A change for Onryo to smooth out the polarisation.
Condemnation Proposal
Nerf: Projecting to a TV inflicts 0.5 condemn stack globally to all survivors not carrying tape.
Buff: Projecting to a TV inflicts an additional 0.5 condemn stack to all survivors within 16m, regardless of whether they have a tape or not.
Current Gameplay
Onryo is quite polarising with the latest changes.
In soloQ/low MMR games she is a hefty pub stomp, porting around kinda mindlessly and building up condemn to easily nuke an uncoordinated team.
At high MMR however, Sadako struggles to get going, because survivors just grab a tape immediately, limiting her teleports and shutting down condem completely. Instead she has to chase them down to remove the tape from even one survivor, and since she isnt amazing in chase, she can struggle to keep up her pressure. Usually what helps her here is indoor maps that make finding gens harder.
Intended effect
The hope with this change is bringing back some of the skill elements of old Sadako. Greater rewards for good teleport prediction/usage, while simulataneously limiting the global condemn presense.
With only the global portion of the condemn blocked by tapes, Sadako can still apply condemn pressure to survivors carrying tapes at higher MMR where players know what they're doing.
And at lower MMR, she can get even bigger threats of condemn for good usage of her teleport... but she can't as easily just port around the map blindly and get huge condemn pressure for it.
What do you think?
Comments
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Great suggestion I hope the team takes it on board
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Sounds really nice! I like this idea a lot
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This would make her rework feel a LOT better. It would bring back some things I’ve been missing about old Sadako, and help her unbelievably strong state against solo squads while bringing back some skill expression. If they made this change I would stop whining about her haha
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This would be beautiful, give us back some of our skill expression while retaining the nice map normalization of global condemned. If they nerfed other things along with this (maybe have tape destruction inflict less or no condemned or something) it could work well...
oh and also revert reiko's watch thanks
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from a killer standpoint I really like the idea and it would make her play a little more like old Sadako who was loved by many killer players.
However, the 0,5 global condemned isn’t enough to lower her killrate in solo q/low mmr. It would just mean they are all dead at 3 gens instead of 4. It is fairly easy to keep your tvs turned off and deny newer players from picking up tapes, that is if they can find an active tv in the first place before it’s too late.
I believe the best and healthiest option would be to scrap this rework. Bring back old Sadako and rework iri tape and ringdrawing(the main thing that made survivors hate her) and buff her tv cooldowns. Perhaps make all her useless addons actually worth using.
I doubt the devs even read or care about any of these posts though. I saw so many well written and thought out feedback since the ptb. Feedback left by people who really understood and played her. Most of the feedback predicted exactly what would happened if it went live - newer players would get demolished and Sadako would struggle even more in top mmr.
Many Sadako mains spent HOURS writing the devs this amazing and constructive feedback but the devs didn’t respond to a single post. Not a single word. The lack of transparency from the devs is actually quite upsetting. Hell, they never even explained the reason why she got reworked in the first place. What was the reason behind Reikos Watch nerf btw?
I full heartedly believe the devs doesn’t really care about what any of us write on here unless it’s some game breaking bug. They only seem to make changes based on statistics and not actual player feedback from the people who have spent thousands of hours on a single character and probably understand them better than the devs do in practice.
I might be wrong about all this but how can I know when the devs are completely silent.
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You mentioned it absolutely correct: condemn napalm for weak teams and terrible against strong, that are good at chase, and she has no chase power.
What about:
Nerf - 0.5 condemn, no objection
Buff - some chase power:
- walking through pallets/windows while demanifested OR
- manifesting wraith short speed boost OR
- quicker manifestation without speed penalty OR
- enhanced "Wallpaper" (like 2-3 seconds with very long flickering intervals).
0 -
You're not wrong tbh regarding low/solo players still struggling, but I think after she's been out a while, majority of players will catch on to grabbing a tape early. They'll see other players do it, and it'll become more common knowledge... its not quite as complicated as trying to learn to loop at Z walls on the edge of the map vs. Nurse.
I think this change is healthy in general though... it at least slows down the snowball to give a chance to realise "Oh crap... maybe I should grab a tape...". Plus it opens the door for other potential number tweaks if needed, but the core principle of skill over dumb porting is a good move I feel regardless.
Overall rework considerations:
The issue really for low MMR players is whereas before the correct answer vs. Sadako was to NOT grab a tape, and let her shut down her TVs herself for the extra 40secs... this meant someone who was oblivious was actually doing the right thing by accident... which probably did need to go xD
With the changes, she is now like the Cenobite really. Low level players don't know how the box/tapes work, and the snowball potential is really high... so they get crushed by it. Thing is a good player can resolve the box for the team, but vs. this Sadako you are forced to managed your own condemned well... and noone can help you do it xD
I suppose the question is, how much slack do you wanna give to players about ignoring side objectives really? I mean even the Pig's power confuses a lot of low level players, and I think you'd be hard pressed to say the Pig should not be made more viable at higher MMR because low players can't gauge a timer to their death.
I suppose my point is, everyone keeps saying survivors need more to do than just gens... when a Killer (who doesnt excel in chase) makes you do side objectives, I don't think the solution is to kill the side objective (old Onryo tapes were a minor inconvenience most of the time unless Sadako was a teleport God). Overall I see potential in this rework... I don't think it should just be scrapped 😏
Post edited by UndeddJester on0 -
I like this a lot. It's been miserable playing against new Sadako in solo queue since the update, and I think this kind of change would help a lot.
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