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Do you think BHVR will fix Chess Merchant?

Question is on title.

I honestly don't know. If they are not gonna full-rework her power, she will always be problem and hold 3 gens.

We need Freddy level rework for her.

Comments

  • Sharby
    Sharby Member Posts: 498

    They will but this is probably an unforseen development.


    I'd imagine they have a ton of stuff with higher priority so I wouldn't expect anything this year since it's not critical enough to disrupt current workflow.


    Next year is a lot more likely since there are probably other early-dev projects they can bump down to put an SM rework in.

  • ReverseVelocity
    ReverseVelocity Member Posts: 4,676

    I'd imagine she's going to get bumped up the priority list due to the number of complaints about her.

  • Sharby
    Sharby Member Posts: 498

    Meh, as much as I detest her, putting myself in BHVR's shoes for a moment, is fixing her really that important? She's not exactly super popular playwise, and I doubt people are quitting the game a lot over her (at least not more than other stuff.)

    Telling their dev teams to stop working on already established projects to suddenly start working on a killer rework, something that I'd imagine takes a lot of money and time, doesn't seem like a smart use of their finite resources. Especially because it would invariably push something they outlined on their Anniversary roadmap off-course.

    I'd say her rework will most likely come sometime after the last project they detailed on their roadmap is released or close to that mark.

  • ReverseVelocity
    ReverseVelocity Member Posts: 4,676

    They have shown before that a large amount of negative feedback can end up having changes expedited. A lot of people universally hate the Skull Merchant's 3 Gen playstyle, and she is so good at it that it's caused BHVR to evaluate options as to how to prevent these excessively long matches with a base mechanic.

    I think the whole fiasco with that one game with Eternal, and the wave of feedback that was sparked because of it, might have put her more on their radar too.

    There's no way to say for sure though, none of us work there.

  • nars
    nars Member Posts: 1,124

    I have zero clue how this could be unforseen. killers take a year to make and somehow nobody thought that this was a bad idea.

  • Sharby
    Sharby Member Posts: 498

    I agree and for me personally, I'd rather have things like Player Cards vs a Skull Merchant Rework (both ideally) simply because there are already tools to deal with SM games (forbidden or otherwise,) but there are no alternatives to new features/content.

    Its definitely not outside the realm of possibility.

    I hesitate to say filler chapter because I'm sure the production and manpower costs were equivalent to any other chapter, but ToT def feels like it was a filler chapter that they expected people to forget about, even compared to End Transmission it just feels oddly soulless and uninspired.

  • HamsterEnjoyer
    HamsterEnjoyer Member Posts: 774

    All they need to do is make it so the border of her drones cant come within 8 meters of a generator but remove the distance limit she has when placing drones otherwise.

    She stays effective in creating dangerous zones and people cant scream about her magical 3 gens anymore bada bing bada boom

  • edgarpoop
    edgarpoop Member Posts: 8,527

    I agree, but I think we probably view the game differently as players than the devs view it. We think of the game differently and focus on different things. Our first thought with a killer power is "what does this power look like and how does it function when it's optimized?". Their first thoughts are most likely about ease of use for a new player, functionality, etc. And there are probably less than a dozen people on the dev team with an MMR at or above the cap. They can't even see that sort of functionality until after the PTB.

  • MikaelaWantsYourBoon
    MikaelaWantsYourBoon Member Posts: 6,564

    Things like that makes me believe they have no testers in office.

  • squbax
    squbax Member Posts: 1,511

    I actuallly think they have testers, but their imagination only goes so far as bhvr tell them, so they probably used dull merchant to put trackers on survivors and put drones to scout, they do not think like a dbd player does, so they never even tought of thr posibility of the horrible gameplay that she has.

    This can be good with killers like blight or wesker who by the testers playing the simplest way possible they have overlooked issues that make them incredibly fun and raise their skill ceilling.

    Or bad in the case of knight and cringe merchant were they overlooked a flawed design, or singularity that showed testers do not know how to play survivor in an efficient way, so they thought EMPs were ok.

    However I think unlike popular belief they DO test a lot of technical issues, like people will joke about how suddendly clown doesn't work in an update thats unfelated to him but never stop to realize the amount of debugging and testing that goes into adding new mechanics such as weskers bound or singularitys verticallity in cameras.

  • nars
    nars Member Posts: 1,124

    While a fair point it just doesnt make sense how playtesters didnt immediately see red flags. Do the playtesters play dbd on live? SMs existence makes me feel like they dont if neither the survivor or killer playtesters realizes her anti loop 3 gen design flaws.

  • edgarpoop
    edgarpoop Member Posts: 8,527

    Don't get me wrong, I agree with you. I think it's a huge problem that killers like SM make it to live. I just think their playtesting goals are very different than our playtesting goals as players, and that's the problem they're having. It's cynical game design. They alluded to it in a post the other day. The killer is realistically going to have a ~3% pick rate, so even if it's problematic in the hands of some players, they don't care overly much.

  • ReikoMori
    ReikoMori Member Posts: 3,333

    Playtesting isn't really meant to catch deviant strategies, but to find bugs. Playtesters are functionally playing the game with a different set of objectives than the average player. That is the reason PTBs exists which is more useful at catching balance outliers created by average players do what average players do. It's the different between seeing how someone uses a set of tools compared to making sure the tools don't instantly explode or make something else fail.

    They would have seen the possibility of this in internal testing, but it takes people playing the game on a large scale to see how far something can go. They did attempt to make small but meaningful changes to get people to not play like this. Yet, it wasn't enough whether your view is people wanting easy wins/griefing or that every other playstyle is less effective.

  • CrusaderNella
    CrusaderNella Member Posts: 331

    Checkmate

  • BlueHorkew
    BlueHorkew Member Posts: 1,081

    I will go with no, but i would be impressed if i am wrong.

    Killers take 1 year to create as we are told. Not only bhvr created this killer not thinking or seeing how people would play, even tho they know of perks and patches that are coming to the game.

    Second, what would they gain with a massive rework, i don't know if they can ever remove the 3 gen of her identity without new stuff "like a freddy rework", but would they gain from that.

    She is a free character and original, so i don't see what bhvr would gain by wasting many resources to update her to level that she would need.

    Freddy was licensed and a pop cultural icon, updating him would make some sense.

    They can surprise, but not putting much hope on it right now.

  • ReikoMori
    ReikoMori Member Posts: 3,333

    She's definitely not free, Tools of Torment is a chapter with one killer and 2 survivors. We paid good money for this chapter.

  • DY86
    DY86 Member Posts: 570

    Yup. The reason behind this is: Devs don’t play DBD. Both the Knight and SM are awfully designed. And if anyone told me they took morr than a week to make I wouldn’t believe them

  • C3Tooth
    C3Tooth Member Posts: 8,266
  • mizark3
    mizark3 Member Posts: 2,255

    I think its fine for her to be able to throw drones on gens. I think the problem stems from if a Survivor takes the time and effort to hack the drone, SM can instantly replace that drone with no effort.

    If someone hacks a drone, it should leave a phantom zone where a drone cannot be placed until the original is returned to the SM's inventory. This would force her to chase down the Survivor and hook them, in order to be able to defend that spot again. It still gives SM an advantage against them (haste+exposed potential), but forces the SM to actually play the game instead of turtling.

    I would even argue that with the above change, allow Survivors to keep shoulder drones indefinitely, and they can remove it with the DDR minigame again whenever they want (maybe have to do it multiple times if recently shouldered, with each minigame removing the 15s dot until none remain, then it removes the drone proper). The SM in return can recall a shoulder drone after the current 45s, or 0 dots remain. That way both sides have agency in dealing with their problems.

  • solarjin1
    solarjin1 Member Posts: 2,275
  • altruistic
    altruistic Member Posts: 1,141

    With Behaviours history, give it a few years. However I can see her being fully reworked at some point.

  • Pulsar
    Pulsar Member Posts: 21,036
    edited July 2023

    You chose to pay for the Chapter.


    The chapter was able to be bought with Iri Shards, which I highly recommend doing, makes zero sense to pay real money for a Chapter when you don't need to. 9K isn't even that much either.


    I also wouldn't use the, "We paid for the chapter, so it's false advertising for BHVR to change it to something we don't like". I've seen this numerous times in the past, it simply isn't true

  • appleas
    appleas Member Posts: 1,129
    edited July 2023

    Ask yourself truthfully if current SM is enough to make you quit DBD and stop buying cosmetics until she gets changed.

    If the answer is no, then that means she isn’t going to be that high on the priority list for a remake.

    If the answer is yes, then the next question is whether the amount of people who share the same sentiment would be statistically significant.

    Now imagine the community response if devs announced that one of their Licensed Killers would be delayed till next year because they had to remake SM.

    The premise that SM causes so much grief that everything should be dropped to remake her is so silly.

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  • LordGlint
    LordGlint Member Posts: 8,729

    I'm just imagining bhvr throwing shade during a Q&A. "Yeah, we actually got the Jason license this year and we were ALMOST done working on it... but thanks to THIS forum thread right here, we decided the game was going to die if we didn't immediately focus on SM. Once again, if someone didn't see it, it was THIS thread that did it. Real shame too, because Jason was gonna ride around on a Xenomorph, and the survivor for the chapter was gonna be Chuck Norris."

  • ReikoMori
    ReikoMori Member Posts: 3,333
    edited July 2023

    I didn't say anything about them in regards to making changes. Unlike a lot of folks I've read the EULA enough to understand that I don't "own" anything. I want them to make changes to her anyway so she can be more engaging instead of living and dying based on whether or not survivors choose to engage with her drones.

    I was replying to someone who said that her chapter was free which is just factually incorrect no matter if you got via cash or spent shards for 3 characters. I don't play enough to have enough shards to buy whole a killer these days cause I can't stop buying weapons for Legion. I'm a sucker for neon colored kerambit or improvised stabby boi. I also like to just buy dlc bundles because for me it usually makes sense financially. Now if you want to talk about a killer that was free, I feel like Huntress was free at some point.

    For reference I will play at most like 5 games a session depending on how I'm feeling since I have no friends who want to play this game on a regular basis. I play more during anniversaries which usually burns me out pretty quick so right now I have around 3 to 3.5k shards

  • Pulsar
    Pulsar Member Posts: 21,036

    Huntress, Hag and Doctor are all free on Console.

    Not sure about PC.

  • BlueHorkew
    BlueHorkew Member Posts: 1,081

    Shards are free, i got both survivors that way. Licensed characters you don't have a choice, you have to pay. That's what i am refering.

  • Tsulan
    Tsulan Member Posts: 15,095

    Since full reworks take a lot of time and there are killers which have been longer around, that still require that rework (looking at the Twins). I´d say we can see maybe a rework in 2-3 years.

    Remember that the devs want to get away from 3 gens but also released several 3 gen killers in succesion.

  • humanbeing1704
    humanbeing1704 Member Posts: 8,998

    I predict they’ll do a drastic change that puts skull merchant into dumpster tier so they can pretend they never designed her

  • Chordyceps
    Chordyceps Member Posts: 1,716

    I wish they would, but it feels a lot more likely that they'll just rework her addons and/or nerf the perks that assist the three gen strats.

  • jesterkind
    jesterkind Member Posts: 8,070

    We already know they're planning something, though we don't know when it'll be.

    I certainly hope it isn't a Freddy-tier rework, though. On top of that not being necessary at all, it's fundamentally a bad idea and they should never do it again.

  • Xendritch
    Xendritch Member Posts: 1,842

    They've confirmed they have something planned the question is what and when will we get it. It would be hilarious if this was yet another thing that get slotted ahead the twins rework.

    I honestly think it could considering nobody really talks about Twins much. My guess is next midchapter and if not probably won't happen until early next year considering chapter 30 midchapter is gonna be around the holidays and they probably won't wanna do so much for that since if something breaks they won't be able to do anything about it until after the break.