacks of Emboldened every X seconds. For every stack of Emboldened, generator speed is increased by X%.
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This sounds like another bailout for survivors playing poorly. Why should they get a bonus for putting themselves in a hard to win situation and why should a killer be punished for capitalizing on their mistake?
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3 genning isnt an issue, SM is an issue.
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they'll just likely put hatch after 20 or 30 minutes.
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If your going an extended amount of time without getting a down... You're not capitalizing on anything. Putting in a mechanic that JUST acts to avoid a 30 minute game of keep away while at the same time doesn't affect normal gameplay at all sounds like a win in my book.
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Well they just nerfed Prove Thyself which was basically a fine perk that worked best in those near-end 3 gen situations. So idk…
They could…
Make maps a bit bigger and work on gen placement…. Change the way regression works from gen kicking…. Introduce new perks that focus on gen repair in precarious situations….
I don’t like the idea of getting any kind of bonus for gens not being done/worked on in x amount of time. A lot of players already don’t do anything. I don’t want to incentivize people to just hide until they get a bonus or something.
Honestly I think certain perks could use some light buffs that could help without tipping the balance…
Spine Chill’s speed bonus could be applied when in the TR instead of just line of sight
Visionary could provide a small speed bonus during the cooldown period.
Corrective Action could provide a 1% bonus speed per token.
Technician could NOT add an additional regression penalty.
Scavenger could remove the speed penalty upon recharging the toolbox and instead use that time period as the “recharge period” rather than making the toolbox available to use again right away.
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If old hatch were to spawn after 30 minutes that would be a good reason to justify the existence of keys.
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The last one you meant Scavenger, and yes, i dont know why they felt the need to put an additional 30sec of 50% penalty to all repairs after already going for 5 random rng great skillchecks.
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Yes, that’s what I meant! Thank you! I got them mixed up. Yeah even if it was an OP perk before they did the classic BHVR overnerf. I like the idea of getting the recharge but it takes however many seconds to fully recharge it for use again. Kind of just a Built to Last but it’s a longer wait and no locker necessary so you can keep repairing or doing whatever while you wait.
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I wouldn't mind that if it was a killer dragging things out forever, but I'd hate to reward Blendettes that have been crouching in bushes the whole game without ever touching a gen. The idea of a team of Blendettes waiting to escape for 20 minutes at 5 gens is terrifying.
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So then why not give the buff to the killer so they can take a chase that would otherwise be foolish to take rather than giving survivors a buff for playing poorly?
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They made it sound like it was a system change rather than a perk change. My guess is something like at 1 gen left you get a bonus speed action on repairing if the gens are a certain distance apart.
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The idea is to provide that buff to end the game after an extended stalemate. If you've gone...let's say 5 minutes just chasing survivors off gens... rather than downing anyone, that's not a case of "survivors playing poorly". A killer turning back over and over to kick gens rather than chasing is the only people who would really be affected and that hardly is someone who should get buffed. They're already playing a game of attrition in getting rid of any pallets in the area the longer they can stretch out the situation.
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But why should a killer leave a 3 gen unguarded if the survivors put themselves in that situation? And again, why should the side that made the mistake be the side to get a buff to bail them out of that mistake?
Survivors mains are adamant that if a killer has 4 survivors left after all gens are done then the killer deserves to lose and should accept it, but they also claim if survivors put themselves In 3 gen then the survivors need to accept the loss. It makes no sense to buff survivors for making a game losing mistake.
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obv it would to just be more careful for map design but i would rather bhvr added a mechanic that prevented non-gameplay like this in the future, something like a regression cap on gens.
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First of all, as a survivor main I don’t believe killers deserve to “lose” if all gens are done with 4 left. That’s why we still have to open the gates and the game isn’t over until it’s over. In a case like Made for This + Hope it is a justifiable reward for completing your objectives and obtaining a very strong advantage but that still doesn’t mean the killer is helpless even in that situation. What I don’t like, however, is when killers try to justify camping or slugging to get a kill as if they’re entitled to something. IMO those styles of play are exploits of bad game design. But that’s a topic for another day….
In regards to the 3-gen situation it isn’t always the survivor’s fault. I’ve had games, especially recently with Knight and Skull Merchant, where the killer will locate the 3-gen from the beginning and do nothing but guard it. They don’t have to traverse the map looking for survivors because those other gens don’t matter. They will chase and hook inside that radius but put their focus solely on protecting those gens. It’s far easier for a killer to create a 3-gen on purpose than it is for survivors to do it on accident. My killer play style is heavily focused on gen pressure and while I don’t purposefully create 3-gens it’s often easy to do depending on maps and rng.
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I'd like to see something radical...
Lore-wise, the Entity is an "emotion vampire," which feeds on the Survivors' emotions. The more hopeless a Survivor is, the less useful it is to the Entity. That said, I'd imagine the Entity is displeased with 3-genning, because it makes Survivors feel hopeless.
To restore this hope, the Entity throws Survivors a bone.
Rather than repair a generator, Survivors can (once per trial) appeal to the Entity to move the generator to a new location. In doing so, the generator loses all progress. To appeal to the Entity, you approach the generator you want to relocate and begin the Appeal action using the Secondary Action. The less progress on the generator, the longer the Appeal action takes to complete.
There would be visual queues that let the Killer know you are attempting to relocate the generator, prompting them to take decisive action before their 3-gen is gone.
The relocated generator would reappear at least X meters away from either remaining generator.
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I get what your saying. It's a rookie mistake to do all the gens on 1 side of the map, then realize you screwed the other side. It's also pretty easy for a killer to look around early in the game (as early as when spawning in), see what 3 gens are closest together and make damn sure to not wander too far. I use to do this alot with Doc when I first started, and BOY is it annoying.
That's not "survivors mistake", but rather a pain in the ass strategy a killer can use to create an expanding deadzone around 3 generators, which will EVENTUALLY be the only ones remaining. Survivors have no ability to force a killer away from a generator if said killer refuses to CHASE them beyond a perimeter.
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I think making an already done gen to be available again after a certain time will be the fix
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This.
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Maybe after the killer has kicked a gen X amount of times, it is TPed and replaces the next closest already completed gen - the TPed gen keeps its progress. Its aura is revealed to all survivors and killer for 10 seconds. Repeat this process for every gen that is kicked x times.
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Feel like I can expand on this. What about if we do something similar to Pyramid head's cages. After X kicks to the same gen without getting a down, the gens shuffle.
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I think it will be hard to implement something like that it will encourage people to slug while 3 gening, I think it's should be a time only requirement, and for me i don't like this thing if you don't do X you will be punished by Y imo.
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I mean as a killer main, with the unpopular opinion I don't think rewarding the survivors with things are a solution. Instead lets rework the skull merchants and to a much lesser extent the knights power because let's be honest no one 3 gens like these two killers. As a killer that never purposely 3 gens I should not be punished if survs 3 gen themselves. Split pressure destroys most killers that even try and three gen. If a match hasn't progressed for either side instead of having one side win, no one wins you just get a draw. Most matches should not last more than 25 minutes tops
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Getting a down isnt the problem, the skully in the eternal video got multiple downs and just didn't hook.
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If you can explain how anyone can slug without getting a down, ill agree with you.
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3 gunning has been around for a long time, even b4 those killers were introduced. Eventually the devs are gonna change SOMETHING. I'd much rather them make changes to a game that's the exception and doesn't affect normal gameplay than swinging a nerf bat at killer perks again. The key is to do it in a way that only affects those really dragged out games.
Think of it kinda like AFK crows. No killer is really counting on afk crows as a source of tracking survivors, and in your average game they don't ever come up. They sure are useful for pointing out a survivor who's been in a locker for 10 minutes though, without giving away a survivor who's crouching behind cover for 30 seconds waiting for a good time to get a save.
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My prediction is that they’ll bring back hatch for multiple people if a match goes on for 30+ minutes
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That's typically the case in a fight for attrition. Survivors are going to have to take more and more riskier plays because the remaining pallets are fewer and fewer. The killer will start ramping up damage the larger the deadzone gets. The hope though is to provide a solution before it gets TOO skewed.
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there is a killer perk for anti-blendettes. that killer perk is whispers. you can use it to triangulate any survivors position. It is just that killer are not willing to spend perk slot to counter blendettes play-style. The blendettes escaping with key is not gaining any MMR. they just playing for a draw. The killer only experiences an emotional loss.
Hatch in general seems like it was designed to break stalemates and draws. the issue is that it used to count as survivors escaping because of old emblem system that relied on one of the emblems to hook and kill survivors and that very old generator emblem where you could gen-rush the killer then use the key to depip the killer in a toxic way.
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I understand tracking perks exist. I still don't think offering the hatch to a team who isn't interested in touching generators at all is a good idea.
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Ah yes, a killer of culture who has not experienced a killer who refuses to leave a 3 gen area. Survivors can easily finish 4 gens on the rest of the map but anytime they go near 3 close gens the chase begins and ends once survivor leaves that area. BORING
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One method I can think of at the moment:
Old Car Battery - Item
An Old Car Battery and connecting cables coiled in the handle. Seems dead, with an odd crimson rust. Found in The Basement.
While carrying the Battery, you have the “Siphon Power” prompt when near a Powered generator.
This prompt has the Survivor connect the cables on the battery to the Powered Generator, causing an explosion on the generator and regressing it completely, alerting the Killer, but causing the Old Car Battery to become a Charged Battery.
The Charged Battery gives the “Jump Start” prompt when near an unpowered generator, which when performed via the same animation above, will instantly complete the Generator.
Getting hit while holding the battery will cause it to drop. Carrying the Battery will Hinder the Survivor.
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4 survivors shouldn't have a problem breaking a 3 gen even when the killer is patrolling it. Survivors usually don't take the time to figure out they're locking themselves into a 3 gen until they've already done it. Maps like Suffocation Pit are a perfect example of this. Survivors will spend all game running to one side of the map while the others do all gens on the opposite side, then lose the match because of it and run to the forums demanding the devs change the game so they can continue to play recklessly.
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sure but how often do you play a match for 30 minutes or in skull merchant case. 50 minutes? I would like to think that that playing matches past 30 minutes is rare. you also have to consider at what point should killer consider himself losing? Is there a point where killer should lose if he does not kill survivors in x time? it is certainly something you do not think about when playing DBD. This is likely because stalemate in dbd are uncommon but like every game, a stalemate can occur.
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I think @LordGlint ’s point is that spawning hatch after X time just flips the script.
Instead of the Killer holding the game hostage, the Survivors get to hold the game hostage.
At the end of the day, it doesn’t solve the problem.
4 Survivors playing hide-and-go seek for 30 min, because it will spawn hatch, is no better than a Killer patrolling their 3 gen.
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ah I see. it begs question what survivor objective is. if you think survivor objective is completing all 5 generators then you need make it possible to complete 5 generators however you could say that the survivor objective is not completing 5 generator but instead surviving the killer for x time. Completing 5 generators makes it so you have to survive for less time but if you do not repair generators then there is supposedly risk that you give the killer a lot of time to kill you. it just depends what you subjectively believe is goal for survivor when it comes to escaping a killer.
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That is the case sometimes, and other times the killer can easily force that. The order in which gens are completed does not matter if the killer is playing around a 3 gen from the start and never leaves that area. I don't know if people just aren't that experienced in the game and have never run into it, or they're so bunkered down into their favored side that they can't acknowledge it. I can put on Corrupt, load into half the maps in the game, and have a 3 gen before the survivors have even moved.
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Identity V 's afk crows also have a second "didnt touch gen in x seconds"-timer, if i remember correctly.
Maybe somthing like that could help?
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Better map gen spawns would be the way - space them out more evenly. Coding is an issue because of trying to distance them is a problem, according to feedback. I suggested they do something like they do with the hooks, which is to have a minimum distance put in but somehow this cannot be done (design flaw).
However, this would be the better way. They just need to do this and completely rework Skull Merchant. If survivors rush to finish generators without due care to how they are spread, the onus is on them and not the game. Likewise, a killer should never be designed to make camping a 3 gen at the start nearly impossible. It's an obscene design.
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Maybe give Deja Vu (that's the perk that senses a 3-gen, right?) a secondary action to siphon the power from a completed generator to one of the ones within the 3-gen?
You use the perk to interact with a completed gen across the map for x amount of seconds, highlighting it white for the other survivors, and then interact with one of the 3-genned ones for x amount of seconds to get it to say...80% completion? If you manage to get the remaining 20% then it completes that generator, but deactivates the one you siphoned the power from.
There would still be 1 more generator to complete now, but it would be across the map (and since it was highlighted everyone should have an idea of where it is.)
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Given their awful solutions for slugging and camping, it’ll probably be something terrible like “a generator completes itself.”
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I'd be ok with something similar, but you have to be real careful with it. There's going to be other things to do in the trial than gens. Would really suck to get screwed over because you've been doing back to back altruistic actions like unhook and heals for example.
I'd rather have it closer to detecting when ppl arnt doing anything that can be even argued as progressing the game in the most widest view possible. Steve hasn't done gens in abit but... hey... at least he broke a dull totem. He's countering NOED, lol. I wouldn't have the system screw over Steve. If Steve didn't even do THAT though...sure.
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I think it's abit of both. Some people can be willfully blind to problems because it helps "there side". When DS was in its prime and you'd have ppl cranking out gens or breaking your totems while being untouchable... You get hit with a 59 sec DS and on the forums ppl will INSIST you must've been tunneling. How can you have any meaningful conversation?
As for the whole 3 gen thing... When I first started playing this game, I learned about the concept from YouTube and would be VERY obnoxious about defending whatever gens were closest to each other as soon as the match started. That's not a survivor misplay, that was my whole strategy. I REALLY sucked at chases back then too, but doesn't matter much since by the time there's just 1 gen left, there's no pallets in that whole area left.
I'd have some long games... Imagine trying to get anything accomplished against an OG Doc who could put you in madness 3 over and over by EXISTING on the same side of the map as you, lol.
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They need to kill switch SM, I have had several (the same one a couple of times) who are intentionally not hooking you when you're on DH and holding a 3 gen to hold you hostage in game. The only solution is to DC or be stuck in an hour long nightmare where they can essentially hold you hostage since they wont sacrifice you.
The 3 gen situation with SM is beyond insane at this point
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Knowing BHVR its gonna be probably bigger maps with more spread gens.
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